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February 28

[edit]
February 28, 2017 (2017-02-28) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economics
  • The Hershey Company announces it will cut about 15 percent of its global workforce (~2,700 jobs) to return its international businesses to profitability as quickly as possible. The layoffs will have a greater impact on the international workforce. (CNN)

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime
  • 2016–17 Turkish purges
  • German police storm a refugee center in Hamburg after a knife-wielding man barricades himself in a room with a pregnant woman believed to be his partner. The man was injured before he was arrested. (RT)
  • Hundreds of right-wing activists gather to protest the court-ordered demolition of the Israeli settlement Ofra, which was built on private Palestinian land in the West Bank. Israeli police are evacuating nine homes in the settlement, despite hunger strikes and people barricading themselves inside. (RT)
  • The Royal Thai Government has fired Police General Jumpol Manmai for "extremely evil" misconduct and political interests which threatened national security. (Reuters)

Politics and elections

RD: Mostafa El-Abbadi

[edit]
Article: Mostafa El-Abbadi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT obit
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Died in mid-Feb, just being reported by the NYT now. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 03:25, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Leekfrith torcs

[edit]
Closing this, we won't get a consensus to pull. --Tone 12:05, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Leekfrith torcs (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Leekfrith torcs, believed to be the oldest Iron Age gold jewellery found in Britain, are revealed to the public for the first time (Post)
News source(s): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-39113201
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Significant archaeological find; also visually appealing. Described as a "unique find of international importance" by the British Museum. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:00, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Exactly, two blokes found a trove late last year, it wasn't until today that it really became notable. Just like when notification of a death is delayed, we deal with the real news of it (and this) when it's really in the news. And that's now. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:05, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

