User talk:Princeton03

Welcome!

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Counts of Tyrone

Would you consider moving any info on them I've missed from Earl of Tyrone to Count of Tyrone? It's fine to have a link to the latter article in the former, but since "Earl of Tyrone" is strictly an Irish peerage and part of the UK system of peerages, I'd like to keep the foreign title separate. I'm also curious about the role of Mary Auguste O'Neill; "custodianship" of a noble title is not a concept I'm familiar with, and I find it surprising that the Spanish monarchs would alienate any part of their role as fons honorum to the Vatican. I don't mean to impute bad faith, but I'm interested in hearing about the sources for these claims. Best, Choess 22:40, 16 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you about splitting them up. Although they were of the same family, they certainly took different directions. The title of Earl of Tyrone is actually still an active title. The Marquis of Waterford holds that title in its third creation. Princeton03.

Copyright problems

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Problems with upload of File:Séain Mór Uî Néill (anglicisé comme) Shane The Proud O'Neill) (c. 15e0 – 2 June 1567).JPG

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File source problem with File:Séain Mór Uî Néill (anglicisé comme) Shane The Proud O'Neill) (c. 15e0 – 2 June 1567).JPG

File Copyright problem

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O'Neill dynasty

O'Neill dynasty was recently put together from several smaller articles and is still in need of an expert. Before it was merged I listed a number of things under See also, but I don't have the background to write them into the article. The person who merged the articles specializes in heraldry and has made the excellent contribution of the arms, but I don't think he can do much more with the text, which is mostly as it was in the old articles. DinDraithou (talk) 19:14, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I spent a couple of days working on this article. Hopefully I have cleaned up some of the problem areas and given some degree of flow to the text. I deleted a number of the more sticky areas of debate. Princeton03.

June 2010

Your addition to Association of O'Neill Clans has been removed, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without permission from the copyright holder. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other websites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of article content such as sentences or images. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. Copied from http://www.oneillclans.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22&Itemid=30# Whpq (talk) 18:00, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of Association of O'Neill Clans

The article Association of O'Neill Clans has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

This orgasnisation lacks any coverage in reliable sources to establish notability.

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I would love your help

Dear Princeton03, I have been writing the article Bissett family (Ireland) and have not been able to find a source explicitly stating Sabia O'Neill was one of the four daughters of Aodh Reamhar. For why this is a problem see the article's talk page. Prince Hugo Ricciardi O'Neill has an account here, and I have asked him for help, but he has not appeared again since early January. DinDraithou (talk) 05:28, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Somehow I don't always manage to add "Thank you" at the end of a request for help. I get tricked by the signature. So whether you can help me or not, thank you! DinDraithou (talk) 22:58, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DinDraithou, Happy to help! I'm not sure how I exactly respond to you, hopefully this is the manner. As to the Bissetts, I researched them a few years back due to the MacShane - McKeon/McEoin link. I've even passed information with the man who owns what is considered to be the originial Bissett fief in Scotland. Your question is more of an O'Neill question and I'll have to dig in and see what I can come up with for you. Cheers, Princeton03

Thank you! I got into the Bissetts, from whom I am not to my knowledge descended, in a rather strange fashion. A certain very famous young performance artist whom I have fallen deeply in love with is descended from a small family now based in West Virginia but who appear to have arrived in America among the early Scotch-Irish in Maryland sometime in the 17th century. See here, where I had a great time showing off until some not terribly bright people succeeded in driving me off. I'm fairly confident we're looking at Irish Bissetts here because not only do we have the early use of the doubled -tt- which has only recently become widespread in Scotland, we also have these so-called Scotch-Irish leaving in large numbers from a region of Ulster home to the Irish Bissetts from the 13th century, and the fact that the Scottish branch aren't concentrated in "contributing (Scotch-Irish) regions" of Britain.

