Talk:Timeline of Bloody Sunday (1972)

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Untitled

Although this is clearly entitled a Narrative of events of Bloody Sunday, I think perhaps it should also be explicitly stated upfront that quite a lot of the material contained in this article has been sourced from the now discredited Widgery tribunal. Although the Widgery tribunal report has been cited in the footnotes, I think it is somewhat misleading not to also make it clear, in the title of the article and/or in section headings, that a great deal of this narrative is based on the discredited report. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gem diamond (talk • contribs) 01:09, 16 June 2010

Generally speaking, Widgery's narrative of events is accurate. It is only when he begins to draw conclusions about whether or not people were armed that his report is seen as a whitewash. O Fenian (talk) 09:12, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That was precisely my reasoning when I originally put the narrative together, which is also why I made it clear that the soldiers' claims of who the were shooting at is what they said at the Tribunal. In any case, it was always intended that this would be astop-gap pending the Saville Report. In light of the latter, clearly some revision is needed, as the attribution of shots to specific soldiers is different in Saville. There may actually be some merit in doing a table showing each victim and the source/s of the shots. Nick Cooper (talk) 10:36, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Saville Vs Widgery

This is a comparison of the attribution of shots in the Widgery's report, compared to Saville's. Note that Widgery did not go into specific detail with most of the injured, and did not include amongst the injured three people that Saville did.

VICTIM	K/I	WIDGERY	SAVILLE
Damien Donaghy	I	Soldiers A and/or B, in mistaken belief Donaghy was throwing nail-bombs	Corporal A and/or Private B, in mistaken belief Donaghy was throwing nail-bombs
John Johnson	DOW	As above	As above
Alana Burke	I		Struck by Sergeant O's APC
Thomas Harkin	I		Struck by Sergeant O's APC
John Francis Duddy	K	Soldier V, "intended for someone else."	Probably Private R
Margaret Deery	I		Probably Lance Corporal V
Michael Bridge	I		Probably Lieutenant N
Michael Bradley	I		Probably Private Q
Patrick McDaid	I		Sergeant O, Private R and/or Private S - injured by debris from shots
Pius McCarron	I	Not in injured list	Sergeant O, Private R and/or Private S - injured by debris from shots
Patrick Brolly	I	Not in injured list	Possibly Private S, but probably Private T - not aimed at
Michael Kelly	K	Soldier F (ballistics) - "close to someone using a firearm"	Lance Corporal F
William Noel Nash	K	Possibly Soldier P - had discharged a firearm	One certainly by Coporal P, if not all; another may have been Lance Corporal J, the third Corporal E
John Pius Young	K	Any of the paratroopers at Kells Walk (i.e. P, J, U, C, K, L or M) - had discharged a firearm	As above
Michael McDaid	K	Any of the paratroopers at Kells Walk (i.e. P, J, U, C, K, L or M) - "in close proximity to someone firing"	As above
Hugh Pius Gilmore	K	Any of the paratroopers at Kells Walk - "no evidence that he used a weapon."	Private U
Kevin McElhinney	K	Possibly L or M, but probably Sergeant K - aimed at "someone carrying a rifle"	Privates L or M, on orders from Colour Sergeant 002 and/or Corporal 039
Alexander Nash	I	Low-velocity unaimed shot from gunman	Possibly Corporal P or Lance Corporal J
Patrick O’Donnell	I	E, F, G and/or H	Probably Corporal E, otherwise Lance Corporal F, Private G or Private H
William Anthony McKinney	K	E, F, G and/or H, possibly by the same bullet	Likely Lance Corporal F or Private H
Joseph Mahon	I		Likely Lance Corporal F or Private H, by bullet which hit W McKinney first
Michael Quinn	I	E, F, G and/or H	Private G or Private H, possibly by indiscriminate fire
Joseph Friel	I	E, F, G and/or H	Lance Corporal F or Private G, possibly by indiscriminate fire
James Joseph Wray	K	E, F, G and/or H	Both shots either Private G or Private H
Daniel Gillespie	I	Not in injured list	Corporal E, Lance Corporal F, Private G or Private H - slight injury
Gerald McKinney	K	E, F, G and/or H	Private G
Gerald Donaghy	K	Soldier G (ballistics)	Private G, by bullet which hit G McKinney first
Bernard McGuigan	K	Possibly Soldier F, or another unknown soldier - may have "been in close proximity to" a gunman	Lance Corporal F
Patrick Joseph Doherty	K	Probably Soldier F, in mistake belief he had a pistol	Lance Corporal F
Patrick Campbell	I		Probably Lance Corporal F
Daniel McGowan	I		Probably Lance Corporal F

Nick Cooper (talk) 07:54, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have not checked where any of the soldiers were positioned, but were any of them on the walls? If not, then it is possibly time for the 1997 allegations to be removed from the main article? O Fenian (talk) 10:30, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, they were all paratroopers who came in on the ground via the army barriers. The letter ciphers are all as assigned at Widgery, and letters were only given to soldiers who fired (all the rest got number ciphers - e.g. "027"). Widgery didn't have anyone friring from the Walls at all, so if Saville had, they would have been given a new "INQ" cipher. Nick Cooper (talk) 11:36, 17 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Map

There should be a map in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.53.167.255 (talk) 16:23, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

We are told that this article has no leading paragraph. This is a disaster that I can face calmly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.53.167.255 (talk) 16:29, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Actions of the IRA

Why is there no mention in this article of any of the shooting by members of the Official IRA? Fahrenheit666 (talk) 13:40, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]