All those voting support can they explain why is this item notable to ITN beyond being reported by the English-speaking news outlets from the UK? The item was discovered 2 months ago, but now it gets a publicity stunt to attract visitors, and isn't actually archeologically relevant. "of international significance", "unique find" and "truly historic" for tourism indeed. @Pawnkingthree, UNSC Luke 1021, Juliancolton, and 331dot: Nergaal (talk) 19:35, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Your own opinion Nergaal is just that, your own opinion. This is being widely reported, globally, as significant. It doesn't diminish the significance of all those worldly goods you've listed, but this is ITN and this is in the news. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:06, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Nergaal: - The blurb is not wrong. Northern Ireland is part of the UK but not the country of Britain. Also, half of the examples you have specified were uncovered and displayed before ITN or even Wikipedia existed. I don't see the relevancy to the discussion at hand. You can't call it discrimination to not include something if it was discovered back in 1902. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 22:11, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The blurb is actively misleading. If you say something's the oldest Iron Age jewellery found in Great Britain", it'll be read as "the oldest jewellery found in Great Britain, which happens to date to the Iron Age". —Cryptic 21:03, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    So when the BBC say "Two friends have unearthed jewellery which could be the oldest Iron Age gold discovered in Britain.", they're wrong, misleading, what? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:13, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    And actually, I think you're talking bunk, while English is rich with possibilities for many interpretations, your assertion is somewhat flamboyant and derogatory to our audience who I believe can read English as well as the BBC can write it in most cases. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:15, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    Maybe wrong, maybe misleading, maybe misled, maybe just selling clicks. I don't know and neither do you. That doesn't mean we have to use their misleading wording too. —Cryptic 21:19, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    I think I know how to read English and the blurb, and the BBC, are not misleading anyone. If someone misinterprets the blurb, or the BBC, it's their own misinterpretation. We use reliable sources here, and the BBC is one of those. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    @Cryptic: - I speak American English and I can understand it perfectly fine. I don't see what the problem with it is. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 22:00, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - per nom. A significant find indeed. ZettaComposer (talk) 21:21, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Requesting Post - by an uninvolved administrator. The consensus is clearly in favor of posting and the only reason it hasn't already is because of filibustering by Nergaal. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 21:57, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 22:12, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting comment I would not ask this to be pulled, but this clearly better suited as a DYK, given the opposes above and that it is really not that significant a find relative to the whole of human discoveries. It's very much clear a DYK as the oldest finds in England. --MASEM (t) 22:34, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's not the oldest, not even when further restricted from Great Britain to England. There's more than a dozen such listed at List of Bronze Age hoards in Great Britain, for example. —Cryptic 22:46, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • Eh, this story is far too interesting to be condemned to the esoteric, sleep-inducing no-man's land that is DYK. Consensus was overwhelmingly in favor of posting so I'm not sure why a couple opposes would mean it's not suitable for ITN. Moving on, something I hadn't noticed until just now is that "revealed for the first time" may be redundant - thoughts on just "revealed"? – Juliancolton | Talk 23:01, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
      • I'm just going to point out that this was posted in 4 hours from proposing it. The ITNR on Oscars below took 3 hours. This discovery took months to be announced to the public but we can't wait hours to have an involved discussion. Nergaal (talk) 23:10, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, I tend to agree with User:Masem that this item is a little weak. But my main concern here at ITN is to try to prevent the posting of scientifically false crap. So I'm willing to let this one slide. Abductive (reasoning) 23:22, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting oppose and pull - the fact that the blurb says "... found in Britain" (emphasis mine) is great reason to pull this. Logically, there is also oldest iron-age gold hoards in every other country in the world. I see no reason to single out Britain. Banedon (talk) 23:56, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's a shame that we seem to get calls to pull the blurb on everything that isn't a boring ITN/R item or a suicide bombing. Let's try to make ITN a little more engaging and not less, please. – Juliancolton | Talk 04:32, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    I beg to differ. If we did not have significance controls then every nomination that meets the quality standards would be postable (see the RD reform), and that is something we have agreed we don't want [3]. I am in favour of pulling this blurb not because it isn't a boring ITN/R item or a suicide bombing, but because it is at best only nationally significant, and there are 196 countries in the world. If you want to promote more non-ITNR non-suicide bombing items onto ITN, there are a few nominations in the threads below this one. Banedon (talk) 04:59, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    Just because something happens in one place doesn't mean it's only notable in that place. A history curator at the British Museum (which is to say, someone who actually knows what they're talking about) called the discovery important on an international scale. The story is being reported by the Archaeological Institute of America who use the "international importance" quote in their headline, which suggests that wasn't just an offhand remark by an overzealous British patriot. Even if it's not of superlative significance, it's still significant - lots of items we post aren't about the absolute oldest or deadliest or biggest. – Juliancolton | Talk 05:44, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    The curator of the British Museum is of course going to hype his own artifacts. You'll note that the archeology.org site puts "international importance" in inverted commas, implying they are using that as a direct quote and do not necessarily stand by it. The idea of "international importance" is also context-dependent, e.g. if a new archeological find changes the history of Ireland as we know it in the 15th century, and is of interest only to Irish people and historians, one could still claim it to be of "international importance" since Northern Ireland is not part of Ireland currently (but it was in the 15th century). The grand total of countries affected would be two, but that's still international by definition. Banedon (talk) 05:59, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    If you disagree with the expert at the British Museum, or question their motives, feel free not to include this story in your newspaper or website- or take it up with the reliable sources that have included this. If we refused to post things that were only relevant to one nation(assuming we disagree with the expert at the British Museum) very little would be posted here.(which is why we warn against single-country based objections) Part of our mission is to inform and educate readers. I learned something I wasn't aware of before and found it interesting. I don't see the big deal here. 331dot (talk) 08:21, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    I had to re-read what you wrote to be sure of what I'm seeing. You wrote "If you disagree with the expert at the British Museum, or question their motives, feel free ... to take it up with the reliable sources that have included this", which is incredible because it's as though you've never worked with WP:RS before. Here's a comparable example: George Foreman says Floyd Mayweather is better than Muhammad Ali - do you seriously think that means an edit to Floyd Mayweather to say that he's better than Muhammad Ali (citing George Foreman) is justified, and that if you disagree with it, "feel free to take it up with reliable sources"?? All the sources on this topic I've seen cite precisely one expert who calls the discovery of "international significance", when other articles on big discoveries quote many more experts. See e.g. the Trappist-1 discovery, to which news articles quote from involved and uninvolved scientists. If there's anything I learned from this nomination, it's that the bias on ITN is very real. Banedon (talk) 08:52, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    So you believe that the "Please do not oppose an item because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one" should have "unless it's from the UK" added? 331dot (talk) 09:04, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    No. If anything, you should be the one supporting that line, since I am opposing this nomination. I know you'll say something like "but I'm not from the UK". It doesn't matter. Collectively on ITN, we are showing pro-UK bias. Banedon (talk) 09:09, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    I await your nomination of a similar event in another country with similar coverage and importance, I would be happy to support it. The way to address bias is to work in underrepresented areas, not suppress stories from represented areas. 331dot (talk) 09:12, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    Your waiting is over then, since a couple of the nominations in the threads below this are mine ... and I note that you have not commented on them, even though they've been around for a while. Too late since Stephen closed them already. Oh well. Banedon (talk) 09:36, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support happy to see "in the news" posting things that are actually in the news. My thinking aligns with Juliancolton. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 05:53, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

