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July 5

Writing a New Article

I'm so confused about making an article. I don't know how to make it look like all the other articles. the help tutorials confuse me so bad. i want to write about a christian band called the jason lovins band. I defninitely feel it should exist. if i could have some basic steps that would be very nice of wikipedia. thank you. Satanwilldie (talk) 01:41, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Before creating an article, please search Wikipedia first to make sure that an article does not already exist on the subject. Please also review a few of our relevant policies and guidelines which all articles should comport with. As Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, articles must not contain original research, must be written from a neutral point of view, should cite to reliable sources which verify their content and must not contain unsourced, negative content about living people.

Articles must also demonstrate the notability of the subject. Please see our subject specific guidelines for people, bands and musicians, companies and organizations and web content and note that if you are closely associated with the subject, our conflict of interest guideline strongly recommends against you creating the article.

If you still think an article is appropriate, see Help:Starting a new page. You might also look at Wikipedia:Your first article and Wikipedia:How to write a great article for guidance, and please consider taking a tour through the Wikipedia:Tutorial so that you know how to properly format the article before creation. Algebraist 01:42, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

First, remember the most important thing in any article is THE REFERENCES. Without them, your article might face dangerous consequences. There are many ways of citing references, but the simplest is to use the <ref></ref> tag. You must also remember to add {{reflist}} or </references> at the references section.

You may develop your article in your own user space before presenting it to everybody.

Secondly, remember to add links. Your article must link to lots of other articles, and lots of other articles must link to yours. Otherwise, you will end up having an orphaned article.

Thirdly, remember to add infoboxes. Infoboxes are very helpful because they put the most important info of an article inside.

Lastly, remember to make it look like other articles. I've once seen an article that doesn't use the ==Section== code, and use horizontal lines between sections instead. DO NOT TRY THIS. You must wikify your article properly.

Good luck! All the best, Kayau (Talk to me! See what I've done! Sign my guestbook!) 03:48, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

An extra tip: When I was new, I'd often find a well-written article on a similar subject (another school if I was making a school article, or another website if I was writing an article on a website). I'd then compare the article I was writing to the already existing one. That way, I knew what infoboxes and section format to use. It can give you a good start. hmwith τ 17:02, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

- I agree with hmwith - as a novice, I still look at other similar articles (for example, I created a stub for a ship, so I looked at the article for a similar ship, and used that as a 'template' - remember, if you get anything wrong, you can edit it yourself, or one of the many other editors around the world will do it! PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 19:17, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

- Very true - I actually (lazily) copied the infobox from the Call of the Wild to the Sea-Wolf because the info is pretty much the same. All the best, Kayau (Talk to me! See what I've done! Sign my guestbook!) 14:26, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieving articles

I code an Eggdrop bot for IRC, and we are working having it return searches from inside IRC. When I send for a webpage on en.wikipedia.org, I get a webpage back that gives the following error output: <html><head> </head><body> <p>The document has moved <a href="http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Space">here</a>.</p> (And even if I try to go to that link, it returns the same link) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Callcentermonkey (talk • contribs) 05:45, 5 July 2009 (UTC) When I retrieve with my web browser, it works fine.[reply]

Any suggestions on what I may be doing incorrectly?

--Callcentermonkey (talk) 05:40, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You may want to ask at the technical village pump. The only reason I can think up of for the error is incorrect program code. Calvin 1998 ^(t·c) 06:22, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'll ask over there; I don't suspect the code, because it works with Yahoo's weather, and CNN's news feeds. Doesn't rule it out, but you can understand why I suspect otherwise :) --Callcentermonkey (talk) 07:19, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

how do i write in here

how do i write in here —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.65.3.30 (talk) 06:33, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:EDIT. On your other post, which has been removed; we can only answer questions on using Wikipedia on this page, we can't provide solutions to your personal problems. Chamal ^talk 06:46, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

i dont get it how do i make title in talk box —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.65.3.30 (talk) 07:18, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Check this page. Jacek Kendysz 13:41, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I had IntrudersAlert from bonzi.com years ago and had lost it by now disposing of my PC.

