User talk:Penyulap/Museum of Yap and Waffle 2011 Exhibitions

Welcome!

Hi! Glad to see you here. I hope you find this place rewarding. Wwheaton (talk) 17:10, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you Wwheaton, I'm glad to be here, thank you for your kind words.Penyulap (talk) 01:04, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Re: International Space Station

• Well, I was just cleaning up the introduction to the page, but I definitely have an interest to spaceflight. Besides the fact that I actually flown the space shuttle on the simulator, I do express an interest to joining the WikiProject Spaceflight ->Challisrussia (talk) 12:56, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
• Thank you for your talk--Eurobas (talk) 20:05, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Your edits on the International Space Station

		The Space Barnstar
		Just wanted to let that your work on cleaning up the International Space Station article hasn't gone unnoticed. Good work on the article so far! :) SudoGhost™ 19:49, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

iss

that seems reasonable--- go for it--U5K0 (talk) 19:19, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm inclined to just leave it the way it is unless someone starts complaining. The fact is that both of those images belong in that section and this is the only way i know to accmodate them. As for the rules, I will refer you to the one i like the most. --U5K0 (talk) 23:57, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Frst of all I want to thatnk you for being so nice. You've been doing a lot of work on this article and when someone like me comes and starts messing with it you still have the patience to explain what you mean. I really apreciate that.

Regarding the points you made: I haven't looked this up in actual documents but from what i understand from following the ISS progam, the NASA youtube channel and Spacevidcast, I think that the Cultural outreach is part of education and should be classified as such. Bare in mind that education isn't just about students and kinds. Also, most people who know about the ISS, know about it from the media, which have regular access to the crew of the Station. As for the flow of the sections; I looked at it again and you're right. I'll change it back to EDUCATION, Sightings, Cultural Outreach. Adressing the links issue; you will notice that I didn't actually delete the links but repositionned them to the top of their respective sections to improve text flow and to pronounce those links more. I did eliminate one, namely Panspermia from the Space environment section which i thought had no direct connection with the topic. If there is one it should be added back to the section and the connection mentionned in the text. --U5K0 (talk) 01:15, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Request for arbitration concerning International Space Station

This message is to inform you that two members of the Committee have asked for more information relating to the above request for arbitration. Please respond at your first convenience at the request for arbitration thread. Thank you. AGK [•] 17:58, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

If you want to communicate privately with the arbitration committee, please email arbcom-lwikimedia.org or use Special:Emailuser/Arbitration Committee if that is more convenient for you. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 02:31, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

ANI discussion June 2011

This notice is to inform you that an incident in which you may have been involved is being discussed on the incidents subpage of the administrators' noticeboard.
David Wilson (talk · cont) 06:21, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Well done

		The Barnstar of Diplomacy
		For your peacemaking efforts here. Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 16:20, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Fabulous approach. :) --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 16:20, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm glad you genuinely like them. :) I myself tend to the definition at wiktionary: "Tact and subtle skill in dealing with people so as to avoid or settle hostility." I can see why you would not feel it applicable under your definition, but I think it is a fine demonstration of mine. So much of what goes on at ANI, unfortunately, is inflammatory that it is quite a pleasure to see such a warm approach to smoothing over conflict. I hope it succeeds. (Must be hard to decide what words to link, but I wonder why the editors linked "people" and not "hostility"?) --Maggie Dennis (WMF) (talk) 17:29, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Hello

Hi. I see you're a relatively new editor to Wikipedia, and it's good that you are enthusiastic and being bold.. but you appear to have taken over the ISS talk page.. your very long posts are, well, long, and many people aren't going to read them all; .... (see also the essay Wikipedia:Too long; didn't read).

....And in that spirit I have archived the following 6 screens (on my computer) of text to an archive. It has half of a back and forth between myself and Mlm42 who I asked for help "heckling, belittling, and lampooning my efforts." The other half was on the talkpage of the International Space Station article. The episode is in parts amusing, concerning, alarming, comical and was somewhat fun, but overwhelmingly annoying for me, it led to me deciding to take a well deserved break. I was channeling Dame Edna Everage at one point due to the stress!, lolz. Well, next time I'll have to be more careful what I ask for, even when it's a Wikiogre. Penyulap _talk 13:41, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Adoption

I see you've been adopted/mentored by the very competent User:Danger. This works out very well for me as I'm a bit snowed under with adoption at the moment. However, if Danger's tuition isn't what you're after, feel free to come back to me. Worm^TT · (talk) 08:18, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Adoption

I'm not sure I communicated this well on my own talk page, so I want to be clear. I am happy to mentor/adopt you, if that is what you would like. It was just unclear to me whether ongoing guidance is what you were looking for or not. Regards, Danger (talk) 06:59, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

My comment at AN/I

Hi, Penyulap. I sent you an e-mail message to just expand a bit on the suggestion I made at AN/I. Best,  – OhioStandard (talk) 07:53, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Some advice should you return

Much of what you did can be put down to being new. In sum, your actions ended up looking like the proverbial bull in a china shop. In general, veteran editors (of which I am definitely not, but I've been around long enough) give a lot of slack and leeway to newbies. However, one thing that is causing you as much trouble as it is troubling the others is your tendency towards sarcasm. Now personally, I have nothing against sarcasm, my skin is thick enough and if need be my sarcasm can do a lot of damage. But on wiki sarcasm can be taken the wrong way because of text based communication. My advice to you when you're communicating with others is to speak the sarcasm in your head but what you write should be clear, to the point and leave no room for misunderstanding. Furthermore, baiting and taunting others makes you look worse, especially on the admin's noticeboard. That noticeboard is a very high traffic page and large numbers of admins who don't post on it will nonetheless pop by. All you end up doing by taunting others is drawing more admin attention on yourself which only ends up with you being more frustrated and enraged and the vicious cycle continues.

In summary, keep a cool head and remember to focus on content and not on the people behind it. --Blackmane (talk) 12:55, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Good advice, and I'll take it all and follow it too. Thank you, sincerely.Penyulap _talk 13:05, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Feel free to drop by my tp if you need a comment or anything. Although I'm not a prolific editor and definitely not an article creator, I'm a member of the Guild of Copy Editors and so I do a bit of copy editing when I have time so gramamtical structure, text flow and such things are what I deal with most. So if you're not sure about text or whether something might fit well into an article, please do drop by--Blackmane (talk) 14:01, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

ISS robots

Hi

(In reply to your comments on the Robotics talk page)

Can you provide me some links to the robots you have mentioned? I have searched but cannot find anything apart from the robotic arms and Robonaut. The NASA ISS page only has three robotics topics (at the bottom of the page); ROKVISS [1], Kontur [2], and Robonaut [3].

