Talk:Zeila

Picture of Rio de Janeiro?

The picture of the zeila coastline looks strangely like the Pao de Acucar in Rio de Janeiro with the Corcovado in the background. I doubt that this picture actually is from the somaliland coastline. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Brandonwilson (talk • contribs) 20:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC).

Modern Times section

The section on Modern Times is totally disconnected from the rest of the article. It refers to a war with no explanation and which is not explained here nor described anywhere else. There is also no mention of the fact that the area is now administered by the unrecognised but independent Republic of Somaliland.Stuartsh (talk) 12:06, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

The Rulers of Zeila decent account: The history of the people of Zeylac are mostly notnarrated properly nor it states the truth about the real history of the main clan which are still living in their land in and around Zeila. The descendants of the ruling family are in fact have been in treat so their history remained distorted until now for a political and protection purposes as they kept in secrets against others clans to claim that authority as theirs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mohamed Rirache (talk • contribs) 04:22, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

The Rulers of Zeila decent account: The history of the people of Zeylac are mostly notnarrated properly nor it states the truth about the real history of the main clan which are still living in their land in and around Zeila. The descendants of the ruling family are in fact have been in treat so their history remained distorted until now for a political and protection purposes as they kept in secrets against others clans to claim that authority as theirs. This is continuing... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mohamed Rirache (talk • contribs) 04:26, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Whether or not you accept that Somaliland is a legal entity they do exist and Zeila is within their border. I would think that they deserve a post script. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iowastate (talk • contribs) 23:03, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Zeila proposal

Please, could somebody add a few sentences about the Zeila proposal of 1935? --Roksanna (talk) 22:06, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Zay people and Zaila connection

Zeila was a stronghold of the Harla dominated Adal Sultanate. I believe the city was named by the extinct Harla people to mean land near water in contrast to gey which means town in Harla such as Hargeisa. An ethnic group called the Zay people are located in Ethiopia most likely scattered after Abyssinian-Adal war. The Zay language is related with the Harari language another tribe that were located in the capital of Adal called Gey or Harar. Volunteering editors should find sources connecting the two. Kiziotherapy (talk) 10:57, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

When was the town destroyed?

In the late 1980s by Barre/Morgan or in the early 1990s (which I doubt because fighting was not heavy in Somaliland). See the Spanish Wikipedia to see that the 1980s are more probable.Marcin862 (talk) 08:25, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Blocked sock Turtlewong (talk) 00:43, 5 September 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Havilah versus Avalites Avalites is called in the Peripleus Eritrea source. This Havilah is being used indisciminately and would like comments from neutral editors. Authorityofwiki (talk) 20:20, 16 December 2017 (UTC) There's no issues with using both terms Avalite/Havilah however blanking is not acceptable. see this source [1] The exact location of Avalite is not known its disputed. Duqsene (talk) 21:23, 16 December 2017 (UTC) Thank you for posting your point of view Duqsene, I will wait for neutral editors to view the source(s) you provided for the edit you made, and that they(neutral editors) will see the source(s) and provide their analysis of the source and claim. Authorityofwiki (talk) 22:22, 16 December 2017 (UTC) I'd like to also add, it seems odd for this statement "In antiquity, it was identified with the commercial port of Havilah." In "antiquity"(ancient times), and then it links to Havilah which goes back to Book of Genesis, referring to a "region" and then it gets limited to a "Port" town called "Zeila" in Somalia? This port town of "Zeila" may have been mistakenly named as "Havilah" by 1500–1800 European explorers, however the Ancient Greek traveler who wrote the Periplus of the Erythraean Sea referred to the area as "Avalites". This source [2] states:"From this place the Arabian Gulf trends toward the east and becomes narrowest just before the Gulf of Avalites. After about four thousand stadia, for those sailing eastward along the same coast, there are other Berber market-towns, known as the 'far-side' ports; lying at intervals one after the other, without harbors but having roadsteads where ships can anchor and lie in good weather. The first is called Avalites; to this place the voyage from Arabia to the far-side coast is the shortest. Here there is a small market-town called Avalites, which must be reached by boats and rafts." Authorityofwiki (talk) 23:19, 16 December 2017 (UTC) More sources [3] and [4], Avalites is a Greek term, while Havilah is a Hebrew word. The two are not necessarily the same thing. What 1500–1800 Christian European explorers renamed or mistakenly named does not justify using their terms over the original text of the Ancient Greeks. Authorityofwiki (talk) 23:44, 16 December 2017 (UTC) According to these sources, the two are not the same: https://books.google.ca/books?id=irBUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA619&dq=avalites+Havilah&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiq7tCrppnYAhUM92MKHZgoCJcQ6AEIWDAI#v=onepage&q=avalites%20Havilah&f=false AND https://books.google.ca/books?id=tABgAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA70&dq=avalites+Havilah&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjx79joppnYAhUG1mMKHfHfBZYQ6AEIQTAE#v=onepage&q=avalites%20Havilah&f=false Peter K Burian (talk) 19:20, 20 December 2017 (UTC) The two sources each say that Havilah was the predecessor of the Avalites. Duqsene (talk) 21:12, 20 December 2017 (UTC) I read the sources and Havilah is being used indiscriminately. And Avalites is being used indiscriminately as well. However, like Peter stated, the two Places are not the same. The Bibilical Havilah is Not modern day Somalia atleast there is no reliable source that says so. Avalites however was used in the Greek source that pinpoints to the port in Somalia. Authorityofwiki (talk) 01:10, 21 December 2017 (UTC) Quick searches says Havilah/avalite might be tied to Zaila. [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] Duqsene (talk) 02:23, 21 December 2017 (UTC) None of those sources say "Havilah" equals "Avalites" or the Port in Somalia. Infact, they all seem to use weasel words to give some kind of connection. But all your sources say Havilah is closer to Iran or the Persian Gulf. Authorityofwiki (talk) 05:01, 21 December 2017 (UTC) I got summoned here by WP:FRS, and from what I can see, User:Duqsene started this dispute by unilaterally changing Avalites to Havilah in this article and is the only user here who supports using Havilah here. I agree with the other users so far in that they are different places and that we should revert back to using Avalites in this article, especially as Havilah appears to have multiple meanings. Iffy★Chat -- 11:10, 4 January 2018 (UTC) I have edited the lead with citations. I think mention of both identifications with context is appropriate. We do not have to present the identification with Havilah as credible. The identification with Avalites is not certain either. It has been identified with Assab and with a village near Obock. Srnec (talk) 19:10, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