i'm using public computer now. i had owned PC in 2003 with IA on by purchase untill April 27 or so 2004. i had to sell the computer before expiration date. i wrote about it on emails by public computers at the times when did. i didn't use the data from software against others except for once when informing ISP about intruder by phone. i had BonziBuddy on computer too. Then it was not attainable anymore when in 2005 i bought newly computer privately honestly for personal use only bt failed this too. i wrote recently to some sites that had known me from on computer. Last week to surfsecret.com, i had PrivacyProtector then. i disposed of pc about last year(i think it was netvission or bezequint.net.il that i tel. to about intruder then and it was from Europe) I'm sure it is that intentional schemes troublesome malice at me and unreason relentlessly plotted persists and schemed) i had BonziBuddy Gold once only to notice corruptions file on by unknown controlls from outside functions, sources unknown to me and not familiar). i'm innocently if some partitions were on the computer/s i bought years ago though not knowing that before then. I don't have private comm. line comm. but address i was allowed to submit is here: eyun1@walla.co.il. i shouldn't expect replies nor do i want to involve others innocent people with my troubles though had been at sometimes.) i missed Bonzi. i don't have PC now. i once on owned computer i think in 2008 had won prize but was afraid to submit my details for collecting money on the computer i had) i was reg. in pogo.com then too, and had PCBugDoctor on PC) i had email address [removed]) Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.90.5.202 (talk) 08:08, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 6 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 09:01, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

IE8 issues

Hi, I recently upgraded my browser from IE7 to IE8, and have found it has adversely affected the functionality of wikipedia. When i edit an article or page, such as this, there is a small lag between when i type and when the words appear on the screen, and more annoyingly when i copy and paste things into wikipedia edit boxes the centering of my screen jumps around all over the place. any ideas how to solve this? it's really bugging me and making me not want to edit!! 140.247.251.65 (talk) 13:34, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well, can't you switch to another browser, e.g. Opera? It is much more better than IE. Jacek Kendysz 13:38, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Or Firefox. Cureden 14:26, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with IE is that it doesn't always format webpages correctly. This isn't just with Wikipedia; it's with all webpages. You may just not realize it. It's the default browser that comes on Windows, but, as others above me mentioned, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is the best browser or that you should keep using it. I also recommend Mozilla Firefox. It's pretty similar to IE appearance-wise, so you will get used to it quickly. hmwith τ 16:56, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Try the IE7 compatibility mode. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 21:41, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to be working fine now. Are you using the beta version? Try downloading the final version of IE8 from Microsoft. --Tyw7 (Talk • Contributions) 13:26, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Invisible "Reference Section"

I have just added three new references on my article. I have followed the usual referencing code for my footnotes, however, my "Reference Section" is blocked and I could not access to edit it. My references on the "Reference Section" are not visible either. Would you please help me access my reference section so that i can re-arrange my new footnotes "numerals". Thank you for your kind attention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Palengkero (talk • contribs) 13:42, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The order the references appear in the references section depend on the order they appear in the article. For example, "Ismael Mathay Sr. High School: A Historical Perspective, George Magno Prado, January 8, 2005." appears first because it is the first reference that appears in the article. The leftorium 13:46, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have overhauled the entire article's references, expanding their attribution information and formatting some with citation templates such as {{cite web}}. You were having a problem, in that you had named three references all the same. Specifically, you had named a reference <ref name="bar">, and the next two times you attempted to add different references, you named them also <ref name="bar">, which meant they would not show up as separate references. You cannot have different references named the same. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:56, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It sounds as if the questioner was unaware of the word "bar" is a bit of computer programming lore. When the words "foo" or "bar" appear in a software instruction manual, they are placeholder names that tell the reader to type something else for them. (The fancy name is Metasyntactic variable.) This is like referring to a person as "John Doe" - the reader should understand that it does not literally refer to a person named John Doe. See Foobar. --Teratornis (talk) 19:11, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Fuhghettaboutit for your time and attention in overhauling my REFERENCE SECTION. Much appreciated. Is it possible though to make the contents of my REFERENCE SECTION be visible for future editing? I clicked the 'edit' but my references are still invincible. Why is it so? – — … ‘ “ ’ ” ° ″ ′ ≈ ≠ ≤ ≥ ± − × ÷ ← → · §