Thanks Chaosdruid (talk) 16:24, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Isshtv120090917200858nm.jpg

Regarding File:Isshtv120090917200858nm.jpg, where is the evidence that the file has been released? For such a private image to be hosted here under a free license (or into the public domain, as is the case here), there must be some proof of this. If Mr. Vandebergh would be willing to send an email to OTRS, it would clear up any concerns. See Commons:OTRS for more information and the procedure. Thanks! — Huntster (t @ c) 05:30, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Will do! Penyulap _talk 14:18, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Penyulap, has there been any progress on this? I can give it another week, then I'll need to delete it as containing no evidence of permission. Remember for the future that when the uploader is not the author, verifiable evidence of permission must be presented. — Huntster (t @ c) 05:56, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

I must apologize for my tardiness and poor memory here Huntster, I am very sorry. I will chase it up, but here are some links for you, Mr Vandebergh is an editor here, there is some discussion here his account name is Ralfvandebergh however, I've just spent 10 minutes looking over what he has done, and it looks like he is far too busy in RL for wikipedia (lucky thing) so I think unless he has added his email address, you may have trouble contacting him through his userpage. I expect you would have success contacting him outside wikipedia, I just googled or went to his website, I can't recall, I just did whatever was logical and emailed him, which worked fast. He did another edit on 14:04, 4 May 2011 Ralfvandebergh (talk | contribs) m (158,092 bytes) (→External links) (undo) (Tag: possible conflict of interest) as well, which was reverted, it seems to me he marked that one as a request for assistance. I am happy to speed up the process of contacting him, if you email me, I shall provide you with the email address I have for Mr Vandeburgh. He seems to have edited other pages in a similar fashion, in what I believe is a good faith effort to help, but it seems he is limited on time. I'll try and add a note somewhere to assist him in his efforts... Oh, BTW, Please change any of his works that you see to attrib. to give him credit where it's due. Penyulap _talk 08:18, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

The issue here, Penyulap, is that since Vandeburgh didn't upload the photos himself we have to have evidence of a release under a free license, otherwise the images will be deleted. If you can contact Vandeburgh, follow the instructions here. He basically just has to send an email to the folk at WP:OTRS. If you send him the instructions, you can put an OTRS-pending template on the images, which will delay deletion – there's a short grace period for the emailing and the OTRS clerical stuff. You can do this yourself; you don't have to send Vandebergh's email to Hunster, especially since you already are in contact with him. Make sense? Let me know if you need any help with this. Danger (talk) 08:35, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Will do! ....Oh god I hate paperwork, I had plenty of it in RL the last few days, I'll see if one of the other ones I sent out is a head-start on filling it out.. hmph. homework. 8-( Penyulap _talk 08:42, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I finished my homework and handed it in ! I hope I get full marks 8-) Um, Danger, where do deleted images go ? I think Mr Vandebergh popped quite a few images in or links, or whatever, if someone does that, and they are deleted can I find them and then get permission fixed up and so forth ? Because there was a lot of support for that image of his across a few articles, so I would figure other images of his may be worth considering too. Penyulap _talk 08:57, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Since you've already had contact with him, I'm sure you're better equipped to handle this. Just read up on the OTRS procedure and let me know when its done, and I'll check the OTRS queue (I'm an OTRS volunteer). Deleted images are still on the server, but are not available for use, since most are copyright violations or similar. They can be restored if needed and permissions are in place. — Huntster (t @ c) 09:23, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Oh! the address I have is the public one, I don't need to worry if I am being impolite by spreading it, as you can find it by googling his name, it comes straight up on his site, but the last messages I have sent him, have failed. I don't know if it is my system (gmail) or his, but I tried over, and it failed again. He has twitter, but I do not. I still have the originals in my system, but I should have made it clear to him then, as I do for requests now, that I would like to forward his emails. I hadn't asked him that in the original, as I was (and still am), a newbie. The way I asked was pretty amusing, quoting myself only...

Pictures that go onto wiki generally need to be open license, which means you may like to consider donating one of your pictures to all of humanity, to be used for any purpose. (someone may edit your image, drawing aliens on it, and then posting it everywhere, and you'd have to be OK with that, so be careful !! )

a bit of a lol there. If I can't contact him over the next few weeks on his official email address, or someone is unable to get through to him on twitter, I'll reconsider forwarding our emails, even though I did not ask him if that is ok. He responded to my request, part of which I quoted above, by sending me an email and also sending me the picture, which he suggested himself, for inclusion on wiki. (wasn't my favorite, but didn't want to push my luck there). Actually, can you guys tell me, if I did get the time to do it, would I be OK to make an article about him ? like is his public profile in his field of sufficient merit for it not to be a vanity page ? (just in your opinion that is) maybe that's an uncontroversial type of a page to make. Penyulap _talk 09:53, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

International Space Station

Thanks I will fix the bold, and I can make a png version so I will replace that.

My Orbital Replacement List was deleted so I created a separate page for it and that too was killed so I gave up on it. Go search the comments in the deletion file, someone called it irrelevant, reads like a laundry list. Well after Shuttle the ORU use will be one of the few things still being talked about on Station. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leebrandoncremer (talk • contribs) 23:02, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi, this one - pg. 1 - could be a better source:

Long-term expedition crews conduct science daily (approximately 160 man-hours per week), across a wide variety of fields, including human research, life sciences, physical sciences, and Earth observation, as well as education and technology demonstrations.

I didn't find a specific reference to the number of astronauts on board. Bie. --Harlock81 (talk) 17:49, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Thanks for the heads up. There should be a spell check button on the wikipedia edit page for those of us who don't live in the english speaking world but still contribute to english wikipedia. Anyway, have a kitten!