February 27

[edit]
February 27, 2017 (2017-02-27) (Monday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

International relations

Politics and elections

Science and technology
  • SpaceX announces that it will take two space tourists on an orbit of the Moon in 2018. (CNBC)

[Posted] RD: Alex Young

[edit]
Article: Alex Young (footballer, born 1937) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, BBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 —MBlaze Lightning T 19:08, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Article could do with some expansion, and what is there is woefully under-referenced. For someone who played 13+years of top-flight football, that such a career could be summed up in about 12 lines of text seems very inadequate. And there are direct quotes and events from his biography (what little there is) that we have no idea where they come from. The quality is inadequate for the main page. --Jayron32 19:15, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed, the fact it has a template and an entry in the infobox claiming he was manager of Glentoran yet no coverage at all in the article is symptomatic of the gaps in the article. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:39, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I (and another editor) have sourced everything in the article, including the Glentoran managership. Yes, it could do with expansion, but that's irrelevant to ITN because the article adequately summarises his life. Black Kite (talk) 19:51, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    Still not changing my vote, because it does not adequately summarise his life. If you expand it to an adequate summary, I would do so. The article is too poor a quality to post on the main page because large amounts of information about his life and career is missing. Gaps in coverage are a quality issue. --Jayron32 12:53, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • What "gaps in coverage" would you like to be filled? It summarises his career and the highlights of it. Anything else would be simply a list of appearances and goals per season, which is hardly encyclopedic. Black Kite (talk) 20:52, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Goodness. I can pull up articles on 50 footballers whose lead section is longer than this article is in its entirely. They aren't bloated, they're comprehensive. Now, I wouldn't think we're aiming for something as long as Lionel Messi's article is, but if this entire person's verifiable life history can fit on a postcard, why even have a Wikipedia article. It doesn't summarize so much as it hits a few random life points. --Jayron32 03:39, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

February 26

[edit]
February 26, 2017 (2017-02-26) (Sunday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents
  • Millions of residents in the Chilean capital Santiago are left without access to running water after the Maipo River is contaminated by flooding and landslides. At least four people have died in the floods. (BBC)
  • 16 people dead in northern India after a truck carrying villagers to church overturned on a mountain road. (DW)