Teratornis, what exactly is the right code to use so that my references are visible as soon as "someone" clicks the "edit" botton of my REFERENCE SECTION? I was truly unaware of the word "Bar" wikipediawise. Please enlighten me more. I just follow all instructions that I read in Wikipedia. Thanks. InsertWiki markupSymbolsLatinGreekCyrillicHebrewArabicIPA – — … ‘ “ ’ ” ° ″ ′ ≈ ≠ ≤ ≥ ± − × ÷ ← → · §

References made with <ref>...</ref> are never visible when you click edit at the references section. They are only visible in the source when you edit the section where they were written, or you edit the whole page with "edit this page" at the top. See more at Wikipedia:Footnotes. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:48, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

PrimeHunter, I noted your advise and I have saved these messages here in my word files in case you delete July 5 messages. Thanks for your time in replying. I will apply this in the future. – — … ‘ “ ’ ” ° ″ ′ ≈ ≠ ≤ ≥ ± − × ÷ ← → · §

Categorizing images

How do I categorize an image after it has been uploaded? I've checked here and it says how to categorize an image during uploading, but not after it has been uploaded. Wikiert ^T ^S ^C 15:22, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The same way you categorize an article. Simply add [[Category:Name of category]] at the end of the page, after any summaries or descriptions. (If your image is freely licensed and on Wikimedia Commons, then categorize there.) Xenon54 (talk) 15:26, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

1988 chevy blazer

I have a 1988 chev blazer with electric windows. the windows are not working and I need a diagram of the 1988 chev blazer electric window to assist me in tracking down the problem. All the sites I go to want to charge for the diagram can you please help me.

otis

<email removed> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.22.212.214 (talk) 15:46, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This page is for questions about using Wikipedia. Please consider asking this question at the Wikipedia:Reference desk. The leftorium 15:54, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please remove the following line from the following page

Please remove the following line from the following page:

LINE: (References): 12. Brandon Traister. "The World War II Lecture Institute". Archived from the original on 2009-04-29. http://www.webcitation.org/5gP5aIWlh. Retrieved on 2009-03-28.

This link is longer available/active.

Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Traister (talk • contribs) 16:45, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The website says "Webcitation.org is undergoing maintenance and will be back shortly," are you sure it's not coming back? The leftorium 16:54, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As leftorium says, the website says it will be back shortly - the citation should be left, so that when webcitation have completed their maintenance, the link will be working. The fact that anyone following the link gets a clear message saying what is happening (rather than a 404 page) makes it a valid link. If the link no longer works after their maintenance, then it would be right to either remove the citation, or change it to reflect where the new item is. PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 19:13, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Contributing

Hello, I'm quite familiar with Wikipedia but I am looking for more tasks to get engaged in on here. I very much enjoy contributing to this project & am a bit of a WikiHolic! When I started I was just helping clean out WP:BL and patrolling WP:RCP & WP:NPP, other than that nothing much. As of recent I am trying to expand my contributions among the other namespaces such as Category, File, Wikipedia, Template & Portal. I would like to recieve my own mop one day so I can get more involved in the project (Things like WP:Xfd, WP:RFPP & other tasks at WP:AN). I'm intrested to know, For somebody who wishes to serve wikipedia as an admin in the future what areas should I be focusing my attention to now? Also could you suggest some ways I could help in the other namespaces I specified above, Thanks. Harlem675 18:50, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Speaking to your interest in the File: namespace, you might spend some time getting to know Wikimedia Commons, which is ultimately where we want to move all the freely-licensed files. Ideally, Wikipedia should not have anything in its File: namespace except for fair-use files that are unsuitable for Commons.

