Talk:Thami El Glaoui

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Thami El Glaoui article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Biography: Military / Politics and Government

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Berbers Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Berbers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Berbers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BerbersWikipedia:WikiProject BerbersTemplate:WikiProject BerbersBerbers articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

History Low‑importance

	History portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject History, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of History on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Historyhistory articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Morocco Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Morocco, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Morocco on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MoroccoWikipedia:WikiProject MoroccoTemplate:WikiProject MoroccoMorocco articles

Low

This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Help expand the project:

You can help! يمكنكم أن تساهموا

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : Mounir Charïbi
Assess : Rate the Unassessed Morocco articles and Unknown-importance Morocco-related articles.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to articles in Category:Morocco articles missing geocoordinate data
Photo : See requested photographs in Morocco
Stubs : Morocco stubs
Other :
- Translate from Arabic: Sellam Ameziane, Mrebih Rebbu

Untitled

In spite of S710's stating he is "removing some POV" his major edit is to insert some argument from a supposed historian Victor A. Vyssotsky. Said person is not an historian, but a mathematician who has done some book reviewing on Amazon.com, and what S710 has inserted is some material from one of his reviews of a book on Morocco by C. R. Pennell. As Pennell's book was published prior to Abdessadek El Glaoui's biography of his father, which contains some essential material, it is hardly definitive ... in any case, it is most definitely "POV" as is most history. Hence I have reverted S710's edits. MisterCDE 04:25, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

PS: "He is almost universally reviled in Morocco as a traitor" is not a POV, its a fact. "He is a traitor" is a POV but that's not what I said. MisterCDE 04:39, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You can mention an opinion if you state whose opinion it is. "universally reviled as a ‘collabo’ (collaborationist with the French Protectorate)" The source for his 'fact' ? S710 13:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dude, no article in Wikipedia is so densely documented that every sentence is referenced. If you want to find out about what Moroccans think about El Glaoui, try Googling on "collabo" and "glaoui". And please don't add anything by Vyssotsky, his opinion is merely a POV occasioned by having lived in Morocco during part of the same period as El Glaoui, a review on Amazon.com is not an expert opinion or reference of any credbility. MisterCDE 02:42, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't pretend that Vyssotsky's opinion is the truth, but Wikipedia has a policy of letting different opinions be heard, even if they are biased. If Amazon considers him expert enough to write the review, he has credibility enough to cite his opinion. If you can give more background to his opinion please add it. A strong statement "universally reviled as a ‘collabo’" should have a source. If there so much material please cite one.S710 08:55, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thought about it. I agree with you. Vyssotsky's opinion on Glaoui's motives is pure speculation. Sounds rather like looking for an excuse. I deleted it.S710 09:56, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks S710. Also I apologize for being a bit flamey and calling you "dude"! What I will do is put some stuff in (may be over next couple of days) about the Glaoui's motives as seen by his son Abdessadeq, who was in a unique position to know (although disagreeing with them) and to appreciate them from a cultural standpoint which Western historians might have missed. I do this because Abdessadeq's biography of his father is not widely available to English-speaking readers, so it should hold some interest. MisterCDE 03:43, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Decided to put in a major rewrite of this article. Hopefully it is not too long now and meets with general approval. MisterCDE 04:14, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

el-Madani

It seems like a large portion of the introduction is talking about Thami's elder brother Si el-Madani. Perhaps this page should be split into an entry for el-Madani.