Politics and elections

Sport

[Posted] 89th Academy Awards

[edit]
Article: 89th Academy Awards (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Moonlight wins Best Picture at the Academy Awards. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ After some initial confusion, Moonlight wins Best Picture at the Academy Awards
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: All but a few awards left. Will adjust blurb depending on which wins best picture MASEM (t) 05:03, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Of unbelievable news stories. Which is just as well, because not believing the news is coincidentally becoming somewhat of a trend for people of all political persuasions (though they differ on which news they don't believe). StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 06:38, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Whereas the Super Bowl going into overtime does have a significant effect on the result of ongoing game and thus the first time it happened was reasonable to include since it would naturally flow, trying to fit this mix-up would be very awkward (particularly since La La Land would have to be mentioned). It is better to serve as a DYK than ITN for that part. --MASEM (t) 06:47, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Gerald Kaufman

[edit]
Article: Gerald Kaufman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sky News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Rcsprinter123 (notify) 00:04, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@The Rambling Man: there's a {{cn}} in the main body - not any more, there isn't :-P Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:15, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Just those publications then? The Rambling Man (talk) 10:16, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Aha, they've disappeared too... The Rambling Man (talk) 10:17, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, because they were unsourced and the main ones are covered in the prose (with sources) now Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 10:18, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Joseph Wapner

[edit]
Article: Joseph Wapner (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Huffington Post, CNN, USA Today
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Judge Wapner, part of my region's history as well as TV history Challenger l (talk) 01:59, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] 2017 Daytona 500

[edit]
No consensus. Stephen 10:37, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: 2017 Daytona 500 (talk · history · tag) and Kurt Busch (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Kurt Busch wins the 2017 Daytona 500 in the Monster Energy NASCAR Cup Series. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In motorsport, Kurt Busch wins the Daytona 500.
News source(s): MRN USA Today
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: The biggest and most prestigious event in the Monster Energy NASCAR Cup Series. Dough4872 01:39, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • Only to comment (this is not a !vote) - we have posted Daytona in 2013, 2015, and 2016, and did not post in other years since ~2011 (though it was nominated). --MASEM (t) 15:13, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] RD: Bill Paxton

[edit]
Article: Bill Paxton (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News, People
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 JuneGloom07 Talk 16:03, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Ongoing: Operation Radd-ul-Fasaad

[edit]
No consensus. Stephen 10:36, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Operation Radd-ul-Fasaad (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
News source(s): Express Tribune, Dawn
Credits:
 mfarazbaig 17:15, 26 February 2017 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

February 25

[edit]
February 25, 2017 (2017-02-25) (Saturday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

[Posted] RD: Elli Norkett

[edit]
Article: Elli Norkett (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News, The Independent
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Young Welsh women's international rugby union player, killed yesterday in a car crash in South Wales. Article created today as a result of her death; I'd previously created articles for several of her teammates, but had been leaving those with only a handful of caps till a later date when there might have been more sourcing available. Sadly her death means that there is no sufficient sourcing. Miyagawa (talk) 21:31, 26 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] RD: Neil Fingleton

[edit]
Article: Neil Fingleton (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [5], [6]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Rhodesisland (talk) 01:42, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

February 24

[edit]
February 24, 2017 (2017-02-24) (Friday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy
  • Retail chain JC Penney announces plans to close between 130 and 140 stores, as well as 2 distribution centers, amid sagging store sales. (CNBC)

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

[Closed] Cloudbleed

[edit]
No consensus. Stephen

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Cloudbleed (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Cloud-computing service Cloudflare reports a buffer overflow software bug has leaked private information that may be cached on search engines. (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes, BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Right now, the amount of potential damage is unknown, as it requires actually having the sites that operate cloudflare spend time and effort to see what got cached. It does not seem to have too many security experts freaked out, but they are issuing warnings for password changes, among other steps. This could be nothing, it could be something, and while WP should not be worried about PSAs or the like, treating this as ITN makes s a lot of sense. MASEM (t) 01:26, 25 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support; less widespread than Heartbleed (i.e., as provider of CDN/DNS services only), which was also posted to ITN. Mélencron (talk) 01:29, 25 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per the nomination. This is nothing. Until it stop being nothing and then the story can be updated accordingly. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:01, 25 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose seems extremely minor. I saw barely any coverage outside of one-off items. Banedon (talk) 01:06, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment – This is a fairly major incident, in that it affects a large variation of services (among which OKCupid, an online dating website that should have a large amount of personal data, and Patreon, which is effectively a banking app). It's still unclear how impactful the actual leak may have been, though. More importantly, the Wikipedia article still seems of fairly low quality, creating more questions than answers. I can imagine the article being expanded in the next two days to the point where it gives an appropriate amount of information on the issue, but until then I would agree with the opposition. ~Mable (chat) 15:03, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[Posted] Al-Bab captured by Free Syrian Army

