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Bilateral relations
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THIS ARTICLE IS IN NEED OF ATTENTION. The article Northern Epirus has multiple issues. The article purports to define a region with a geographical spread from Korce to Gjirokaster regions. As such, much of those regions are inhabited by a Muslim/Orthodox Albanian speaking population(i.e: Kallivretakis, Winnifrith etc) and in the article, it does not take into account the complicated issue of identity amongst Muslim and Orthodox Albanian speakers that was intertwined with the larger question of secession and retention of Albanian sovereignty. The article also fails to refer to peer review material regarding the decisions of the international community in relation to confirming sovereignty of the area to Albania. The article also for contemporary times does not in any way cite the complicated identity issues involved amongst Orthodox Albanians and Greek identity and migration, post 1992. This part needs to be addressed regarding the matter of how Greeks are counted and their numbers in Albania. There are also uncited and wp:POV claims in the article that refer to the burning of many Greek villages in World War Two without no wp:reliable sources given. wp:secondary are also lacking in certain parts of the article.Resnjari (talk) 20:25, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This article needs to be highlighted in a more positive way. I entered today some flags for the issues that seem to be around Northern Epirus. There are no official claims on the Greek side so saying that "the issue is still unsettled" is a nationalistic POV. We need to say that the issues are settled, that the Greek government might still be unsatisfied but the issue of Northern Epirus is a non-issue. It becomes such only in Wikipedia. --Sulmues Let's talk 15:51, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I've done some rewording in this section. At least we have a happy ending now.Alexikoua (talk) 17:30, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
During WWII there have been close contacts between Albanian partisans and EAM. I think we can expand that section with a lot of material. Anyway since the indipendence of Greece there have been various collaboration between the Greek government and political actors in Albania which was still under Ottoman Empire. If I am not wrong even a proposal for a common Greek-Albanian kingdom was put into place. Is this the right article to put it? Aigest (talk) 09:11, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Maybe a seperate article is a good idea. A Xhenel Gjoleka article is also needed.Alexikoua (talk) 22:41, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
A good (and impartial) book we should use is "Collective memory, national identity, and ethnic conflict: Greece, Bulgaria ... By Victor Roudometof. pages 155-164 [1].--Sulmues Let's talk 16:19, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Although the Greeks claim him as a Greek, it will always be a problem for the Albanians to accept that he wasn't an Albanian. Let's reach consensus here about how to represent him in the article so that edit-warring is avoided. --Sulmues Let's talk 13:26, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
He was born an Albanian but I guess he had Greek citizenship. I guess a reverse Pirro Dhima case, but more complicated. I took off the template of Northern Epirus, because it was out of place. He was born Albanian, went to Greece, came back to Albania as a bishop and then was expelled to Greece because of his Greek citizenship (otherwise he would have been shot). I'm bringing him here so that we discuss him here, rather than at the talk page. --Sulmues Let's talk 13:37, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- It's really sad to ignore this board and make initiatives that are at least disruptive. The move of Eulogios Kourilas to Evllogji Kurilla, is a action of bad-faith and unwillingnes of cooperation. Too bad, not a single discussion but just a combined action.Alexikoua (talk) 15:08, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
User:Balkanian`s word most likely had no clue about the board. And this is not a combined action, but he brought a good source and I endorsed his action by my subsequent edits. However I notified him here, so that next time he has any moves that might be deemed problematic he comes to the board first. --Sulmues Let's talk 16:17, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Balkanian knows very well that he should discuss the issue in the talk page at least, something he didn't. I doubt if it is a good source. Actually it is nothing more than an enigmatic snippet we dont know even who wrote this.Alexikoua (talk) 21:48, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Hm, please AGF. Balkanian had been stale for a month until today [2].--Sulmues Let's talk 21:57, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Well. We can wait for him.Alexikoua (talk) 22:08, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It seems like this edit is not wanted by user:Athenean, who wrote in FPaS's page [3]. I don't understand why Athenean doesn't agree with having references on the Souliotes' ethnicity. More than 10 references were provided for that. I think we need to reduce the number of references but IMHO it has to be stated in the article what their ethnicity was. --Sulmues Let's talk 21:12, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Do you mean anthropological? That seems like nazi stuff. Hard to back up. A population is distinguished by language, land and customs. They spoke Albanian, lived in Albanian land, and had Albanian customs: hard to find RS that they were Greek before the Greek War of Independence. --Sulmues Let's talk 14:17, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
 All outstanding issues with the article Souliotes have been resolved as of 2015.Resnjari (talk) 20:25, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
As I have explained to Athenean some times before [4] there is a big problem about the published books in Greece and Albania. IMO before starting or improving articles it would have been much better to discuss the sources which should be used first here. Aigest (talk) 09:23, 4 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree and that's why in this Current task and Projects, for each article we can discuss the sources. The reason why I don't want a generic "references" thread is that every article will require some sources rather than others. For example I remember that Megistias disputed using Vickers for 19th century pashaliks and I think he was right: She and Pettifer aren't historians specialized in medieval issues. --Sulmues Let's talk 21:41, 14 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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