Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of New York Islanders head coaches
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- The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The list was promoted by Scorpion0422 23:14, 20 January 2009 [1].
previous FLC (20:34, 19 June 2008)
iMatthew // talk // 15:24, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Quick comment You used the wrong type of dash in the year ranges. Use en dashes (–), not em dashes (—). See this sample edit. Dabomb87 (talk) 17:45, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. iMatthew // talk // 19:12, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It also needs a playoff win percentage column—see List of Montreal Canadiens head coaches. Dabomb87 (talk) 20:12, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. iMatthew // talk // 20:25, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Al Arbour is still missing a statistic for winning % in the playoffs. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:01, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh, that first one is a combination of both of his coaching seasons. Can you help me find the individual season Win% for the playoffs? I can't find them anywhere. iMatthew // talk // 21:07, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Is it not right here? Dabomb87 (talk) 22:17, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Nope, that's for the expanded seasons, (eg, for season 1, 2, 3, 4). I need to find the % for an average of 1, 2, 3, 4. iMatthew // talk // 22:28, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Just do the math yourself. Don't worry about OR, that would a bit too strict. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:30, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I was never good in math, would I add them all together and divide by whatever? iMatthew // talk // 23:45, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Just do the math yourself. Don't worry about OR, that would a bit too strict. Dabomb87 (talk) 22:30, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Nope, that's for the expanded seasons, (eg, for season 1, 2, 3, 4). I need to find the % for an average of 1, 2, 3, 4. iMatthew // talk // 22:28, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Is it not right here? Dabomb87 (talk) 22:17, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh, that first one is a combination of both of his coaching seasons. Can you help me find the individual season Win% for the playoffs? I can't find them anywhere. iMatthew // talk // 21:07, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Al Arbour is still missing a statistic for winning % in the playoffs. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:01, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
(outdent) Never mind, I will do it. Dabomb87 (talk) 00:49, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Thank you! iMatthew // talk // 00:56, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. I will provide a full review of the article later. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:51, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Truco
Comments from Truco (talk · contribs)
- There have been 14 head coaches for the Islanders franchise. The team's first head coach was Phil Goyette, who coached for one complete season from 1972 to 1973. - remove the "complete", the sentence still says the same without it and it flows better
- Phil Goyette, Earl Ingarfield, Bill Stewart, and current coach Scott Gordon are the only coaches who spent their entire careers with the Islanders and were not elected to the Hockey Hall of Fame. - since Goyetter is already mentioned before, just mention him by his last name
- Al Arbour is the only coach having been inducted to the Hockey Hall of Fame. - IMO, to have sounds better than "having"
- Al Arbour, Terry Simpson, Peter Laviolette, Steve Stirling, and Ted Nolan are the only coaches to have ever coached the team going into the playoffs - no need for "going", the sentence still says the same without it and it flows better
- Achievements column: Stanley Cup Champions (1980, 1981, 1982, 1983) - should be Stanley Cup Championship (1980, 1981, 1982, 1983)--Truco 19:03, 10 January 2009 (UTC)
- Done. iMatthew // talk // 19:12, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Rlendog
Nice list. I do have a few comments:
- The list should be sortable - at least alphabetically by last name, and in order of all the numeric categories.
- See below, but what should I sort?. iMatthew // talk // 20:05, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Are there any free images available to illustrate the list? Ted Nolan at least seems to have a free image available.
- Per the MOS for images, they can't be facing the right side of the computer and be right aligned. iMatthew // talk // 20:05, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Per WP:MOS, "It is often preferable to place images of faces so that the face or eyes look toward the text." This is a preference, not a requirement. If there is a choice, use an image facing the text, but if the only problem with the only available image is that it faces the wrong way, I don't think that should exclude its use. Rlendog (talk) 22:20, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Per the MOS for images, they can't be facing the right side of the computer and be right aligned. iMatthew // talk // 20:05, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Overtime/shootout losses are presented in the key, but are not included in the list
- Done.
