Template talk:KiKi KaiKai series

Someone needs

Someone needs to write about the other two games in the series. If no one's gonna do it, I will eventually. --Ralf Loire 00:30, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I wrote the articles for the first two games just before taking a month off from Wikipedia back in December and then just sorta fell into an editing slump. I even put the other two games on the navbox to get me motivated, but they were removed due to the Wiki policy of not having red links in templates. If you want to do P&R2 and P&RwB, feel free, since I don't know if I'll get to back to writing for the Pocky & Rocky games any time soon. I agree though, the series does need more recognition. Nall 04:43, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Alright then. At some point when I find the time I'll see what I can do. No problemz~ --Ralf Loire 18:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

KiKi KaiKai VS Pocky & Rocky

The series is known as KiKi KaiKai, per these sources [1] [2] [3] . Namcokid47 (talk) 16:18, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

First, yes the series is called KiKi KaiKai BUT IN JAPAN ONLY. The official name in the rest of the world is Pocky & Rocky (the first game was never published in another country). Second, if you want to prove a point you should in the first place read what you post. From your own first "source": "Is that the end of Sayo-chan, or could we get a sequel? It's possible. Natsume recently released an updated version of Wild Guns for modern console, and it could be argued that it had as high a profile as the Pocky & Rocky series, and they actually share a designer. Technically, though, Square-Enix, the new parent company of Taito, owns the franchise. Maybe something could be worked out, but who knows." HÊÚL. (talk) 19:24, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

The game was first released in Japan, and was then released in America. So of course the Japanese name is used. Magic Pengel was released in America yet we use the Japanese name, Rakugaki Okoku as it was released there first. And yes, I did read the source I provided; the article has "KiKi KaiKai series" multiple times. Namcokid47 (talk) 19:40, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

There is no "KiKi KaiKai series" in anyplace on the "source". Maybe you posted the wrong link. HÊÚL. (talk) 20:17, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

We should title the template: KiKi KaiKai / Pocky & Rocky?. It is the English title and I see it referred to as "Pocky & Rocky series" just as often [4] [5] [6]. Also, the Japanese titles shouldn't be there when we have the English titles. It makes for an eyeful to read. TarkusAB^talk 12:28, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

It is referred to as "Pocky & Rocky series" often because is the official english name: [7] [8] [9]. And I am against this KiKi KaiKai/Pocky & Rocky thing. We do not have a Garō Densetsu/Fatal Fury or Samurai Spirits/Shodown or Ryūko no Ken/Art of Fighting for example. If we have an official name we have to use it. HÊÚL. (talk) 03:22, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

I agree with TarkusAB's idea. Suits both sides of the argument. Namcokid47 (talk) 04:56, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

You agree just because it suits YOUR argument but it still is not the official name of the franchise outside Japan. HÊÚL. (talk) 08:41, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

In my experience, I've seen the series referred to "KiKi KaiKai" just about as often as "Pocky and Rocky" in English sources. We don't use the official name, we use the common name. This layout is a good compromise. Stop assuming bad faith. TarkusAB^talk 11:23, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

I'm not getting involved, I was merely popping in to see how discussions were going, but for further reading on what TarkusAB is referring to, please see WP:COMMONNAME and WP:OFFICIALNAME. Sergecross73 msg me 14:21, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Per WP:COMMONNAME:

Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources) as such names will usually best fit the five criteria listed above. They are: Recognizability – The title is a name or description of the subject that someone familiar with, although not necessarily an expert in, the subject area will recognize. Naturalness – The title is one that readers are likely to look or search for and that editors would naturally use to link to the article from other articles. Such a title usually conveys what the subject is actually called in English. Precision – The title unambiguously identifies the article's subject and distinguishes it from other subjects. Conciseness – The title is no longer than necessary to identify the article's subject and distinguish it from other subjects. Consistency – The title is consistent with the pattern of similar articles' titles. Many of these patterns are listed (and linked) as topic-specific naming conventions on article titles, in the box above. Per Recognizability: a non-expert will recognize the Pocky & Rocky name more easily (he may not have to know the japanese name or that the first game never came out of Japan). Per Naturalness: the editors naturally will use the name of the articles to link them not the ones in japanese (as it says "Such a title usually conveys what the subject is actually called in English."). The name in english is Pocky & Rocky. Per Precision and Conciseness: these itens says for themselves. Per Consistency: the Pocky & Rocky title on the template is consistent with the pattern of the majority of the articles linked in it (with the exception of the only one never published outside Japan). So per WP:COMMONNAME it should be Pocky & Rocky. HÊÚL. (talk) 01:43, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Your paragraph did not format correctly so it's difficult for me to read. If you check the sources Namcokid and I linked, you will see that it is common for sources to use both "Kiki Kaikai" and "Pocky & Rocky" to refer to the series. The original game was actually released worldwide on the PS4 under Kiki Kaikai ([10]), and also see these links which mention both names: [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] . Some of them like HG101 and Engadget also use the same slash to separate the names. This type of nomenclature is pretty uncommon so I believe it's telling of something here. You don't see this type or writing with series like Garō Densetsu/Fatal Fury and the others you mentioned. TarkusAB^talk 02:55, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Just to name a few:

Garō Densetsu/Fatal Fury: [16] [17]

Samurai Spirits/Shodown: [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23]

Ryūko no Ken/Art of Fighting: [24] [25] [26] [27]

"If you check the sources Namcokid and I linked, you will see that it is common for sources to use both "Kiki Kaikai" and "Pocky & Rocky" to refer to the series." I saw just one source that refers to the two names as a series, the others talk about Kiki Kaikai (the game) and Pocky & Rocky (as a game and as a series). HÊÚL. (talk) 21:26, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

I understand where you're coming from, and I likewise wouldn't ever want Resident Evil getting the same "Resident Evil / Biohazard" treatment. I also saw where Namcokid was coming from and was trying to strike some middle ground. Personally, I feel I see "Kiki KaiKai" used more often in natural writing in reliable sources compared to the names you mentioned, relative to how often they are discussed. I stand by my opinion, but would be OK with a return to just "Pocky & Rocky" if consensus leans that way. If you still want to see this changed, request more opinions from WT:VG. TarkusAB^talk 22:10, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

• Comment - If the two names are indeed used interchangeably/about as often as each other, I still think we should prefer the English name just because this is an English encyclopedia. We also already have three Pocky & Rocky game articles versus just the one Kiki Kaikai game. ~ Dissident93 ^(talk) 19:54, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

I used exactly these two arguments before but the other guy insists that KiKi KaiKai is the "actual name" of the series. HÊÚL. (talk) 23:40, 16 October 2018 (UTC)