Talk:Thistle tortoise beetle

Wiki Education assignment: Behavioral Ecology 2024

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 January 2024 and 25 April 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Justinxuje (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Justinxuje (talk) 21:07, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

2/29/24 Revision to article

Justinxuje (talk) 05:14, 1 March 2024 (UTC) Hi! I'm a student in a behavioral ecology class. I made revisions to this article by adding more behavioral information regarding to oviposition, parental care, defense mechanisms. I also expanded this article with additional sections including predators, parasitism, and human interactions. Finally, I added some photos to show what the larva, shield defense mechanism, thistle plants, and biological control agent studies look like. Please feel free to leave any suggestions or feedback! I am excited to continue contributing to wikipedia and improving this article throughout the semester.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by reviewer, closed by AirshipJungleman29 talk 19:24, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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Thistle beetle with its shield

• ... that the thistle tortoise beetle (pictured) uses its own feces to build a mobile shield to protect itself from predators? Source: Eisner, Thomas; van Tassell, Eileen; Carrel, James E. (1967-12-15). "Defensive Use of a "Fecal Shield" by a Beetle Larva". Science. 158 (3807): 1471–1473. Bibcode:1967Sci...158.1471E. doi:10.1126/science.158.3807.1471. ISSN 0036-8075. PMID 6058687. S2CID 23033169.
  • Reviewed:

5x expanded by Justinxuje (talk). Self-nominated at 05:39, 1 March 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Thistle tortoise beetle; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• I forgot to change the status of this article to 5x expanded. Would it be possible to modify it now or should I submit a new nomination? Justinxuje (talk) 14:54, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

In theory, you can just change 'created' to '5x expanded', which I've done. However, I've checked, and this is just under 5x (it was 2897 on 9 February and it's now 12713). I'd keep writing or nominate it for WP:GA.--Launchballer 15:54, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

• @Launchballer: The nominator hasn't edited since the 5th and a 5x expansion has not been accomplished. The nom is part of a WikiEd class that runs through April. Should we wait for them to return or should the nomination be marked for closure? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 14:12, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

I think by the time April rolls around, it will have been more than four weeks, and I don't think it's reasonable to wait that long. I say leave it another couple of days, and then close this with a strong recommendation for Justinxuje to put this through GA.--Launchballer 00:08, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Given the lack of a response from the nominator it unfortunately doesn't seem like there's a path forward for this nomination as of this time. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:45, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

The article is currently undergoing a GA review, so I would keep this open for another week at least while it is being worked on by Justinxuje in response to the reviewer's comments. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:36, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Article Comment

This Wikipedia entry is incredibly comprehensive and a delightful read! I was particularly intrigued by their role as biological control agents and how they fit into their ecological niche. The use of media in this article is excellent, and they greatly enhance the reading experience by breaking up the text and making it more engaging. The well-organized sections also make the information easy to understand. I made only minor edits to sentence structure, such as condensing sentences for clarity. I also added a section detailing the taxonomic information a little more JacksonPanWashU (talk) 04:14, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Review for Behavioral Ecology

I really enjoyed this article on the tortoise beetle. It is well written and detailed. Since the Migration section is very minimal, it might be better to integrate that section into the life cycle section, unless there is more information about migration of these beetles. A question I had while reading the Mating section was whether the flagellum of the beetle is the same flagellum as the eukaryotic flagellum article that was linked. Since the article seemed to be lacking on behaviors of the tortoise beetle, I looked through some papers but was unable to find anything more than what was already written about. I made some minor edits to help the readability of the article in the interactions with humans sections. Jaden.l17 (talk) 11:20, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Article Comment

Hey, I just took a look at your article and made a few changes. I thought it was really well written, with great images to accompany the information. The edits I made were relatively minor: rewording part of the life cycle section for clarity, rearranging the image order (putting nymph next to life cycle), and adding a journal name to one of your sources.

NHanselman (talk) 21:54, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Thistle tortoise beetle/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Justinxuje (talk · contribs)

Reviewer: Fritzmann2002 (talk · contribs) 13:36, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

I'll be starting a review hopefully sometime this weekend! Fritzmann (message me) 13:36, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks so much! Justinxuje (talk) 13:49, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

First Review

My apologies for the delay! Life happened, unfortunately. Please respond to each point individually when you have addressed it; I will go through the article from beginning to end. I have taken the liberty to make some minor writing, grammar, and style changes, as well as changing the sections to the standard organization for this kind of article. Please feel free to revert any change you don't agree with or want to discuss! Fritzmann (message me) 14:55, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

No worries! Thanks for all the feedback. I will work on each point throughout the next 7 days. Justinxuje (talk) 14:58, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Lead