- I wouldn't oppose FL if this is not done, but I believe these lists should have a section showing the combined record of coaches with multiple terms. For example, List of San Francisco Giants managers. In this case only Al Arbour would need to be shown there. Rlendog (talk) 04:02, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- With regards to sortability, it cannot be done for these types of lists. There have been requests for previous head coach lists, but it doesn't work. The multiple-tenure table seems unnecessary; the other head coach lists don't do it and readers can easily do the math. As you said, only one coach has had multiple tenures, seems like a lot of extra markup and such for a small thing. Just my opinion. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:40, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree that the combined record list is not a big deal, especially in this case. But I don't understand why sorting can't be done. It works for the List of San Francisco Giants managers as far as I can tell. I'm not sure what is here that would prevent sorting on last name, # wins, # losses, or winning percentage. Rlendog (talk) 19:37, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorting cannot be done because of the colspan on top. Besides, every head coach FL (eg. List of Calgary Flames head coaches, List of Oklahoma City Thunder head coaches, List of Denver Broncos head coaches) don't have sorting. And they should be consistent.—Chris! ct 19:59, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- It would be better then to use a different heading that permits sorting, because that can be very useful to readers. For example, it makes it easier to find the particular coach you are looking for, or to see the coaches in an order of particular interest to you, such as number of wins. But I take your point that many of these lists have already been promoted using the same format you are using, and so if that is the consensus for what is appropriate for a featured list, that will not uphold my support. See my comment above re the photo. Rlendog (talk) 22:20, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- All we want right now is consistency. If you do want the List of (NHL team) head coaches articles to have the sort function on the list, then please ask WP:HOCKEY, since it is their concern. -- SRE.K.A
nnoyomous.L.24 review me 06:42, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]- Per FL criteria: "Structure. It is easy to navigate, and includes—where helpful—section headings and table sort facilities." So looking at it from the standpoint of the FL criteria, sorting would be helpful on these lists. So it is not necessarily a WP:HOCKEY issue, but a WP:FLC issue, that may happen to affect some hockey lists. But, I value consistency and, like I said, I will not withhold support for this list due to the fact that the list is not sortable. Rlendog (talk) 18:06, 17 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- All we want right now is consistency. If you do want the List of (NHL team) head coaches articles to have the sort function on the list, then please ask WP:HOCKEY, since it is their concern. -- SRE.K.A
- It would be better then to use a different heading that permits sorting, because that can be very useful to readers. For example, it makes it easier to find the particular coach you are looking for, or to see the coaches in an order of particular interest to you, such as number of wins. But I take your point that many of these lists have already been promoted using the same format you are using, and so if that is the consensus for what is appropriate for a featured list, that will not uphold my support. See my comment above re the photo. Rlendog (talk) 22:20, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Sorting cannot be done because of the colspan on top. Besides, every head coach FL (eg. List of Calgary Flames head coaches, List of Oklahoma City Thunder head coaches, List of Denver Broncos head coaches) don't have sorting. And they should be consistent.—Chris! ct 19:59, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree that the combined record list is not a big deal, especially in this case. But I don't understand why sorting can't be done. It works for the List of San Francisco Giants managers as far as I can tell. I'm not sure what is here that would prevent sorting on last name, # wins, # losses, or winning percentage. Rlendog (talk) 19:37, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- With regards to sortability, it cannot be done for these types of lists. There have been requests for previous head coach lists, but it doesn't work. The multiple-tenure table seems unnecessary; the other head coach lists don't do it and readers can easily do the math. As you said, only one coach has had multiple tenures, seems like a lot of extra markup and such for a small thing. Just my opinion. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:40, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I think I am done with your requests. iMatthew // talk // 16:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support - All issues were resolved. I have some lingering reservations over the lack of sortability, but that is an issue that is currently under discussion at WP:HOCKEY, and so in light of consensus on these lists until now, I believe this list meets the criteria. Rlendog (talk) 19:57, 18 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:33, 18 January 2009 (UTC) [reply]Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)
- "The Islanders have played their home games"-->The Islanders play their home games
- "The team's first head coach was Phil Goyette, who coached for one season from 1972 to 1973." Simplify the wording; note that he did not coach the full season: "The team's first head coach was Phil Goyette, who coached the team for part of the 1972–73 season.
