User talk:Bruno1941

George Russell

Hi Bruno,I understand your frustration but information on Wikipedia needs to be supported by reliable sources in order for it to be verifiable. If you have a source, please feel free to readd the information and include the source with it, thanks. Kosack (talk) 16:40, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Kosack- I appreciate the need for accuracy but I’ve no way of proving the link between two deceased men- one of whom was born 117 years ago.

All I can say is that my father (Les Green) was born in Atherstone in 1941 to Arthur and Emma Ada Green (nee Russell). George Russell is my Granny Emma’s older brother and was also born in Atherstone.

I have absolutely no reason to fabricate this and indeed the Les Green page does not provide any other verification on other items in the ‘personal’ section- I.e about my Mother or myself. Bruno1941 (talk) 17:03, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

Stop

I am sorry for your loss, but as Kosack said, that claim needs to be cited. If you contine to add that without citeing it, you will be blocked. Just letting you this in a way that is more perosnal as apposed to a warning template. LakesideMiners^{Come Talk To Me!} 17:20, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

WP:OR Might also be of use to you. LakesideMiners^{Come Talk To Me!} 17:21, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Well how can I cite this? If you can provide a way I’ll do it.

My father and I had a two hour long conversation with the guy who set up his page and very little was cited in the early days.

I am happy to talk to who I have to, to get this fixed.

Unfortunately my father at the height of his career never thought to mention his Uncle George to a journalist.

Please can suggest a way that this can proceed and ensure that history and family links are accurately recorded and that this stops being a point of tension for myself and George’s grandchildren.

I await your response. Bruno1941 (talk) 17:31, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Bruno1941, unless you can provide a Reliable source that has been published, there is nothing we can do. LakesideMiners^{Come Talk To Me!} 17:34, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

With all due respect there is loads of stuff on my father’s page that is unverified- my father and I provided it over the phone to the guy who set up his page.

What do you need? A photo of our family tree? I’m on ancestry.com so it should be easy enough to obtain. Bruno1941 (talk) 17:42, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Bruno1941, thanks for your contributions. My name is Kevin, and I'm here to do my best to help out as much as I can. I understand that this experience on Wikipedia thus far must have been quite upsetting, and I'm really sorry about that.

Wikipedia's policy requires that it must be possible to source every statement on every Wikipedia article to a reliable source. This is to preserve the quality of Wikipedia as a resource that many people rely on, and anything that can't be confirmed by a reliable source must be removed from Wikipedia. For these purposes, records like ancestry.com are generally not considered reliable (see WP:UGC), nor are family records or similar sources. That's because it's fairly easy to fabricate those records -- imagine, for example, if someone came forward with purported sources connecting your father or great-uncle with someone far more historically problematic. You would not want it to be easy to fabricate references for that. Unfortunately, it does seem that many elements of the Les Green article are unverifiable, and therefore someone on Wikipedia will eventually have to attempt to address those.

The good news, though, is that there are many other outlets to record the relationship between your father and great-uncle, as well as any other information about your father's life and accomplishments, outside of Wikipedia. By its nature, as an encyclopedia, Wikipedia can't hold a lot of information that people wish that it could. If you want to preserve an internet resource honoring your family connections, there are many outside outlets to do so.

Please let me know if you have further questions. Best, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 18:13, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi Kevin- thank you very much for your explanation. I do see your point.

For us having two such distinguished individuals in the family is a major source of pride- especially considering that both were born into the grinding hardship of a working class family in the North Warwickshire coalfield, yet managed to put their talents to best use.

I have spoken to George’s granddaughter and she is upset, but is happy for me to try and find a way around this.

What would be your view if we were to contact the Atherstone Herald- the newspaper from the town where Dad and Uncle George were born. If they ran a published piece about our family trying to make the link between Dad and Uncle George and outlined that they were indeed related.

If this were published by the Herald online with a link, would that be a verifiable source upon which I could add the links to both pages?

I am sure that it would make a useful interest piece for the local paper and there are many local relatives who would be keen to follow this.

If you think that would be useful way of resolving this please let me know.

Once again- many thanks,

Simon Bruno1941 (talk) 18:30, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Happy to help! Without seeing the details, I couldn't tell you what would and wouldn't work, but it's likely that a newspaper article making the link would satisfy our verifiability requirements. I can't make any guarantees though, and the broader Wikipedia community can always change its mind – and there may be non-verifiability-based editorial reasons that that wouldn't be kept in the article (such as giving events proper weight) that I wouldn't know without seeing the specifics of the article. My general suggestion would be to avoid using Wikipedia as the sole way of remembering something that's important to your family, since Wikipedia can change without notice. Best, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 05:32, 8 January 2020 (UTC)