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Moondus

I think it should be added onto this page that many classical scholars noted Zayla as the ancient town of Moondus. I have many sources attesting to the fact. They also state from Zayla you can see the cover of an Island (Which fits with the island of Sa'adiin, which is off the coast of Zayla) . Quote from source below. Aqooni (talk) 05:24, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

"This mention of the course taking a direction to the east here is the ground for supposing Moondus to be Zeila. The reason for supposing Mosullon to be Barbora is the mention of a promontory there by Ptolemy for there is a cape at Barbora with a considerable projection to the north. This has a reference to the boats and employed in the trade between Avalites and Arabia and not to the bulk of cinnamon and Frankincense brought from the outer marts and therefore called into the market of Alexandria"

References

Semi-protected edit request on 27 April 2018

Zaila is the city of the Berbers located on the African coast.  It is desert for two months and is located close to Maqdashaw.  The people who live here mostly just eat camel skin and fish.  This town is very dirty and many people can not handle the stench.  The town is very dirty and smells very bad because the of the camel blood and fish guts.  The people of this town slaughter the animals they eat right in the streets and leave all the remains to rot, causing the stench.  When the travelers got here it smelt so bad that they decided not to stay in the town.  After they had seen how dirty and smelly it was they decided to stay a night at sea.  They only stayed close one night and continued to travel the next day.  They could not stay any longer because this clearly was the dirtiest town in the world. Zaila is located in the northwestern part of Somalia.  It is located on the coast and surrounded by water.  After the civil war in the 1990s the city of Zaila fell apart and was destroyed causing many residents to leave the area.  Now that Zaila is a run down town many people are funding to try and rebuild this town.  This town now has only 18,600 residents.  This city also only has 5 schools with only a little over 400 students in all of them combined.  Zaila has never been a popular place for visitors and as of today is very run down. Makayla1015 (talk) 13:51, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. L293D (☎ • ✎) 14:07, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

References

Undone

Linkjan2014, please use the talk page before reverting content. This is blatant disruptive editing now. EELagoon (talk) 06:42, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Zaila founders

User:MustafaO How can you decide batuta is talking about Somali when only Berber is mentioned, explain here. Please understand according to wikipedia policy the source needs to include what you're proposing to be in the article. The current source in the article does not claim Somali founded the city and certainly not that a specific sub clan (Dir) were the founders. Post the exact text here. Magherbin (talk) 11:10, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Berber is a carry on name from Ancient Greek and Roman naming of Somalia and Somalis See:Barbaria

Muslim Medieval authors such as Ibn Batuta and geographers picked it up from the ancient Greeks and started applying it to Somalis and Somalia in general calling it Land of the Berbers and this was applied all in general to Somalis. This is not to be confused with modern Berbers from the Maghreb, who have no significant history or prescence on that side of the continent. They were reffering to Somali people and to make it more obvious even when as far as referring to them as Black Berbers and Darskinned Berbers which even Ibn Battuta a Maghreb Berber himself noted when he described the Sultan of Mogadishu and the Zeila inhabitants being darker than himself speaking a a Somali language foreign to him.