U5K0'sTalk_{Make WikiLove not WikiWar} 11:26, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

OMG THANK YOU !!!!!!! that is so thoughtful and kind, and Kawaii!! CUTE !! wow, that has made my day. Penyulap _talk 11:53, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

June 2011

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Mlm42 (talk) 20:21, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

I couldn't help but notice that you have apparently referred to me as a "troll" again (here). You are probably aware that it is very uncivil to refer to another editor as a troll (see Wikipedia:Don't call editors trolls). I have raised my concern over your actions here at the Administrators' noticeboard. Mlm42 (talk) 00:54, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure I've used the word Ogre a few times in referring to you, and I don't think I've used that other word referring directly to anyone, still, I'll try and eliminate it from my Vocabulary, and you may wish to read my user-page. Penyulap _talk 13:57, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure what part of your user-page you are referring to? I had read it before, and it hasn't changed since then. Also, I believe you called me a troll here, and also in the diff I pointed out above (here). If it wasn't me you were referring to, then who was it? I understand you were frustrated at the time, and if you apologized now, I would definitely forgive you.. but instead you aren't admitting that it happened.. Mlm42 (talk) 19:37, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, on the first diff, fair enough it is far too specific and I'd like to retract it. The second is a far stretch by any standard, but I'll retract that whole edit as well, because I used the word 'mentor' to refer to someone else, and was too generous in doing so. Penyulap _talk 22:29, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi Mark, it's been a while and you've been silent, please allow me to say 'I apologize to you, Mark, for calling you a Perfect Troll' I think my use of the word 'retract' may not be clear enough for you. It's quite fair for you to be upset, I was rather upset too over the whole incident, quite frustrated over communication problems we were all having on the article, and being rather new (I still am) I'm very unfamiliar with WikiCulture and how we should best express ourselves in a civilized manner. Also, as far as the second diff you give, where I refer to 'Occasional Trolls' on the talkpage, I'd like to publicly apologize to all editors who behave poorly in my opinion on the talkpage, and say I am sorry to all of them for using the word 'Troll' to describe them, it's not the right word in WikiCulture to describe their behavior. If you'd like to include yourself in that group, your welcome to take your apology there along with the others. However, as I did not refer to any individual in the second diff, I can't honestly apologize to you for it. Penyulap _talk 08:58, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi Penyulap. I just noticed this message now; thanks for the apology, I think it means a lot. Happy editing, Mlm42 (talk) 14:56, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks!

Hey there,

I wanted to say thanks for taking the time to make that post on my talk page; I really like your suggestions, and realize I may have been a bit hasty in deciding where to mention beta angle in the ISS article. When I have some time I'll be sure to take another look! Cheers! Spiral5800 (talk) 11:44, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

UDM

I have two art views of the UDm well I think its the UDM, give me your email I will send them to you? or email me at (penyulap has hidden email from roving harvester bots), have you visited my new website for my book ? www.spaceshuttlealmanac.com Leebrandoncremer (talk) 05:49, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Seriously, tone down the language

Hi Penyulap. After reading editors comments about you at AN/I a couple months ago, I think you're on pretty thin ice with this project. So I'd strongly recommend against making comments like "I personally still won't bother fixing this crap for a while longer, or until Colds7ream wants to state his intentions." It's not helpful to anyone, and probably makes other editors think less of you.

I also don't have time to address the concerns being raised at the ISS FARC. It would be sad if the ISS article gets demoted because of your nomination.

Consider the essay by a well respected user: User:Kirill Lokshin/Professionalism. In particular, he states: "Participating in Wikipedia can be fun and exciting, but editors who lack the maturity and self-control needed to take part in a fundamentally serious undertaking must be firmly asked to leave." Mlm42 (talk) 01:13, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

(1) yes I should tone down my language, but I think it's just a bit of steam leftovers and it'll pass. (2) You really need to know what FAR and FARC are, seriously. The article doesn't get demoted because of me or any other single editor. It gets demoted because, and ONLY, according to it's quality. It requires many expert experienced editors to decide it's fate. Not one person. Ten Pound Hammer, his Otters, and Brad aren't actually my sockpuppets. On the other hand, if I can't improve the articles content from a sub-FA condition, maybe I should consider singlehandedly reducing it to stub class first ? :) Having read the ESSAY I see it talks about respect for editors, which I have, especially where it's due, look at my respect for colds7ream for example, and respect for the article, which I have also. I may be candorous about the current condition of the article, but do remember I can see perfectly many errors that other editors can't, and they can see what I can't. I recognise that when Tenpound, Brad, and anyone else says there is a problem, then there is a problem, and it makes absolutely no difference to that fact whether I can see it or not. I know you have stated before you can't see errors with the article, and thats fine, but you need to recognise that does not mean there are not errors. It just means you can't see them. Other editors, lots of them, can see problems with the article. I can't see all of them, I can only see a tiny fraction. Sitting on the article like it is an Egg you're trying to hatch and not letting other people fix the errors just makes the problem worse. The articles content just spoils. FARC is not about me. It's about MANY editors. Any concern by any editor, registered or not, is of concern, and real, to me, and I want to address those concerns, all of them.

Also, please stop living in the past. ANI was months ago, the article was years ago, and FARC is NOW. Please find time to help with the NOW, thats where we need the help most. Penyulap _talk 23:04, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Checking in

Hi Penyulap, I just wanted to check in and see how you've been doing. Any problems or questions? Danger (talk) 22:06, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Danger, Umm, right now I actually logged in to ask wtf is going on with the ISS article. It is in a miserable state really. The FAR is quite slow, colds7ream has been back working on the MIR article, and I have no idea if he has any interest in the ISS article or FAR at all. I read through the lead about two weeks ago, and spotted 10 problems in the first two paragraphs alone. It's quite a rancid article for currency, and what it needs is a good overhaul. Thing is it's pointless, and I refuse to waste my time fixing it when colds7ream won't talk or discuss any problems, but is as always poised to ruin any updates with the rollback. Even when things are discussed and obviously right, he's done it before just the same. It's like I have no idea what he is up to. The FAR guys are also listing things with the article, pointing out how it needs a TOC overhaul (I so totally agree here, it's never going to manage with an update to the article). Oh, and yeah, another thing, I talk too much, any ideas ?  :) Penyulap _talk 13:17, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

I apologize that I haven't gotten back to you; must have slipped through my watchlist. Frankly, I have no idea what you are going on about. I've looked through the ISS article history back to April and I can't find any incidents of colds7ream rolling back your edits, though perhaps I missed something. Are you expecting them to do the work you want them to do, when you want it done? Perhaps you misunderstand this Wikipedia thing. We are all volunteers here and no one is under any obligation to you or to anyone else. If you really see 10 errors in the first two paragraphs, then fix them and stop complaining about other people not doing it for you. If you're unwilling to work in a collaborative environment where your contributions might be objected to or changed by others, I suggest WordPress as a platform as I've had excellent luck with it. --Danger (talk) 02:25, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi Danger, no, I'm not after anyone to do my homework, but they can clean my house if they like :) I only use that phrase because when I do it myself, that is, when I update the article, everyone is generally happy unless I touch the lead, when I redraft the lead, or rewrite it, then they get quite upset. So if I fix the lead with a re-write, it gets flipped back instantly, if I draft a new lead, there are howls of discontent, so now I just leave a list of things that are a problem, and the list just sits and is ignored. The remainder of the article I can update and rewrite, but colds7ream seemed to like the same general look as it was more than a year ago, so some fixes were undone. So I am leaving that too for a while. Anyhow, I just stopped editing and stopped fixing as so that we could deal with the 'upset' it was causing first. So the original plan which was bring the article up to date and then expand and improve stalled halfway through, but hopefully I can pick up again when I have time. I do look forward to working with the many editors who want to help, and I think it will be easier to deal with some of the problem editors I had before. Penyulap _talk 05:12, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