[edit]
Articles: Al-Bab (talk · history · tag) and Battle of al-Bab (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Battle of al-Bab is over, Turkish backed FSA captures the city from ISIL. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Turkish-backed Free Syrian Army captures Al-Bab from ISIL.
News source(s): [7]
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Al Bab is an important city in Northern Syria. It was recently captured by Turkish backed Free Syrian Army. Now, ISIL has lost a major stronghold in Syria. Kavas (talk) 06:03, 24 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Leila de Lima arrested

[edit]
No consensus. Stephen 10:31, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Leila de Lima (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Philippine government critic Leila de Lima is arrested on drug trafficking charges (Post)
News source(s): [8]
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Leila de Lima is the most prominent government critic of Duterte's drug war. On the one hand, this is "just" an arrest - not a conviction. On the other, this is a powerful sign coming from the government that dissent re the drug war is not tolerated, and if she proceeds to mysteriously disappear, there would never be a more natural time to post this. As with most of my nominations I'm floating the idea to see if ITN prefers to wait for a more blurb-worthy event happening soon, or posting now and then amending the blurb as the inevitable nation-wide drama unfolds (or neither; the article is heavily tagged as of time of nomination). Banedon (talk) 06:03, 24 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

February 23

[edit]
February 23, 2017 (2017-02-23) (Thursday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

[Posted] RD: Alan Colmes

[edit]
Article: Alan Colmes (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): "Fox News Channel's Alan Colmes Dies at Age 66". 23 Feb 2017. Retrieved 23 Feb 2017.
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Brianga (talk) 14:37, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] Eating 800 grams of fruits and vegetables a day keeps the undertaker away

[edit]
no consensus to post --Jayron32 15:21, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Articles: Vegetable (talk · history · tag) and Fruit (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Eating 800 grams of fruits and vegetables a day keeps the undertaker away (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Both articles need updating
 Count Iblis (talk) 06:39, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Lugnuts: Yeah I raided your fruitbowl :p Rest In Peaches! ;) O Fortuna!...Imperatrix mundi. 11:39, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Important news in the medical field, backed up by BBC article. Gfcvoice (talk) 11:25, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not sure whether this was seriously meant but health recommendations are generally only news in the country they are made, or possibly closely related countries. I don't know how much attention this is getting in the UK but we don't want a story every time a country repeats known advice or puts a new spin on it. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:11, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Okay, I'll humor this. This is covered widely and is notable, and we don't get much of a chance to post health news on Wikipedia. WaltCip (talk) 12:47, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We do not use popular press to support medical claims. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 13:24, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - I'm happy to support especially important stories even if boring and especially entertaining stories even if trivial. This story is neither newsworthy nor particularly engaging. I'm not well-versed in the medical literature, and I recognize that the findings of this study may have some sort of significance that I'm not fully able to appreciate, but even if that's the case then it's not of broad enough interest to post IMO. Telling people that "if you eat healthy, you're more likely to be healthy" is likely to elicit this sort of response from most of our readers. – Juliancolton | Talk 14:26, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose It may be "news" but it is clearly not the type of news that ITN handles. If there was a case where, say, some newly chemical in an apple was found through recent published studies to be of great medical benefit, that might be something, but this is just yet a variation on how important fruits and vegatables are to a proper diet which has been known for decades. --MASEM (t) 15:14, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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February 22