Now that that is explained stop these ethno-nationalist vandalization of these wikipages please. Ragnimo (talk) 19:57, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Berber should be the only thing mentioned if Ibn Batuta said Berber, including Dir or Somalis is original research since he didnt mention Dir nor Somali in his texts. For your information, dark skinned berbers exist in North Africa too, they're not Somalis hence coming to that conclusion is not warranted. Magherbin (talk) 20:15, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

It is not original research. The refrence provided isn't from Ibn Battuta but by Futah Al Habasha Futūḥ al-Ḥabasha. (n.d.). Christian-Muslim Relations 1500–1900. doi:10.1163/2451-9537_cmrii_com_26077 and its subsequent discussion around the information provided by in those chronicles.

Wether they are referred to as berber or not does not change that the fact they were Somali inhabitants. I will call upon an administrator if you continue deleting content. Ragnimo (talk) 20:41, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

The dispute is not about whether Somalis lived there or not, the dispute is the claim that Dir/Somalis are founders of the town, this is not found in any reference. Zeila is an ancient town, the ethnic groups that lived there or "founded" it wouldnt even exist today in Zeila. Rome for example was founded by the ancient Greeks not Italians. We need the source that explicitly claims what you're introducing into the article. Magherbin (talk) 20:55, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

By your response above me it seems you have idea that there were darkskinned berber from Maghreb that founded Zeila? There is no proof of their prescence or role or migration or anything else in any where in somali territories. Fringe theory you are trying to squence in here motivated by ethno-nationalism. What you will see is that Dir clans like Gadabursi being recorded in Zeila during those times you can see it in the history section on the wiki page by a refrence given by I'M Lewis. Same with important figures in Awdal sultunate linking back to them in that area.

And like i earlier explained which you ignored Berber is a continuation of a name applied by the Ancient Greeks on Somali and East Africans it does not mean Maghreb Berbers. When the greeks applied it simply meant foreign people speaking foreign languages.The usage predates Muslim Writers. And then Muslim Georgraphers familiar with Greek works picked it up and applied the same.

In any case i'll make an exception, change it to Dir Somalis being traditional inhabitants and owners of the city and leave out the founding part. If there is doubt around that. And their early clan distribution around Awdal and Zaila is documented in line with their modern occupation. Like i noted above.

But seeing as the original person who added a refrence for it unless that particular source don't contain that information we have no reason take it down and because it is not original research. Ragnimo (talk) 21:31, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Traditional is fine however what do you mean by ownership? Do the Dir clan administrate Zeila currently? We shouldnt use terms like "owner" to describe ethnicities controlling a city. The line can go something like the '"majority of inhabitants of Zeila are dir or zeila is administrated by dir.."' etc Magherbin (talk) 21:45, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Historically Zeila was considered part of Dir country and considered their traditional clan territority see Zeila District Todays Dirs administrate Zeila currently under the Awdal province see Awdal Ragnimo (talk) 22:31, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Ok remember to cite the proposal. Magherbin (talk) 21:03, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

What you posted on the talk page and what you added into the article are two different things. Magherbin (talk) 02:02, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Its what we agreed on. I left out the founder part but it being traditional dir territory to and owned was included like i said above.

There are 3 other sources for it included that states as such and i put it in refrence qoute for people to read it Ragnimo (talk) 06:05, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

I opened a discussion on this noticeboard Wikipedia:No original research/Noticeboard#Zeila, dont change it back until the dispute is over. Magherbin (talk) 09:55, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

I really don't get you. Why are you coming back to this a month after? And you can explain yourself here on the talk page. Because i will just pass along the sources there. It wont change really change much Ragnimo (talk) 12:43, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

kaydh

kayd 41.79.199.40 (talk) 18:52, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Afar territory

Zeila was always located inside "Somaliland", and the "Afar people" used the city as a proxy to propagate their interests in the region.

Djibouti and Zeila were both inside the Ottoman Eyalet of Habesh, which was mainly inhabited by Afar people.

Afar people had always used Somaliland as a proxy, until their country known as Djibouti was established. 20:08, 17 December 2021 (UTC)~\\\\20:08, 17 December 2021 (UTC)\\\\\\~ 137.59.221.36 (talk) 20:08, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 June 2022

Change Hegira to Hijrah اخسجہ (talk) 13:06, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. (@اخسجہ) lettherebedarklight, 晚安, おやすみなさい 12:37, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Talk:Hijrah#Requested move 9 February 2022. اخسجہ (talk) 03:24, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request

In the intro, for the second paragraph, please add that it is one of the oldest cities on the East African coast. https://www.somtribune.com/2015/10/25/somaliland-notes-the-town-people-of-zeila-in-historical-pictures/ 2600:100C:A203:FD7F:FCC5:744C:531D:8BC0 (talk) 06:39, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done @2600:100C:A203:FD7F:FCC5:744C:531D:8BC0 Please follow the request guidelines and specify a verbatim copy of the updated text. I am also unsure about this source, it's quite a mess of a webpage. It's completely unclear to whom the quote in question can be attributed. Actualcpscm (talk) 15:00, 11 November 2022 (UTC)