Being a student of some aspects of Gaelic Ireland I was pleased to discover that the Irish branch are a darling case of going about as Irish as a family can. Here we have historically important Scoto-Irish magnates and great supporters of the O'Neills who have been almost forgotten because of successful MacDonnell fabrications which eventually achieved the status of truths. I may be sweet on someone but this case has made me genuinely angry, at my distant cousins the MacDonnells for not being truthful, at Scottish and Irish scholarship for being uninformed and incoherent (not uncommon), and at the O'Neills for forgetting once dear friends. How did this happen? DinDraithou (talk) 07:11, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Btw the O'Neills I count as distant cousins too, since my mother descends from an American sept, the Claflin family, of the Scottish Clan Maclachlan, who are usually considered to have the most reliable pedigree of the so-called Anrothan kindred. And I'm not really "angry" at anyone. Post Earldom of Ulster O'Neill history til Conn Bacach (your ancestor?) is poorly covered. I think you and I might be closer distant cousins through Gerald Mór FitzGerald, 8th Earl of Kildare if I'm reading your edits correctly, since I descend through the O'Donovans from Prince Owen son of Donal MacCarthy Reagh. Cheers! DinDraithou (talk) 18:43, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Indeed we do appear to be cousins through the O'Neill-Fitzgerald connection. I am descended from Conn Bacach. What happened to the O'Neill Clanaboy-Shane's Castle work? I saw that it was wiped out and there was discussion about it, but I worked hard on that about 8 months ago. They are my friends and was trying to bring to light their present contribution to the family. Anyway...I'll dig out my Bissetts stuff. Interesting group, real survivors. They were some of the VERY first Scots-Irish in Ireland, so early in fact, that you cannot really include them with the others. Cheers, Princeton03

They are unique and inspiring. Anything you can find will be wonderful. I consider them family now. I care about them, and their Scottish cousins too. Who knows to whom the one I am in love with belongs. It does not matter.

I am responsible for removing the Shane's Castle material a few months ago. My personal objections were that the article is on the O'Neill dynasty and not the Chichesters, and that section also does not discuss the Clanaboy dynasty itself enough. It would be something else if their line chose to be accepted as O'Neills from the marriage but what we have is a late embrace following their inheritance of a minor English title. See also the objections of another editor. That all said, I recognize the modern family are excellent people and are playing an interesting role in the Association of O'Neill Clans, as far as I am aware at first as supporters of Prince Hugo and now as prominent hosts for everyone.

I can work with you to create Association of O'Neill Clans but will need more information than I have. I own Ellis and Curley and have read the relevant chapter of Nash but do not know how things currently stand. I do not know the position of the Prince of the Fews (Marques de la Granja) or our cousin the newly created Count of Tyrone (or whatever the Vatican calls him). Am I now looking at the only association left? Prince Hugo could style himself King or Prince of Ailech but you yourself should have a superior claim to Ulster if you are a verified male line descendant of Conn Bacach and apparently Shane.

So are you all working together now? I understand Prince Hugo wrote suggesting an O'Neill constitutional monarchy for Northern Ireland and some US Senator did not reply. Certainly this is not over. Returning to your friends the O'Neills of Shane's Castle I understand their potential importance and very much admire them. What you added to the main article is not lost. I can find it in the edit history so that you can copy and paste it to the appropriate articles once we have them up. They can be mentioned in the main article but not at length now since they are of no historical significance yet and will have to earn it. I am no one of importance myself yet but would like to help you and them. Like The O'Donovan I descend from Teige son of Donal II O'Donovan, one of the petty Munster magnates to support and recognize Tyrone. And you are all my very distant cousins through that Great FitzGerald!