AN/I request

Would you mind moving your comment further up the thread? Qwyrxian and I were done discussing the age+porn aspect and I would like to focus on the issue at hand, i.e. disruptive editing and mentorship. 28bytes (talk) 05:34, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Resolved

Thank you! 28bytes (talk) 06:03, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

ISS

Please check the ISS Talk page when you have time. Thanks. --U5K0'sTalk_{Make WikiLove not WikiWar} 15:46, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

That is just mindblowing, you can't imaging how long it took me to get just a few done. It was painstaking for me. Penyulap _talk 15:56, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Please recheck the ISS talk page.--U5K0'sTalk_{Make WikiLove not WikiWar} 18:14, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

It's time for a barnstar

		The Editor's Barnstar
		I like what you've done with Mother Teresa; it's much better organised now. Yunshui (talk) 13:58, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Wow thanks, I just stumbled onto the article, and saw someone or some people had been laying in the boot to a nice old lady, who is dead actually, thought hey, that's not nice. That article is totally out of control. And I thought the Tooth Fairy needed help[4]. I wonder if I can also pick up the fastest barnstar award too, for less than an hours work :) I'll try to give little mother a bit more attention though, she is a role model for many good people I would think. Though not me, I'm happy to be a guy, don't want to get that old just yet, and I don't want to be dead either. Penyulap _talk 14:09, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

License tagging for File:8 July 2011 Elektron.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:8 July 2011 Elektron.jpg. You don't seem to have indicated the license status of the image. Wikipedia uses a set of image copyright tags to indicate this information; to add a tag to the image, select the appropriate tag from this list, click on this link, then click the "Edit" tab at the top of the page and add the tag to the image's description. If there doesn't seem to be a suitable tag, the image is probably not appropriate for use on Wikipedia.

For help in choosing the correct tag, or for any other questions, leave a message on Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 12:05, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

ISS pics

Hi. I think the idea of a double picture on ariss is genious. As fot the module pictures - my concern is that it would get too crowded and possibly disqualify the article from FA status. Personally I have no idea why we need to lose the table... it seems like the best way to present the info... just my opinion.--U5K0'sTalk_{Make WikiLove not WikiWar} 09:54, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

cool, please feel free to update the pics (just copy and paste the code from another double pic and you'll get the idea, or i can do it in a few days. I don't think we need to worry just yet about FA, it's good to scrub things up as accurate as you can first, rather than arrange innaccurate things, like chopping out things that can't be referenced is IDEAL. (like china blocked). if it looks new, and sounds right, i might have forgotten to put something in so just tag it with or google the text with cut and paste, that will often take you to the right place to find the ref. also, too many refs is a problem, called citation overkill, so i guess it's more about outrageous statements, those ones need cites most. I've been putting in some sections a short intro (short as I can) to make sections readable and flow, rather than just tabulated facts people might not understand the relevance of, i can do that part well enough. The table bothered me from the start, and more as I learnt lists and tables bother the project generally, they seem not to like them, and when you look at why it is there, the reason for it has gone a long time ago, the launches are long finished and the table cannot handle all the relevant information. looking through the other 77 languages, there are few if any tables there, start with the ones that have a star or something beside them, they are FA or GA. It's a bit of a shortcut to read FA's on the english wiki and then immitate the style. but reading up the docs is of course better, though more time consuming too. Penyulap _talk 00:33, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

TRUSS

I am fixing it now will only take two minutes to correct. Thanks. Leebrandoncremer (talk) 02:29, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

way cool ! Penyulap _talk 02:31, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Just so you are aware of what you are saying about yourself...

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. - SummerPhD (talk) 17:20, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Talk page reverts

Please stop with your reverts at Talk:Tooth fairy. Per WP:TALK: The purpose of a Wikipedia talk page (accessible via the talk or discussion tab) is to provide space for editors to discuss changes to its associated article or project page. Article talk pages should not be used by editors as platforms for their personal views on a subject.

None of these comments that you are restoring discuss possible changes to the article. Please do not restore them again. only (talk) 02:38, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

That's fine, I'll leave it. It does however irritate me to have GF additions removed when the bot will do that job within a day, as it conceals the typical readership demographic of the article. THAT subject is part of the discussion quite clearly, and I believe is the motivation behind the edits I reverted. Misza has been set up, the readership is a topic, so why else would the sudden urge for compliance with wp:talk have such importance to someone pushing a pov ? Gimme a break. Penyulap _talk 02:44, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, there is clearly a vast conspiracy going on here to hide any evidence of who is the readership. only (talk) 02:47, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Are you sure ? do they know that we know ? Penyulap _talk 02:49, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Talk: Tooth fairy

I am glad to see you are interested in discussing a topic. However, as a general rule, talk pages such as Talk:Tooth fairy are for discussion related to improving the article, not general discussion about the purpose of talk pages. If you have specific questions about what talk pages should be used for, consider visiting Wikipedia talk:Talk page guidelines and asking them there instead of on article talk pages. Thank you. - SummerPhD (talk) 04:15, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

can we still discuss your personal life which you brought up, re "I'll have to look into this further after tomorrow's lecture that I am woefully unprepared for and will have to find some way of getting through. " Just wondering... Penyulap _talk 04:18, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Check your browser settings. You seem to be missing most of that post: "I'll have to look into this further after tomorrow's lecture that I am woefully unprepared for and will have to find some way of getting through. Actually, I'll probably focus more on the ages of children believing/no longer believing. We need some data on that." - SummerPhD (talk) 04:29, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't mind that part, honestly I'm happy with you discussing your lecture as well, I have no problem with any of it really, I was just pointing out gently how far out on the hypocrisy limb of the tree you've climbed that's all. Also, it's ridiculous for you to be popping up a resolved tag on an open discussion, doubly amusing because you're the person who's actions I am discussing. Penyulap _talk 04:34, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