• I notice you sometimes refer to the species as just "thistle beetle". Is this another accepted name? If so you should mention that and bold it the first time it is used
  • Replaced "thislte beetle" to "thislte tortoise beetle"
• In most cases "this [x]" should be avoided in preference of just "the [x]"
  • Fixed
• I recommend combining the sentences that begin with "This beetle exhibits multiple defense behaviors..." and "The shield and excretion provide..."
  • Fixed
• "Its ability to massively consume and damage" is there another way to phrase this?
• There should not be any references in the lead paragraph; I've removed a few that have repeated information later on, but the last sentence still has two. I recommend expanding on this info in the body using the same references, then summarizing it in the lead and removing the references from there.
  • Fixed
• As we go through the review, we will have to make sure that everything in the body of the article is briefly summarized in the lead. Readers should be able to just look at the lead, without reading the rest of the article, and still have a good idea of what it is about
• The taxonomy parts of the lead should probably be moved to its own section. The article Tansy beetle has an example of what that would look like

Description

• We will probably need to expand this section somewhat. Have you found the original description by Muller in 1776? Have there been any more complete descriptions since then? I recommend looking at Biodiversity Heritage Library and using some of the articles listed at that link. It's good stuff!
• Should be split in two, with one part for larvae and one for adults
• What are the differences between male and female beetles, if any?
• I like how you use common traits among Cassida species for the description. Are there more commonalities you can include?

Ecology

• The first sentence of "Diet" is unreferenced. What other non-thistle species do the beetles eat?
• "The larvae wait until the thistle plants grow by 30%", 30% with respect to what? Same question for the nitrogen
• I think the "Diet" section should be split into two paragraphs: one for larval feeding and one for adult feeding
• The symbiosis with Stammera is really interesting! We may have to come back and expand on that, and it could make for a solid DYK
• "Enemies" should be replaced with "predators" or "parasites" as applicable
• "Oftentimes, the egg excreta after being laid that engulfs the eggs are able to protect them from predators that target them" I think this was first mentioned in the lead. A full explanation should be given here for context and flow, with references
• "larvae's shield" I don't think this has been discussed yet, would definitely need to be included in the description
• "coccinellid beetles with short mandibles had trouble attacking thistle beetles but they weren't able to protect themselves against those with longer or shorter mandibles" double check this sentence
• "fly found in Virginia in Maryland", and Maryland?

Behavior

• "Adult thistle beetles are univoltine" what does this mean?
• "Oviposition depends on many conditions, ranging from rain and wind to temperature and the length of the day" explain how all those things affect oviposition
• "Females usually lay their eggs on the bottom of the leaf, which occurs at higher frequencies than the topside of the leaf and the stem" the second half of this sentence is redundant
• "This is thought" by whom? "It was found" by whom? We call these phrases weasel words, and they should be avoided in general; definitely remove, replace, or explain any you find
• Is there any more information on their hibernation behavior?
• The reproduction paragraph is also really interesting! Is there any more information on the actual behavior of reprouduction? When do the beetles mate? Do they have mating rituals? Do males mate with multiple females? And so on

Life cycle

• I notice the life cycle section ends after the larvae. What about the adult portion of life? How long is that?
• The third paragraph of this section probably belongs in the predators/parasites section, since it deals with that instead of the actual life cycle

As biological control

• The beginning of this section is a little unclear with when it is talking about the thistle plant vs thisle beetle
• Rest of the section is good! May come back to it later to nitpick a bit more but broad sweeps show it's really solid

Overall Overall, we have some work to do but a strong foundation and core! That was my first sweep, so work to complete those points. I'll go through with a finer comb after that, and also check the references to make sure that source-text integrity is good. There is definitely more info on this beetle, and GAN requires that an article be at least "broad", if not "complete". I can help you through the process, if you have more questions just let me know! 14:55, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

@Justinxuje: just wanted to make sure you are still working on this, otherwise I will close the nomination and the article can be re-nominated later. Let me know if I can give you any other assistance! Fritzmann (message me) 18:52, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

@Fritzmann2002 I apologize for the delay. I am finishing up another beetle article that was assigned for the class and submitting that one tonight. Afterwards, I can work on these fixes by the end of this weekend. Would that be okay? Justinxuje (talk) 04:01, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Justinxuje that's perfectly fine, no rush. I just wanted to double check it was still on your radar! Fritzmann (message me) 14:41, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Justinxuje, following up again. If no progress is made in the next day or two I will close the nomination and it can be re-opened as a new nomination later. Fritzmann (message me) 01:37, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

I apologize. I am beginning my revisions now. Justinxuje (talk) 23:19, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Justinxuje, I am closing the review for now due to lack of activity recently. It can be re-opened at any time! Fritzmann (message me) 22:43, 28 April 2024 (UTC)