Template:Did you know nominations/Thomas Payne (soldier)

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 00:04, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Thomas Payne (soldier)

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Thomas Patrick Payne

~~... that Thomas Patrick Payne (pictured) received the US Medal of Honor in 2020 for heroism when liberating hostages during the 2015 offensive against ISIL in northern Iraq?~~ Source: [1]

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Bennett Building (New York City)
Comment: Listed author who did the bulk of expansion although there have been many contributors.

Created by Antoniabusch8 (talk). Nominated by MB (talk) at 19:58, 12 September 2020 (UTC).

@MB: A few issues I have with this one at the moment - Dumelow (talk) 07:52, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Per WP:LEAD, the lead should be a summary of the main article text and not contain information not stated in the article. Can you incorporate the info in the lead into the main text?
There is no citation for the fact that he is one of only three MoH winners on active duty
"Payne completed numerous combat deployments to Iraq during Operation Iraqi Freedom." is not cited
The "awards and decorations" section is not cited
"In 2010, then-Sergeant First Class Payne was wounded in Afghanistan from a grenade blast ... Payne overcame the near career-ending injury" is copied from this White House briefing (though it may be PD, if so there needs to be a note that "this article incorporates text from this source, which is in the public domain"
I am not sure how useful the long list of training courses is. Can they be trimmed and/or incorporated into prose
I'd suggest adding "in September 2020" to the hook, which I think adds context

Dumelow, I was just nominating this article because I thought it was a good DYK candidate, not expecting to do much work on it. Thanks for the thorough review. I fixed up the lead, removed the two uncited sentences, added cites, added a PD attribution notice for the White House briefing (which is licensed this way), added more to the article to explain the operations that led to the MOH, and added 2020 to the hook. I think that covers it. MB 02:46, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

Thomas Patrick Payne looks at his family during his Medal of Honor ceremony.

Comment Thre are better images that can go with this article. --evrik ^(talk)

Thanks @MB:. It looks OK to run now (the list of training courses still grates on me but I won't hold up the approval on this, which is a stylistic complaint). Note to promoter: earwig will throw up high percentages due to the public domain text incorporated, which is now properly attributed. Two other sites (a reddit post and an article at defpost.com) seem to have copied large chunks of our article after it was written. Article was created 5 September and nominated within 7 days; article is now cited inline throughout to reliable sources and the lead is compliant; hook is interesting, mentioned in article and cited inline; QPQ has been carried out; image is OK at small scale and suitable licensed - Dumelow (talk) 07:45, 14 September 2020 (UTC)

ALT1 ~~... that Thomas Patrick Payne (pictured) received the US Medal of Honor in 2020 for heroism when liberating hostages on October 22, 2015 during the offensive against ISIL in northern Iraq?~~

ALT2 ~~... that Thomas Patrick Payne (pictured) received the US Medal of Honor in 2020 for heroism when liberating hostages five years ago today during the offensive against ISIL in northern Iraq?~~

I added ALT1 and ALT2 as minor tweaks to the hook for use if run on the 5-year anniversary of the action that led to the medal. MB 16:46, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

@MB: I noticed that the multiple dates are confusing in all the hooks. ALT2 is a bit of an improvement, though five years ago today is kind of buried in there. Would you consider:
ALT1a: ~~... that for his heroism while liberating hostages during the offensive against ISIL in northern Iraq five years ago today, Thomas Patrick Payne (pictured) received the US Medal of Honor?~~

ALT2a: ~~... that Thomas Patrick Payne (pictured) received the US Medal of Honor in 2020 for his heroism while liberating hostages during the offensive against ISIL in northern Iraq five years ago today?~~
Yoninah (talk) 17:04, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Yoninah, I really don't like moving his name so far to the end of the hook in ALT1a. With ALT2b, when I read it, five years ago today seems even more "buried" to me because it is at the end and readers are more likely to stop reading by then. How about this?

ALT2b: ... that Thomas Patrick Payne (pictured) received the US Medal of Honor last month for his heroism five years ago today while liberating hostages during the offensive against ISIL in northern Iraq?
MB 17:33, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

MB, that's much better, thanks! Yoninah (talk) 17:44, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Back again to promote. I'm deleting last month because there are too many dates in the hook; it reads better without. I'm not promoting the portrait image because it's too blurry, or the family watching him image because it's not in the article (and if it was, it's too indistinct at thumbnail size). But I'll place it high up in the set. Yoninah (talk) 00:04, 11 October 2020 (UTC)