- "game wins (740); Arbour is also"-->game wins (740); he is also
- "Goyette, Earl Ingarfield, Bill Stewart, and current coach Scott Gordon are the only coaches who spent their entire careers with the Islanders and were not elected to the Hockey Hall of Fame."-->Goyette, Earl Ingarfield, Bill Stewart, and current coach Scott Gordon are the only coaches who spent their entire careers with the Islanders and have not been elected to the Hockey Hall of Fame.
- You only have to write out "Al Arbour"'s full name once. After that, use his last name.
- "Al Arbour, Terry Simpson, Peter Laviolette, Steve Stirling, and Ted Nolan are the only coaches to have
evercoached the team into the playoffs." - It would be preferable if you could find a [free] image of a coach instead of the arena. Dabomb87 (talk) 18:47, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Will look. iMatthew // talk // 20:05, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- All done but the image. iMatthew // talk // 20:05, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Will look. iMatthew // talk // 20:05, 16 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I think I am done with your requests. iMatthew // talk // 16:14, 18 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Move the image to the left so that it is facing the page; some FAs start with a left-aligned image, such as Joseph Priestley. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:17, 18 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Done. iMatthew // talk // 16:20, 18 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Move the image to the left so that it is facing the page; some FAs start with a left-aligned image, such as Joseph Priestley. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:17, 18 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 16:33, 18 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from -- SRE.K.Annoyomous.L.24[c]
- Could add the team captain with the last sentence in the first paragraph (ie. List of Tampa Bay Lightning head coaches).
- Reference for Garth Snow being a former goalie of Islanders.
- Phil Goyette should be wikilinked.
- In achievements, could add the Arbour won the Jack Adams Award in 1978-79.
- See also section should be removed because the first one is on the navbox, and the other two are not related to the article.
- "A running total of the number of coaches of the Panthers." The Panthers? LOL, you copied one of my featured lists.
- "Arbour replaced Ted Nolan as an interim head coach for one game." reference? Also include the reason why.
Resolved comments from Nurmsook
Comments by Nurmsook (talk · contribs)
- The team's first head coach was Phil Goyette, who... -> Phil Goyette should be wikilinked
- In Al Arbour's achievements section, make note of his Jack Adams award (mention it in the lead as well) and wikilink Stanley Cup Championship to List of Stanley Cup champions (it's linked to a dab page at the moment)
- In Scott Gordon's term length, you need an endash, not a dash, in the wikilink to the 2008–09 NHL season
- I see no reason why List of current NHL captains or List of NHL players should be in the see also section, and the List of NHL head coaches is covered in the template at the bottom of the page. I'd say get rid of the whole see also section, but those first two links especially.
- Note A states A running total of the number of coaches of the Panthers.
- Ref 16 (Arbour replaced Ted Nolan as an interim head coach for one game.) should be moved to the notes section as you should include a reference for the statement.
- You don't need nowiki tags around the endashes in the coaches table. Just takes up extra bandwidth. – Nurmsook! talk... 01:28, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Your comments 1, 2, 4, and 6 all relates to my comments. Laugh out loud. -- SRE.K.A
nnoyomous.L.24 review me 01:31, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Support: Everything looks good to me now. Good job! – Nurmsook! talk... 20:59, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Done with all of your comments. Except Nurmsook's last comment. I don't see it's much of an issue. iMatthew // talk // take my poll // 02:16, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- You do his first, but not mine? Laugh out loud with all due respect. -- SRE.K.A
nnoyomous.L.24 review me 02:18, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]- What? No, I am done with your comments and his. You should have checked the page first. iMatthew // talk // take my poll // 02:23, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Ahh...should have said that you finished both our comments. Anyways, I'll Support when everyone else Supports, since that's how I roll. ;p -- SRE.K.A
nnoyomous.L.24 review me 02:36, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Ahh...should have said that you finished both our comments. Anyways, I'll Support when everyone else Supports, since that's how I roll. ;p -- SRE.K.A
- What? No, I am done with your comments and his. You should have checked the page first. iMatthew // talk // take my poll // 02:23, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.