Talk:William Fraser (architect)

This page was proposed for deletion by Robert McClenon (talk · contribs) on 12 August 2020.

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A fact from William Fraser (architect) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 30 September 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that William Fraser won a commission in 1896 to design a memorial honouring Scottish poet Robert Burns, which incorporates a tower (pictured) in the Scottish baronial style?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/September. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/William Fraser (architect).

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:59, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

~~... that William Fraser (pictured) was one of several architects selected to supervise the rebuilding of Halifax, Nova Scotia, after it was devastated in 1917?~~ William Fraser
ALT1... that architect William Fraser's first major commission was to design the Burns Memorial and Cottage Homes (pictured), in the town of Mauchline, East Ayrshire, to honour Scottish poet and lyricist Robert Burns?

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Frank A. Howard

Moved to mainspace by Seasider53 (talk) and Ian.fraser1 (talk). Nominated by Evrik (talk) at 20:53, 12 August 2020 (UTC).[reply]

New enough, long enough, neutrally written, well referenced, no close paraphrasing seen. Images in article are freely licensed. QPQ done. I added "citation needed" tags to several paragraphs. Find a Grave is not considered an RS; I moved it to the External links section. Additionally, the ALT0 hook fact has no sourcing in the article. Anyway, I think it kind of downgrades him to be one of "several", as he had his own respectable career. And the image provided here is too dark at thumbnail size. IMO a hook based on his first major solo project, the Burns Memorial and Cottage Homes, would work better, and the image that goes with it is quite good. Yoninah (talk) 23:18, 19 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I sourced the hook in the article. I added citations where I could and commented out the passage in the education section I couldn't cite. @Seasider53 and Ian.fraser1:, maybe you know the source of that passage? --evrik ^(talk) 03:21, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Yoninah: I added an Alt1. It clocks in at 197 characters. Feel free to trim it. --evrik ^(talk) 03:46, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

National Burns Memorial

Thank you. I'd like to suggest a different hook and a vertical crop of the image to emphasize the building's narrow structure.
ALT2: ~~... that for his first solo project, William Fraser designed a memorial honoring Scottish poet Robert Burns which featured a tower (pictured) in the Scottish Baronial style?~~ Yoninah (talk) 13:05, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah: I like the hook and the image. --evrik ^(talk) 14:03, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A big thank you to all of you for your fine work in honing this article. I'm a relative neophyte when it comes to Wikipedia page creation, so I greatly appreciate all the time you've put into this. Regarding 'commenting out the passage in the education section', I have the original documents but I couldn't find them online despite all my best googling efforts, so I well understand why you had to remove that passage. All the best.Ian.fraser1 (talk) 16:12, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ian.fraser1: write out a description of the documents using {{citation}}. --evrik ^(talk) 17:42, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Evrik:Thanks for that suggestion. I looked into it but concluded doing so would be well beyond my Wikipedia skill set! That said, I think commenting out the passage is fine. Cheers.Ian.fraser1 (talk) 20:27, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I tweaked ALT2 a bit and struck the other hooks and images. Reviewer needed for ALT2. Yoninah (talk) 17:49, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Evrik, Ian.fraser1, Seasider53, and Yoninah: The part of the hook which claims that the memorial was his first "solo project" is only in an image caption and not in the article body. In addition, none of the sources discussing the memorial in the article (references 8 to 11) appear to mention the "first solo project" fact. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 06:48, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Narutolovehinata5, Evrik, Seasider53, and Yoninah: Thanks very much for your comment. I believe the "solo project" statement refers to the second paragraph under the 'Scotland' sub-head which reads "In 1896, Fraser established an independent architecture practice in Glasgow and in the same year won the competition to design the Burns Memorial and Cottage Homes..." It is a supported fact that prior to setting up his own independent practice, Fraser worked for architectural firms headed by more senior and experienced architects, so in that sense this would have been his first major solo project. However, I defer to you as editors as to whether this needs to be supported by a citation, which I'm not sure exists. Best regards.Ian.fraser1 (talk) 17:38, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Let's just tweak the hook.
ALT3: ... that in 1896, William Fraser won the commission to design a memorial honoring Scottish poet Robert Burns, which incorporates a tower (pictured) in the Scottish Baronial style?

As far as I can tell the "solo project" part is not explicitly mentioned in any of the sources so it can't be used in the hook (and perhaps not even in the caption). ALT3 sounds like a reasonable alternative, but I think it only works if it's promoted as an image hook. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 00:05, 23 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We're aiming for the image slot! Reviewer needed for ALT3. Yoninah (talk) 22:56, 23 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Many of the sources are missing access dates and other information, and there is no source for his Glasgow School of Art period. I also has a look at the Lochgilphead fountain source and can't see where much of the paragraph is cites can be found. Part of the hook is currently sourced to a wordpress blog which doesn't prima facie appear to be a RS. The whole hook could however be sourced to [1], which seems reliable. CMD (talk) 01:38, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Seasider53 and Ian.fraser1: Can you please make the fixes? --evrik ^(talk) 01:35, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There has been no reply from either Seasider53 or Ian.fraser1 in spite of pings a week ago and recent talk page messages. If there is still no response by Saturday (or two weeks since Evrik's pings) this nomination will be closed as abandoned. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 01:32, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Chipmunkdavis and Yoninah: I think all your concerns may have been addressed. --evrik ^(talk) 03:58, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It was not all addressed, but I have edited a bit further, and will

pass this now. CMD (talk) 14:21, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Merge

Not sure what to discuss exactly. I assume the draft version (which I merged the information from the mainspace article into yesterday) passed the copyvio charge against it? - Seasider53 (talk) 01:49, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. The article William Fraser (architect) went live on Wikipedia last week and as far as I can tell the version that appears under DRAFT:William Fraser (architect) is basically the same as the article that went live. Therefore, I believe DRAFT:William Fraser (architect) and the comment box on the live page about merging the two articles can be safely removed.Ian.fraser1 (talk) 19:59, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]