You're selecting a portion of one sentence of my entries as being off topic. I'm saying your entire entry had nothing whatsoever to do with improving the article. You're comparing apples and apple seeds. The talk page Talk:Tooth fairy is for discussing improvements to Tooth fairy. It is not for discussing changes to our talk page guidelines in the hopes that such changes will allow us to see enough off-topic chat to make some assumptions about who is editing the talk page so that we can assume they are representative of who is reading the article and, based on this nonsense on stilts, write the article so that this presumed audience can be addressed in language they will understand. If you have further comments aimed at improving the article (not changing guidelines to aid research to make assumptions to possibly improve the article), feel free to take it to the article talk page. Thanks. - SummerPhD (talk) 04:56, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Have you ever heard of the boy who cried wolf ? you seem to think that telling everyone about talk page rules is something other than a complete annoyance to experienced editors. Like the first time is a reminder, cool, but going on and on and on about it is like a car alarm, who listens or acts when they hear a car alarm saying someone is breaking into the car. How would anyone know if they were violating policy when you say that about everything. Even if there was a problem, I am NOT about to take advice for someone so abrasive. I like to be liked. I don't think implying that half the readers and editors of wikipedia are retarded or brain damaged is a great idea. But hey, that's just me. You do what you want. Penyulap _talk 08:13, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm not crying wolf. I've given you two formal warnings for violating talk page guidelines. After two more, the warnings stop and the blocks begin. - SummerPhD (talk) 12:03, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Copycat. That was my Idea from the beginning. Plus, you are so totally avoiding the issue completely. You announce to everyone on the talkpage this huge important thing and then you leave it as a cliffhanger, and now what? your not even going to tell us ?????? Fine. Don't tell us how the lecture went. 8-P

October 2011

Please do not use talk pages such as Talk:Tooth fairy for general discussion of the topic. They are for discussion related to improving the article. They are not to be used as a forum or chat room. If you have specific questions about certain topics, consider visiting our reference desk and asking them there instead of on article talk pages. See here for more information. Thank you. SummerPhD (talk) 04:17, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Penyulap. You have new messages at Colds7ream's talk page.
Message added 10:06, 17 October 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Colds7ream (talk) 10:06, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Penyulap. You have new messages at Bgwhite's talk page.
Message added 19:36, 26 October 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Bgwhite (talk) 19:36, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Tooth fairy

I do not know what your agenda or vendetta is at Tooth fairy, but I severely suggest you drop your actions and attitude there. You are walking very close to a block from the purposefully disruptive actions you seem to be taking there. Your ANI posts have been out of line and almost let to your block today. As thumperward said, you are digging yourself a hole right now. Please reexamine your attitude and actions there. only (talk) 19:49, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Wake up to yourself. Get real. Take a look at that article and who is holding it back. I am improving that article whether you, or SummerPhd like it or not. I am not the problem. SummerPhd just wants to sit on the article and stop it's improvement. I had a similar situation with the ISS article soon after I started there too. Admins sitting on the article lecturing it is FA and don't touch it. I pulled the FA chair out from under them, and have been improving the article ever since. Block. Oh I'd like to see that stand. A topic ban, maybe, I asked for that myself in the beginning. Have you ever been to a farm or had chickens ? If you want to get to the eggs, the hen will try to peck at you and stop you. Whatever. I'll end up fixing that article if it's the last thing I do. I'd really love to see you accuse me of anything that SummerPhd hasn't already done three times over. I'd love to see a decision that doesn't perfectly describe hypocrisy. Have you been over at SummerPhd's talkpage telling her to pipe down ? I'd be surprised if you have, let me look. Just looked at your contribs, can't see a thing. Knew it. Love me, hate me, I don't care. I am here to improve wikipedia. I suggested the topic ban in the first place, how can you do anything but agree with me ? besides it was rejected. That article is a 'Disgrace to the tooth fairy' and thats a quote from another editor. Read up on the subject. Oh yes, you'll have to search history, as there are plenty of overzealous deleters on that talkpage. Even my own remark was deleted once, in an amusing act of double standards. Penyulap _talk 20:15, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

The reason no topic ban was put in place is because you suggested the topic ban...if you think a topic ban is needed...ban yourself. Stop trying to disrupt to make a point here. only (talk) 20:32, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Lets work together to distract him as a final crushing blow

Are you still here ? sorry I was off improving the article. What topic ban ? yes, I tried that at ANI didn't work. The pesky blighter got around it somehow, hey, maybe we can team up and hatch a plot to get him thrown off the project eh ? after all, I have it on good authority that 'WE' don't like him. eh ? know what I mean, (nudge) and, while we are trying to do that, lets see if we can keep him busy ok? you know, slow him down, lets take turns typing on penyulaps talk page, to waste his time, ok ? I think it's a brilliant stop-gap measure until we can get some kind of genius master-plan worked out. If only I had more brains I could come up with something I'm sure of it. Dam, curse my over-pedestrian 'god-given' according to 'WE' intelligence. I'm such a lack luster genius I can't think of a anything better right now, but I know I'll think of something, we have to keep up the fight. We are only two people, but together with WE we can do it. Go WEwe !!!! Penyulap _talk 20:47, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

_{'WE' is explained here}

You sound disappointed that you weren't topic banned. Therefore, let me, as an administrator, declare you officially topic banned from Tooth fairy (and, therefore, its related talk page). If this topic ban is not acceptable to you, we can go to ANI (and waste everyone's time) to get a more official one. only (talk) 20:55, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Well it is tradition to take it to ANI, I haven't heard of these private little talkpage deals before. There have been some wicked little things people have tried to influence me into on my talkpage. I've learnt not to wander off with strangers into private places and do strange things I'm not comfortable with. So go tell on me in a public place. Penyulap _talk 21:16, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

ANI discussion opened

Since you desire to have this talked about at ANI, here is the link: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Penyulap_and_disruption_at_Talk:Tooth_fairy. only (talk) 21:22, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Again, I'm not sure why we are going through the ANI discussion if you said you've wanted a topic ban, I've offered you one, and now you're saying you don't want one unless it's an official one. Seems like a time sink to me. only (talk) 21:22, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Hey! your a genius, that's even better than us taking turns on his talkpage to keep him busy. Nice going ! Penyulap _talk 21:29, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours for disruptive editing and incivility. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you would like to be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the text {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:32, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

A topic ban related to the tooth fairy and other mythical figures - broadly construed - is being discussed in the AN/I thread at the moment. If you have anything that you would like posted there you can post it here and someone will move it over. N^oformation ^Talk 02:49, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

In reply to your comment

Since you've been blocked, I'll reply to your comment, here.