As to gaining an overall understanding of what needs fixing and how to fix it (whether on Wikipedia or Commons), you could read the Help desk and Village pump pages on both sites. Try answering questions when you are able. See Wikipedia:Help desk/How to answer. Reading about the problems that users report will show pretty quickly where the needs are. --Teratornis (talk) 19:05, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you're bored, check out WP:BACKLOG. You can also participate on the help desk, the reference desk, and comment at RfAs and WP:RFCN. hmwith τ 19:28, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also, since you like pictures, check out WP:Featured picture candidates. hmwith τ 19:29, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Wikipedia media renaming requests and Category:Non-free Wikipedia file size reduction request are both places dealing with files that could use some help. The work there is quite easy as well.--Rockfang (talk) 19:30, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thankyou very much for the quick & helpful responses, I will take the advice on board. Not to be annoying here but would anyone have some work for me to do in Template, Category & Portal namespaces too I currently neglect these areas but want to help in them. Harlem675 19:37, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

After a quick look at your contributions (from when you first started in June 2009?), it strikes me that you have not created any articles from scratch? Although you could become an admin without necessarily doing this (or adding significantly to an existing article), I would venture to suggest that this prevents you from being a well-rounded Wikipedian. Also, you probably learn more from this (including people's edits to improve your contribution) than from relatively minor edits to articles. I am a novice editor (I've only recently had the time to start editing more), but I find that I learn a lot through my mistakes when creating/editing articles (although I must point out that I don't alway make mistakes!). Unless your history actually extends a lot before June 2009, and I'm misreading your contributions, I would suggest that you work on articles more. Enjoy! PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 19:49, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It might be early to start new articles from scratch, as that can be difficult. From what I've seen of WP:RFA, bringing some articles up to featured status seems to count for more than new articles started. Wikipedia has no shortage of articles, but only a tiny fraction (much less than 1%) are featured articles. If you want to be an admin, then read everything linked from WP:ADMIN and follow WP:RFA for a few months, paying particular attention to the failed RFAs. --Teratornis (talk) 20:29, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

book blurb as reference?

hello, i am working on a page that needs citations. the subject of the page is a writer and photographer. one of the quotes on the page about his work is from a blurb on the back cover of one of his published books. how do i cite this? it can, of course, be seen on amazon and on google books, but i don't imagine these are legitimate references. can you simply cite the book and instead of a page number put 'back cover'? many thanks.Spudsparo1 (talk) 20:22, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The blurb isn't a particularly useful reference, as it's created for advertising, so not a neutral POV, any more than if this is shown on Amazon, etc. I'd say that it wouldn't be considered a valid reference for wikipedia. However, perhaps you could share the text of the blurb, and we could advise more knowledgably! PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 20:28, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Whether the blurb is a valid reference I think may depend on the use you are making of it. If you got something uncontroversial like his age or the names of some of his other works from the blurb, I would say its a reasonably reliable reference for those things. If it's a statement like "this guy is great!" then I would say the blurb is not a good enough reference. By the way, we're talking about James Baker Hall, right? -- Ong saluri (talk) 20:46, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your responses. Yes, I am working on the page about James Baker Hall. Here is the quote (by the poet Gerald Stern): “He makes our terror come alive – and our knowledge and our joy – in his beautiful singing.” I don't know if the blurb was solicited solely for the book. I will search to see if perhaps the comment appears in a review or an article that could be cited. Also, Gerald Stern is one of the most respected and prominent poets in the country (for a confirmation of this, see his Wikipedia entry). My sense is that the quote is not just that Hall is great, but rather points to qualities and meaning of Hall's work. I'm not sure if Stern's stature as an authority, and the particular content of the quote, bears on the validity of using the book quote as a source. I would appreciate advice on this from other editors. Thank youSpudsparo1 (talk) 22:30, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Jacket copy is advertising content, and should never be deemed a reliable source for any substantive matter. Most such quotes were solicited by the publishers, who don't use the less-than-favorable ones. --Orange Mike | Talk 15:15, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If the quote is an excerpt from a published review or article (in a legitimate publication) would that be acceptable as a reliable source? In this case, it would not originally have been written as advertising.Spudsparo1 (talk) 17:56, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As long as that article or review met our reliability guidelines in its own right that would be suitable for inclusion, but then the claim should be cited to the original publication, not to the book blurb that reproduced it. Gonzonoir (talk) 18:07, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Problem with a table

I added a table on inflation to the Economy of Venezuela article (Consumer prices section). Everything is fine, except the vertical size and spacing of some of the table cells is odd. I've made some attempts to fix this formatting problem, but so far without success. Perhaps someone else would like to have a try. I also left a note on the article's talk page about this. Ong saluri (talk) 20:36, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've tidied it up a bit. I'll leave a note on your talk page about it. PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 20:52, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

