User talk:Steyncham

Image copyright problem with Image:MW-small.jpg

Image Copyright problem

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Gabarrou

I hope you don't mind but I have moved your Patrick Gabarrou article into mainspace, crediting you. That way I can link to it. Thanks, Ericoides 12:14, 2 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

License tagging for File:Yves Bréchet.jpg

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Links to user pages and sandboxes

Please do not introduce links in actual articles to user pages or sandboxes, as you did at Property graphs. Since these pages have not been accepted as articles, user pages, sandboxes and drafts are not suitable for linking in articles. and such links are contrary to the Manual of Style. These links have been deleted, please do not re-add any such links, thank you - Arjayay (talk) 14:01, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WePlanet moved to draftspace

Thanks for your contributions to WePlanet. Unfortunately, I do not think it is ready for publishing at this time because it needs more sources to establish notability, it is promotional and reads like an advertisement and while the first Guardian article ("A long overdue moment?") is decent, however the rest of the sources are more what the organisation has to say, rather than what people are saying about the organisation, which is what is required to meet the criteria. Additionally, while the Guardian article has some third party commentary from, e.g. Percival, Parr and Monbiot, the article here focuses exclusively on the organisations's own views, making it unbalanced by our policies. I have converted your article to a draft which you can improve, undisturbed for a while.

Please see more information at Help:Unreviewed new page. When the article is ready for publication, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page OR move the page back. Alpha3031 (t • c) 14:28, 26 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello

I have a hard time understanding why this article would not pass the notability criterion : I cite 6 articles from the Guardian and one from the Wall Street Journal that explicitly mention the organization (under its forme name of replanet) and the corresponding campaigns that are mentioned in the text

What should I do before submitting the article for review? Steyncham (talk) 15:38, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You seem to imply that the journalists from the Guardian are just presenting the view point of WePlanet : but these articles are written by independent journalists, whose job it is to provide a balanced viewpoint, , not by representatives of the organization they talk about! If a newspaper like the Guardian does not count as a valid secondary source, which does??? Steyncham (talk) 15:45, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Steyncham. Sorry I didn't see this reply here earlier, it seems that I may have explained things poorly.

First, in terms of notability for organisations and companies, we actually have three different tests that are sometimes conflated: whether a source is secondary, independence of the author and independence of the content, and a source must pass all three (as well as reliability and substantiality).

Second, the tone of the article is entirely separate from notability: an article subject might be extremely notable but also have a promotional article, or have a perfectly neutral article but not be notable. You are entirely correct that one does not affect the other, but both types of article might end up converted to draft.

Now, for specifics:

As an example, we can take the WSJ article "Nuclear Power’s Rebound Causes Rift Among Environmentalists", currently the 9th reference. It is used to verify that nuclear is most visible rift between the newer environmental organizations like WePlanet and the older established ones, but it does not actually mention RePlanet. While the inference might be obvious, using it as a source in this way is damaging to text–source integrity and may be inappropriate synthesis in many cases. More relevant to whether an article is published or not, it it fails the substantiality test, or "significant coverage", as it does not address the topic of the article directly and in-detail, and therefore could not be counted as one of the core references establishing notability.

"Ban European flights and car use in cities to hurt Putin, report urges", on the other hand, is fine for supporting the sentence it is linked to, but would fail several different tests. First of which, substantiality, because while it's all related to WePlanet, almost none of it is actually about WePlanet, and so it's not really possible to support anything beyond the sentence "they wrote this report". But while it passes on independence of the author, it also has very little independent content. Finally, because it mostly repeats and summarises the report, it does not make sufficient analytic or evaluative claims about the report, it is not considered a secondary source with respect to the report itself or WePlanet (though both the report itself and the Guardian article might be considered a secondary source for the topic of, say, "use of gas in Europe").

I could go on, but I think it would be easier if I left things for questions, so that I could answer anything you're actually unsure about instead of expanding on everything. Just a quick overview of the newly added sources: a lot of them don't mention the article subject. They would immediately fail substantiality, so unless you really must use one of them, it is better to remove them. They really just clutter things up and make it harder for an article reviewer to see the articles that do pass the tests. The GMWatch articles seem OK on that regard, but I've not looked into whether they have reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. On to style and tone.

Tone is a matter of article text specifically, so it doesn't matter what your sources are at this stage. As an encyclopedic work, we do not abide subjective or aesthetic statements in our own voice, and care should be taken not to simply repeat rhetoric when we describe the argument taking place. We can say what the viewpoints are, but, especially for advocacy organisations, we are not here to make arguments for or against them. This is different from news style, and even the best news sources may need to be rewritten in tone to be used on Wikipedia.

As an example, the article states older environmental NGOs and established green parties, which have often stuck to anti-technology positions inherited from the 20th century, [...] question the relevance of this ideological legacy. This would not really be out of place in a news article, which blends fact, analysis and opinion, sometimes as quotes, sometimes without attribution (though, checking the source cited, it does not in fact support this phrasing). This is not at all appropriate on Wikipedia, and in fact prohibited by policy.

Even if it were an actual quote, and demarcated with quotation marks, it would be dubious to include. This campaign intends to raise awareness about all the negative impacts of the use of charcoal as a fuel, especially for deforestation and indoor pollution. "The campaign aims to be a catalyst for change, driving widespread adoption of sustainable alternatives and prompting governments to enforce regulations that protect forests and promote responsible land management practices" is a second example: There is just no reason to include the quote here, it's meaningless fluff made to sound good, especially when there's plenty of more informative content you can pull from the two sources, like "UN FAO says deforestation 4 times faster" or "258k deaths from indoor air pollution" or "these are the 5 key strategies of the campaign" (not in those words of course). Like seriously, don't pick aspirational fluff over telling people what the campaign will even do! Works written in other styles might (appropriately) prioritise those things, so it can be hard to adjust, but the content here needs to be appropriate for an encyclopedia, even if it might make it dry and boring (it doesn't have to be dry and boring, and ideally it shouldn't be, but if that's what it takes to remove the promotional tone, then start from there).

That's pretty much it on the tone end I think. Again, if you have any questions at all, feel free to shoot me a message, either by starting a new topic on my talk page, or by putting something like {{u|Alpha3031}} in your comment (see Help:Notifications). Good luck! Alpha3031 (t • c) 12:30, 28 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]