Quoting, for reference:

Let's try this: please explain, in your own words, why other editors are objecting to your image proposal at Talk:Tooth fairy. I certainly hope you can do better than "Some people do not like the idea of improving the image". – Luna Santin (talk) 01:08, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

To which you replied:

Santin, I think that people make too many inappropriate and cryptic remarks, like SummerPhd, refers to 'Please stop beating the straw man.' and invited me to view graphic sexual material, which I did not, I was very offended by that inappropriate behavior and requested that SummerPhd remove such a remark on her talkpage, which she wouldn't. Is Beating the straw man masturbation ? And wanting other editors not to collaborate on her article saying "So, as I understand it, those who want to go forward with this art project wish to ignore WP:OR, WP:SYN, WP:V, Wikipedia:Image_use_policy#Content and so on. " I have no idea what she is trying to say there. Thumperward says 'Penyulap, if you're attempting to inject humour into the discussion with your repeated flippant replies then Id advise you to stop.' am I supposed to be breaking a rule by being a naturally humorous person, can I change that any more than the color of my skin ? Being funny is better than being a pervert. Am I supposed to stop the proposal because thumperward says 'In any case, there is absolutely nothing in the new proposal which addresses the concerns presented: namely, that this is an independently-created image which has no obvious ties to reliable sources on the supposed appearance of the tooth fairy. Quite frankly I very much doubt that such a thing exists anyway.' So thumperward is objecting because he feels excluded from the creative process ? but this image is improving according to suggestions by editors who have researched the appearance of the Tooth fairy. He suggests that no reliable sources exist, but google has 461,000 hits for tooth fairy, so how can that be.

I warned SummerPhd that the word 'fantasy' would attract vandals, and it did, it's not a necessary word, as 'Folklore' will do, but she teases the vandals in her writing style, and displays a scorecard on her userpage in a contentious manner and claims there is no connection between the state of the article and vandalism, despite so many editors saying otherwise and vandalising it too. She just keeps pushing her Pro-Vandalism stance.

She also claims or implies anyone who doesn't agree with her is retarded or brain damaged. Penyulap _talk 02:01, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Allow me to introduce you to two popular phrases in debates: "straw man" and "beating a dead horse"; it looks to me like SummerPhD was trying to say that (in their opinion) you've been repeatedly countering arguments which haven't been made. To the best of my knowledge, there is no common erotic or obscene interpretation of either phrase. Furthermore, I don't see anywhere that they've expressed "wanting other editors not to collaborate on her article", or indeed anywhere where they've thought of it as "her article". You may want to click through and read some of the links provided: site policies and guidelines regarding original research, synthesis of sources, verifiability, and image use. Applying site policy to discussions here is not normally thought of as a bad thing.

Regarding your repeated allegations that SummerPhD "invited [you] to view graphic sexual material", I believe several of your fellow editors have tried in vain to clarify your misunderstanding of their intentions. It is common, in discussions, to offer a counterexample to someone's claims. You seemed to be arguing a position that Wikipedia content should always be appropriate for children; in fact, the site's policy is that this is not the case, and SummerPhD provided a very powerful example proving that. I'm sorry that you were offended, but please understand that was not their intent.

Finally, we come to your analysis of Thumperward's statements. You seem to think they feel "excluded from the creative process", but I'm not sure why that is. If you invited Thumperward to create their own image, how do you think they would react? Their comments on the talk page indicate quite clearly that they don't believe it's appropriate for Wikipedians to create their own image for use, here -- to wit, "this is an independently-created image which has no obvious ties to reliable sources on the supposed appearance of the tooth fairy".

I'm not sure how you conclude that anyone is advancing a "pro-vandalism stance". Who is advocating vandalism, and where? There is a much simpler conclusion that we can draw: it's not that they are advocating vandalism, but rather that they are not convinced by your argument, and do not believe the wording is problematic in that way.

I'm concerned by your analysis; you seem to have trouble identifying the motivations of your fellow editors; whether caused by or resulting from the above, you've repeatedly accused other editors of attempting to "own" the page (kettle, pot), ganging up against you, or simply wanting to harm the article. It would be much better if you could read and actually address the many concerns other editors have raised regarding your proposals.

If you can't reasonably consider what I've written, here, then I can at least say that I tried. – Luna Santin (talk) 03:09, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Unblock request

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Penyulap (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

---

Request reason:

TB is now in place, as I agree with the reasons given at the time the TB was originally suggested, I support the TB. Blocking from other pages, hinders discussion with my mentor and LadyofShalott who demonstrate a desire to assist me. There hasn't been any recent problems with the ISS talkpage or article, quite the contrary, so I'd like official permission to be able to resume editing in accordance with the Topic Ban which is in place.

Decline reason:

Yes, the topic ban is good. Yes, your mentor musty be watching your talkpage, so you can indeed communicate with them. You're blocked for being disruptive when you did not get the resolution you wanted - at no point in this unblock request do I see anything that addresses that issue, why it was inappropriate, and how you'll never do these behaviours again. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:40, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

---

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Further disruption

You just came off a block for disruptive editing, and continue in a disruptive vein at Talk:Occupy Wall Street and Talk:"Occupy" protests. Please be advised that further such edits to a talk page, or other disruptive edits, will lead to another, longer block. Drmies (talk) 19:27, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

for the cream

Thanks for the laugh. Off2riorob (talk) 16:06, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Rob, I think the tyranny of the masses article is interesting. Penyulap _talk 15:21, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Tiangong 1

Hey, thanks for the new info/cleanup on Tiangong 1 - are you done editing it for now? I don't want to cause an edit conflict :p Also, do you know if there are any further sources for the Shenzhou 8 docking with Tiangong? Apart from the BBC, I can't find many that confirm it has taken place (not that I doubt that it has, I just want more info). Thanks. Michaelmas1957 (talk) 02:15, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

talkback

Hello, Penyulap. You have new messages at EyeSerene's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Talkback

Hello, Penyulap. You have new messages at LadyofShalott's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

New schema of ISS

Hello Penyulap! You offered a new shema for ISS in the russian version of the article. Could you please explain for me advantages of the new variant? I am going to make some refactoring in the russian article and may be a new schema will be included too. --Dodonov (talk) 11:51, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Re: I think you put something into MiszaBot's milk, he's gone crazy.