I will be requesting my account here deactivated in a couple of months for a variety of reasons so we do not have that long. My creation priorities are the Bissetts, an O'Driscoll, a MacCarthy, who all depend on me. But the O'Neill presence in this great online project and resource needs considerable expansion and I am willing to devote some time to it. I just do not know what is going on! I did not see what you put in Association of O'Neill Clans before it was deleted. Notability is easily enough established, but what does it have to say? Can it be described as a lineage organization? Can a family like the Bissetts become associated considering their history? The last Mac Eoin was slain in Conn Bacach's camp by the O'Donnells, and we know that most Irish Bissetts and no doubt some Scottish ones will have O'Neill blood in them. Or is a pedigree required? DinDraithou (talk) 00:33, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The O'Neill Clans Website is unfinished. There is no mission up yet and much has not been updated since earlier last year. Also the information page looks partly inaccurate because Ellis discussed its predecessor's existence ten years ago. Also who is on the O'Neill family council and do you have a Chairman? Who is running it? Your website will need some of this information before we can create the article here. That the Association is relatively unknown to Google is not a big problem for us here because its name is new. I have found some mentions though.[1][2][3] Alternatively we could devote a respectable section to it in the main article but personally I'm for a separate one. Cheers! DinDraithou (talk) 04:10, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You might find the Claflin Family Association website helpful, especially the bylaws. It would appear that I am automatically a member because the pedigree of my mother's branch is in the book. And interestingly enough her branch are like the O'Neills of Shane's Castle in that they are female line. One of my ancestors was a Claflin woman, "Fanny Wilmarth Claflin," whose husband took her family name! He must have loved that fanny because we do not even know what his family name was. The pedigree says "it is said that they were cousins" but no trace of his family has been found. So their children were all Claflins and we are included in the pedigree. Anyway, I hope your association will allow "Others with an interest in or a connection to the O'Neill dynasty, upon approval of their application for membership, made in writing to the Secretary and stating their interest in or connection to the O'Neill dynasty." I have quoted the CFA Article 3.1.3 and substituted with O'Neill dynasty. The wording is interesting but it may be that the occasional business or historian would like a membership. I have no idea how much money any of my distant cousins have left but some branches were loaded, others poor. In the case of this small Bissett family of West Virginia their application has been written for them should you in the future decide to offer such special memberships and should they become interested. There are many others I am certain would like an association with The Royal O'Neills. I might, when I become established. That is the kind of thing you brag about, whether you live in West Virginia or belong to the New York City elite. This would further increase your dynasty's "social capital" and your association's bank account. Buy up property to become the greatest landholders in Northern Ireland. I doubt I am suggesting anything you have not already thought of in some form or another. DinDraithou (talk) 21:41, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DinDraithou, just had an interesting experiment done with DNA. There has been talk for sometime about there being a Bisset origin to some of the MacKeon/MacIan families that are along the Antrim coast of Ireland. We took my DNA and some others from proven O'Neill lines going back to that timeframe and compared them with the Scottish DNA group and the Bissets themselves. I was surprised when I was told "no link". Frankly I expected it, but no at all. Perhaps a female link, but no male. Surprising. Cheers, Princeton03Princeton03 (talk) 15:15, 10 May 2011 (UTC).[reply]

I just tried to post a long message and this stupid thing screwed it up and lost it. Anyway, I've seen you in their project so thank you for helping them. I'll come back on this female line business. Nora lives (talk) 22:09, 3 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Your recent edits

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Proposed deletion of Seán O'Neill, 3rd Earl of Tyrone

The article Seán O'Neill, 3rd Earl of Tyrone has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Did you actually read the sources contained in that article? Really read what was written. Just because something is not easily available in your local library does not mean it isn't true. Micheline Walsh Kearney's research in the 1960s using Spanish archives proves beyond a doubt that the family existed for 60+ years after English sources wrote it off. Take the time to educate yourself. Princeton03 (talk) 00:39, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of Patrick O'Neill, 1st Count of Tyrone

The article Patrick O'Neill, 1st Count of Tyrone has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

There was no "Sean O'Neill, son of Hugh O'Neill", so this character is also an invention.

Really, there are books upon books that acurately document the life and times of Sean/John/Juan O'Neill, the son of Hugh Rua O'Neill. Read any of the listed sources on the website and you'll see the English, Spanish, Irish, and Flemish all can account for his life and times. Princeton03 (talk) 00:47, 5 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Hello

Could you please provide more information on the source you added in this edit? It is quite vague, and should usually include ISBN, publisher, year published ectera, and sometimes page number of attribution. Mabuska ^(talk) 13:17, 11 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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