After Phantomsteve did the hard work, I fixed it so that the section spacing wasn't messed up. Looks good! hmwith τ 20:56, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I was concentrating so hard on the table itself, that I neglected to check the section spacing! Thanks for correcting it, hmwith - and thanks for the compliment :D PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 21:14, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

can you store lard at room temp?

can you store lard at room temp? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.65.3.30 (talk) 21:53, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This page is for questions about using Wikipedia. Please consider asking this question at the Wikipedia:Reference desk. The leftorium 22:17, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure... Anyway, Your in the wrong place. This Help Desk is for resolving issues on Wikipedia. Harlem675 22:19, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I believe lard keeps much longer if you leave it on the cow. And the cow remains alive. All serious aside, animal and vegetable fats are prone to rancidification which can be slowed by refrigeration, or adding antioxidant preservatives. --Teratornis (talk) 20:34, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

hi

i postred a question last night its not here help —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.65.3.30 (talk) 21:55, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's located here: Wikipedia:Help_desk#how_do_i_write_in_here. The leftorium 22:16, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank You

My sister and I found out digging in the family tree, Found she is related as Great Great grand (well you get the idea)Mother

of ours, I just wanted to say THANK YOU for your article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pstolzenburg (talk • contribs) 22:11, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We have around 3 million articles and I don't know which one you refer to, but thanks. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:44, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is a help desk, not a thank-you desk. Please consider thanking somewhere else next time. Maybe you could give out a personal user award to the person who create dyour aricle. All the best, Kayau (Talk to me! See what I've done! Sign my guestbook!) 14:24, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

court arrangments

What does it mean when you don't get a bond when you go to arrangment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.150.76.17 (talk) 22:25, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Our articles on Arraignment and Bail bond might help you. I'm afraid you'll have to ask a lawyer after that, because Wikipedia does not give legal advice. Xenon54 (talk) 22:31, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Actually the legal disclaimer is here. – ukexpat (talk) 01:32, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Petro Mart

Are gas station Petro Mart owned by Chavez? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.216.217.235 (talk) 23:17, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Have you tried Wikipedia's Reference Desk? They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer just about any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link, select the relevant section, and ask away. I hope this helps. Algebraist 23:24, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Won't let me post any regular people

What if you have all of the famous people on here already and you guys won't let me post any regular people which i think is totally un fair but please answer my question????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Haver73 (talk • contribs) 23:46, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We at the help desk can't. You'll have to ask the question at the Reference desk, which you can do by following the link. a little insignificant 23:53, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You posted in the above section about Petro Mart and the previous reply may have thought it was a follow-up from the IP address there. I added a heading to your post. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia with inclusion guidelines like Wikipedia:Notability (people). If you want to write a biography about somebody not satisfying that guideline then you will have to do at a website with other policies, for example WikiPopuli or Biographicon. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:39, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How do you define 'famous'? Felicity O'Dell (who writes books about English) and Mary Jane Sterling (who writes books about Maths) don't have their own articles. All the best, Kayau (Talk to me! See what I've done! Sign my guestbook!) 14:21, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Convert/merge to commons

Will somebody please help me. Please, convert/merge this image File:NationalMedalofArts.jpg to commons. Thank you. Fanoftheworld (talk) 23:54, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Since you tagged it, it should be done shortly. hmwith τ 15:06, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Some images so marked have languished for months without getting moved. Check out the sizable backlog in Category:Copy to Wikimedia Commons. The fastest way to move an image to Commons is to move it yourself. See WP:MITC for instructions. --Teratornis (talk) 20:39, 8 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Uploading an image

I uploaded File:Lolipop.pdf, but the image does not display, and when I attempt to use it in the regular fashion all it produces is a link. It's entirely my own work, and released into the public domain. What am I doing wrong? a little insignificant 23:57, 5 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Recheck your settings in Illustrator. You saved it as a PDF, which is not an image - therefore, MediaWiki won't generate a thumbnail, and all you get is a link. (Try saving as PNG or SVG.) Xenon54 (talk) 00:13, 6 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]