Resolved

You wrote:

Poor MiszaBot has gone berserk, but don't worry, it's just on three pages. He's deleting instead of archiving. I traced it back, I think. Did you change the templates on wikiproject journalism, media or Portugal ? well, not Portugal, some IP did that one I think. Apparently Misza's config can be subtly altered into a time bomb, you did that by accident, and when he returned to the page, he deleted his programming and went on a rampage. Anyhow, delighted if you could clean up the mess, I'll try and do Portugal. I'm very tired right now. Penyulap _talk 22:20, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Oh, please hassle me on my talkpage rather than here. Penyulap _talk 22:23, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

I didn't change Miszabot's code, only the other banner mess on those pages, and studiously avoided the bot code. Miszabot clearly brainfarted and deleted it's own config, e.g. here. I hate that bot anyway, and it certainly shouldn't be used on lower-traffic pages like WT:JOURNALISM. I'll see what I can do about rescuing the deleted material, though, at both articles. Have more pressing issues right now, so it'll have to be later tonight. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 00:42, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Lovely. I was too tired to do more than one fix. I was trying to trace it, and I think that the preceding fiddles might have moved a bracket or something, it's all clearly unintentional, as it's so subtle. It happened on wp:portugal, maybe I can fiddle with it in some similar way and find the bug.... sometime. As a bug it's not worth reporting as it's too contained, to the two you did and one other where an IP fiddled. Anyhow case closed, thanks for the response. Penyulap _talk 04:57, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Done. What a pain. I've restored my WP:JOURN to WP:WPMEDIA merge proposal. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 14:39, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Sig code

While mucking with the Talk:Journalism repair, I noticed you have a coding error (three technically, but one that will really matter) in your signature:

<span style="text-shadow:#c5C3e3 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em; class=texhtml">[[User:Penyulap|<span style="color:#002100">'''Penyulap'''</span>]]</span><sub>[[User talk:Penyulap|<span style="color:07AA07">''' talk'''</span>]]</sub> 22:25, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

should be:

<span style="text-shadow:#c5C3e3 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em;" class="texhtml">[[User:Penyulap|<span style="color:#002100;">'''Penyulap'''</span>]]</span><sub>[[User talk:Penyulap|<span style="color:07AA07;">''' talk'''</span>]]</sub> 22:25, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Hope that helps. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 12:32, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

That makes it a lot bigger, I wish it wasn't, it makes me look like I have some Ego problem. Not that I don't, of course, but it makes it look like that. I'll have to look into this some more, but seriously, thank you for the help. (I might change back in the meantime, to restore the size). Penyulap _talk 13:21, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, then you probably just want:

<span style="text-shadow:#c5C3e3 0.2em 0.2em 0.2em;">[[User:Penyulap|<span style="color:#002100;">'''Penyulap'''</span>]]</span><sub>[[User talk:Penyulap|<span style="color:07AA07;">''' talk'''</span>]]</sub> 22:25, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Try that one. I'm pretty sure that's what was actually being executed, since class=texhtml" inside of a style="..." parameter would do nothing. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 14:38, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Wow thank you so much. Thats nice and polite sized. Penyulap _talk 15:43, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm not so great at these kinds of things, by the time I learn it, and go off to do something else and then come back, I've forgotten it already. Plus, I didn't know how to do sigs in the first place, I stole it, bashed it with trial and error until it looked about right, blunt instrument but effective. Like refs, I used to know how to do the multi ones, but I got rusty. Doesn't matter. My big one at the moment is working out templates, I am trying to make one that people can pop launch dates and times into, and then it updates across many wikipedias, there are 77 languages and it could go into dozens of those, they are so very quiet and outdated for many of them.

{{Tiss}}

I didn't get far, I was trying to get it to read the text labels out of a page according to the servername (country) that the template was on, but I think templates can't work like that, they have to be in the native language. Don't know if they can then read values from some other wiki or not. the blank space under ship reads according to the contents of a page, which has just the name in a certain language. In theory, if I could do it, labels would be done for the table, each kind of ship, and then the dates, plus a launched/docked/undocked flag would be all that gets updated, then as those flags change they drop off one table, onto some other table. But it may be too much of a server load I would suspect, and maybe templates can't read across wikis. Still, it makes my brain itch. It's still on my agenda, as I try to do about 15 things at the same time. lolz. But it may be like the linking layout on my workspace, which i swiped from russia, then I worked to improve it with help from another editor as well who thought of colorizing it, and the other day I saw someone swiped that for another wiki entirely. Cool. Anyhow I have to keep a lid on my can of words / worms / brain (whatever)...I talk too much and never shut up. Penyulap _talk 16:01, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

December 2011

Your addition to Harry Houdini has been removed, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without permission from the copyright holder. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other websites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of article content such as sentences or images. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. Johnuniq (talk) 10:01, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, I'll fix it up when I have a moment, for now, Harry Houdini will have to parade about as Australia's first aviator like Tomas Edison parades about (even to this day) as the inventor of the light-bulb. Shrug. Whatever. Penyulap _talk 13:03, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

WP:DTTR. N^oformation ^Talk 20:20, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Agreeing with you Noformation, except the use of 'regular' to describe 'penyulap' is to be balked at, 'large' 'irregular' why there are a hundred contrary terms that fit right there. Anyhow, I've never got a polite word from that editor that I recall, it's about what is to be expected from him/her. Penyulap _talk 19:29, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Criticism sections

Well I assume you know about Wikipedia:Criticism. It depends on the article. The more controversial, the more likely it is that editors will choose to put criticism in a section where they can keep track of it and make sure everything is NPOV. That would often include religion articles. Advocating for the overall best practice of "integrating criticism throughout the article" can sometimes be used as a POV push method to give criticism more WP:WEIGHT than it deserves. At other times, this is perfectly legitimate. I prefer criticism sections for highly controversial articles or articles which attract a lot of inexperienced editors. Otherwise criticism is hard to evaluate as to WEIGHT and sometimes hard to notice when inserted. But there is one extremely powerful reason for keeping a criticism section: it makes it much easier for the reader. I just added It may also make it easier for a reader who is interested in criticisms to use Wikipedia to the Wikipedia:Criticism essay. B^e——C_ritical 19:16, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for that, it does seem precisely whats going on with the Mother Teresa article, which doesn't seem to be about her anymore... 8-) anyhow, I look over it and it's had some problems with an outdated FAQ and all the POV pushing which is really upsetting readers. Actually after I stuck criticism into it's own section someone barnstared me, and I do like shiny things 8-) Thanks for that help I'll give it all a good read and see what I can come up with. Finding the time is the hard bit. my goodness it's hard. Penyulap _talk 19:24, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and the RT news thing is fine with me, I have no idea what others will say. Kind of thing that could get out of hand if everyone added their favorite news site? Yeah, WP is such a time waster :P B^e——C_ritical 19:54, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

