User talk:128.197.28.149

October 2024

Please do not introduce incorrect information into articles, as you did to Political status of Western Sahara. Your edits do not appear to be constructive and have been reverted. If you believe the information you added was correct, please cite references or sources or discuss the changes on the article's talk page before making them again. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you. M.Bitton (talk) 03:19, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If this is a shared IP address, and you did not make the edits referred to above, consider creating an account for yourself or logging in with an existing account so that you can avoid further irrelevant notices.

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you vandalize Wikipedia by deliberately introducing incorrect information, as you did at Political status of Western Sahara. M.Bitton (talk) 00:42, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How so? The contribution was seamless and supported by 4 references. 128.197.28.149 (talk) 00:49, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ecuador suspended its relation with SADR. What it didn't do is support the autonomy proposal (as you claimed through your edits multiple times, while misrepresenting the sources). M.Bitton (talk) 00:55, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please keep in mind WP:AGF. This looks like a pretty reasonable mistake—I was actually about to revert you before I noticed what they'd done wrong. Maybe recognition and autonomy support should be separate tables, to avoid this happening again in the future? – Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 01:02, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe recognition and autonomy support they already are. They removed the recognition with this edit and added the the so-called support for the autonomy proposal with the others. M.Bitton (talk) 01:14, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I recognize the distinction now. However, given that Ecuador was correctly deleted from the "States supporting Polisario and the SADR on Western Sahara" column given their recent freeze of diplomatic ties with the SADR, we can't have Ecuador being absent from this Wikipedia page.

What they conferred with Morocco (via a phone call exchange with the Moroccan FM, Nasser Bourita) is that they are entirely withdrawing their support for the Polisario.

This is evidence by the following 4, distinct references:

https://www.atalayar.com/en/articulo/politics/ecuador-suspends-the-recognition-of-sadr/20241023153612206533.html

https://www.msn.com/en-za/news/other/ecuador-withdraws-support-for-western-sahara-independence-movement/ar-AA1t1nl8?apiversion=v2&noservercache=1&domshim=1&renderwebcomponents=1&wcseo=1&batchservertelemetry=1&noservertelemetry=1

https://bernama.com/en/world/news.php?id=2355327

https://fesnews.media/290216/2024/10/23/

I encourage you heavily to consult the fourth source, which contains Translation of the Ecuadorian Foreign Ministry’s letter to the ambassador of the SADR:

In it, Gabriela Sommerfeld (Ecuador FM) states in Spanish: [translation] "In this context, Ecuador has decided to suspend recognition of the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic...Once a solution to the Western Sahara issue is reached, the Republic of Ecuador will make the appropriate sovereign decision, in accordance with International Law"

Thus, I believe that it is appropriate for Ecuador to be added to the "States supporting Morocco's autonomy proposal" list under Dominicana with empty columns under "Notes" and "Diplomatic mission" (latter, due to absence of Ecuador consulate in Laayoune/Dakhla), BUT a dark grey highlight with the above four references in the References column. 128.197.28.149 (talk) 01:11, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's baseless WP:OR as we already have states that have withdrawn their recognition without supporting anything other than the UN led process. M.Bitton (talk) 01:14, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Placing Ecuador in "States which have not announced any position" would be factually wrong.

Ecuador being absent in the Wikipedia article is misrepresentative of the reality of things.

Thus, the adequate and appropriate section they belong in is "States supporting Morocco's autonomy proposal" with a dark grey highlight

Notes: EMPTY

Diplomatic mission: EMPTY

References: the four above links in footnote format 128.197.28.149 (talk) 01:15, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's baseless WP:OR as we already have states that have withdrawn their recognition without supporting anything other than the UN led process. I'm done here. M.Bitton (talk) 01:16, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, but the color-coded map is wrong.

It still has Ecuador in green representative of "Maintains diplomatic relations with or recognizes the Sahrawi Republic"

If you disagree with this proposed modification, I'll have serious doubts about your credibility / continuity of logic. 128.197.28.149 (talk) 01:20, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ecuador's suspension of diplomatic ties with the SADR as evidence by Gabriela Sommerfeld's letter should very clearly, automatically revert Ecuador's color code from green to dark grey/sky blue (at the least). 128.197.28.149 (talk) 01:22, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, Bitton -- don't you think the France paragraph should be updated to reflect Macron's July 30, 2024 letter to HM, King Mohammed VI?

https://diplomatie.ma/en/statement-royal-office-20:

Excerpt:

In a message to His Majesty King Mohammed VI, may God assist Him, French President, His Excellency Mr. Emmanuel Macron, officially informs the Sovereign that he “considers that the present and future of Western Sahara lie within the framework of Moroccan sovereignty".

In this message, which coincides with the 25th anniversary of Throne Day, the French President reaffirms “the unwavering position of France on this issue of national security for the Kingdom” and asserts that his country “intends to act in alignment with this position both nationally and internationally.”

In this regard, President Emmanuel Macron stresses that “for France, autonomy under Moroccan sovereignty is the framework within which this issue shall be resolved. Our support for the autonomy plan proposed by Morocco in 2007 is clear and unwavering,” adding that this plan “constitutes now the only basis to achieve a just, lasting, and negotiated political solution, in accordance with United Nations Security Council resolutions.”

I think it's a pretty important development in Western Sahara's status -- especially given that the last info on this Wikipedia page dates back to 2021. 128.197.28.149 (talk) 01:26, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

His parliamentary address too from 29 October 2024:

https://www.france24.com/en/africa/20241029-%F0%9F%94%B4-live-macron-delivers-speech-to-morocco-s-parliament-on-second-day-of-state-visit

"In an address to the Moroccan parliament on a three-day state visit, Macron said French companies "will support the development" of Western Sahara, whose "present and future" belong under "Moroccan sovereignty"."

"But Macron began easing tensions when he said in July that Morocco's offer of autonomy for the territory under its sovereignty was the "only basis" to resolve the conflict. Macron's visit to Rabat comes after his rapprochement efforts with Algeria seem to have hit a dead end.After Macron endorsed Morocco's autonomy plan in July, Algeria promptly withdrew its ambassador to Paris and has yet to send a replacement."

France is a UN Security Council member, after all. It is deserving of these wiki updates... 128.197.28.149 (talk) 01:31, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like you only provided 2 references but accidentally duplicated them? – Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 01:01, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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