The Technical Barnstar

Hi Penyulap, thanks for your comment. Sorry but I can't follow that link to youtube, but if you were talking about the color of signature, I just fixed this issue.[5] --Z 11:26, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

I was using it to personify Miszabot as if it were HAL 9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey (film), it gives a lovely effect, I'd adapted some of HAL's dialogue from the movie to what Miszabot had done. I think it's an awesome Barnstar and I must say I do love shiny things, and old computers, and scifi, so it's like got it all (for a barnstar). Penyulap _talk 13:51, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Ow.... And, yes... that's exactly what I intended to make -- a shiny 'old computer'-like SciFi thing! --Z 10:08, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

The ISS Barnstar

	The ISS Barnstar
	For your work on International Space Station, I hereby award you this barnstar! :) ♫GoP♫TCN 16:04, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Hey, thank you, I was just mentioning how much I love shiny things too ! That barnstar is one I haven't actually seen too. Penyulap _talk 16:05, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

You can create your own barnstars with WP:TWINKLE :). Regards.♫GoP♫_T^C_N 16:13, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

I have made some before, and have thought up but not yet coded some more. This is my effort so far. But I probably haven't put it in the right place (took me ages to find it just then) Penyulap _talk 16:36, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Template:Christmas on the International Space Station

What the heck is that? The Mark of the Beast (talk) 06:11, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

A wacky work in rapid progress, it'll make more sense after about a day of editing. Just put it down to insane scientist crap, but I promise it won't destroy wikipedia (maybe) 8-) but actually tell me when you 'get where I'm going' with it. I like this idea. Penyulap _talk 06:17, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Oh and it's not really meant to be a template maybe, but darned if I could work out how to fiddle with transclusions, anyhow if I build it they will come(techos), and even if they don't it will work anyhow. Penyulap _talk 06:20, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

A speedy deletion template in the middle of it, cool!, oh wait you had second thoughts, hey that's even better. Penyulap _talk 06:32, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Why is this in Template space? The Mark of the Beast (talk) 19:26, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, if there is one thing I learnt from ANI it's 'you're on your own', so to make that section work, and I have to stick the section into an expression, basically it has to be expressed in the ISS article as below, plus to edit an invisible section you have to work out how it looks when it's not invisible, so you have to be able to write it into your sandbox and so forth same as I have, so you can get an idea...

{{#ifexpr: {{#time:z}} > 342 |

===Christmas on the International Space Station===

{{Christmas on the International Space Station}}

}}

the title goes into the expression because it was making blank whitespace. Anyhow, I'm familiar with templates, and used that, there is no Christmas article and I couldn't work out the inticacies of transcluding just a section.

You're most welcome to assist if you please, however it's working just fine, another techie came on board and it's now a collaborative effort too, but feel free to improve it as you see fit.

I'm quite happy for you to add your 'speedy delete' template again as I agree it's a crude implementation, not elegant at all I guess, but do be aware it would appear in the middle of the ISS article now.

I will be moving it myself, as soon as possible, to article space, though there is no article that contains it as yet. I expect I can run one up along the lines of 'ICC culture' soon. It'll all dissapear from TP Space then either way. Penyulap _talk 23:56, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

File:Isshtv120090917200858nm.jpg

Hi Penyulap. I had to deny the transfer of File:Isshtv120090917200858nm.jpg from here to Commons, as Commons cannot accept "word of mouth" permissions for files, and technically they are not accepted here, either. You will need to get in touch with the author, and have them send an email to OTRS stating the filename and that they release the image under a particular license or into the public domain. Full instructions can be found at Commons:OTRS, and I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have. Thanks. — Huntster (t @ c) 10:17, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, I have checked my email and found a delivery failure, well buried too, I have sent Ralf Vandebergh another request and expect it won't be too long before he replies, I'd say give it a few weeks, as he might travel, or not, I don't know what his schedule is. To put your mind at ease a little, I had organized through Ralf for his portrait to be released, it's on his article page. It's not a self-portrait, but it's the one he suggested and sent to me, and it looked fine in my opinion for inclusion. So he is keeping in touch with me and it shouldn't take too long. Something I brought up in the email I just sent is the option of people giving me permission to act on their behalf in these cases, do you know what form I can send to them for that, so I can release their pictures as I see fit, that would simplify things I think. Chris peat from Heavens-above is just like yep go for it, anything I like from his site, so it would be good if I get a once only form for these people, and they can suggest to me conversationally what they'd like to do, rather than use the forms all the time. Penyulap _talk 11:48, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Template:Christmas on the International Space Station

What the heck is that? The Mark of the Beast (talk) 06:11, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

A wacky work in rapid progress, it'll make more sense after about a day of editing. Just put it down to insane scientist crap, but I promise it won't destroy wikipedia (maybe) 8-) but actually tell me when you 'get where I'm going' with it. I like this idea. Penyulap _talk 06:17, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Oh and it's not really meant to be a template maybe, but darned if I could work out how to fiddle with transclusions, anyhow if I build it they will come(techos), and even if they don't it will work anyhow. Penyulap _talk 06:20, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

A speedy deletion template in the middle of it, cool!, oh wait you had second thoughts, hey that's even better. Penyulap _talk 06:32, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Why is this in Template space? The Mark of the Beast (talk) 19:26, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, if there is one thing I learnt from ANI it's 'you're on your own', so to make that section work, and I have to stick the section into an expression, basically it has to be expressed in the ISS article as below, plus to edit an invisible section you have to work out how it looks when it's not invisible, so you have to be able to write it into your sandbox and so forth same as I have, so you can get an idea...

{{#ifexpr: {{#time:z}} > 342 |

===Christmas on the International Space Station===

{{Christmas on the International Space Station}}

}}

the title goes into the expression because it was making blank whitespace. Anyhow, I'm familiar with templates, and used that, there is no Christmas article and I couldn't work out the inticacies of transcluding just a section.

You're most welcome to assist if you please, however it's working just fine, another techie came on board and it's now a collaborative effort too, but feel free to improve it as you see fit.

I'm quite happy for you to add your 'speedy delete' template again as I agree it's a crude implementation, not elegant at all I guess, but do be aware it would appear in the middle of the ISS article now.

I will be moving it myself, as soon as possible, to article space, though there is no article that contains it as yet. I expect I can run one up along the lines of 'ICC culture' soon. It'll all dissapear from TP Space then either way. Penyulap _talk 23:56, 29 December 2011 (UTC)