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February 22, 2017 (2017-02-22) (Wednesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

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Sports

[Closed] Operation Radd-ul-Fasaad

[edit]
No consensus. Stephen 10:27, 1 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Operation Radd-ul-Fasaad (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ After a series of attacks by the terrorist group Jamaat-ul-Ahrar, the Pakistani Army launches Operation Radd-ul-Fasaad (Post)
News source(s): See article, e.g. [9]
Credits:

Article updated
 Banedon (talk) 03:05, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose article too weak, looks like this should really be "ongoing" if its truly notable in any case. The Rambling Man (talk) 05:35, 27 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • Actually, I suggested that ongoing would be inappropriate because of the broad and vague goals of this operation that doesn't have a clear end or timeline to the end. Announcing the start of this operation as a regular ITNC would have seemed more appropriate to me. --MASEM (t) 14:58, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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[Posted] RD: Ion Croitoru

[edit]
Article: Ion Croitoru (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [10] [11]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Professional wrestler for multiple organizations, including WWF, and notorious for multiple arrests for serious crimes GaryColemanFan (talk) 01:35, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Posted] Earth-sized planets found orbiting nearby star

[edit]
Article: TRAPPIST-1 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Astronomers announce the discovery of seven Earth-sized planets near TRAPPIST-1 that may harbor alien life. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Astronomers announce that the star TRAPPIST-1 hosts seven exoplanets, some orbiting in its habitable zone
News source(s): NYT Time Atlantic Quartz Guardian, more
Credits:

 Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 18:28, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Pulled] Pull U.S. immigration suspension from Ongoing

[edit]
Article: Executive Order 13769 (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)

 Smurrayinchester 08:27, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

The order is suspended, has been for two weeks, and courts refused to lift the suspension. The government is drafting a new order, but that hasn't arrived yet. There are no developments and this story is now stale. Smurrayinchester 08:27, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for putting up the template - I didn't realize there was a "remove" option. Smurrayinchester 08:41, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[Closed] RD: Kenneth Arrow

[edit]
Older than oldest RD on main page. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:06, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Article: Kenneth Arrow (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Unfortunately I can't find any news sources yet covering this, but news of his passing is percolating among economists. Mélencron (talk) 01:31, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Please name, I'll try to fix. Ken Arrow was one of the most influential social scientists of the 20th century. It would be a shame if he's not on RD. --bender235 (talk) 15:35, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Take the "Endogenous-growth theory" section for example. Not one ref. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:17, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Added some. --bender235 (talk) 02:17, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's often a problem that when people say 'for example' only that specific case gets fixed. Have a look at the sentences and paragraphs throughout the article that make claims and yet lack a citation. That's what needs fixing. Stephen 02:39, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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February 21

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February 21, 2017 (2017-02-21) (Tuesday)
Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture
  • British journalist Milo Yiannopoulos resigns from his post as technology editor at Breitbart news, after controversy around his statements regarding underage sex. (BBC)

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[Posted] RD: Jeanne Martin Cissé
[edit]




Article: Jeanne Martin Cissé (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Freland, François-Xavier (February 22, 2017). "La Guinée endeuillée par la disparition de Jeanne Martin Cissé, figure de l'indépendance et des droits des femmes". Jeune Afrique. Retrieved February 22, 2017.; "Guinée : décès de Jeanne Martin Cissé (Présidence de la République)". Guinée Matin. February 21, 2017. ; "Côte d'Ivoire-International/ Décès de Jeanne Martin Cissé, figure de l'autonomie et des droits des femmes". Agence Ivoirienne de Presse. February 22, 2017. Retrieved February 22, 2017.
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Guinean women's rights advocate, minister, diplomat. Zigzig20s (talk) 18:32, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



Soyuz-U retired
[edit]




Articles: Soyuz-U (talk · history · tag) and Progress MS-05 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Soyuz-U, longest serving orbital rocket, was launched to its last mission.  (Post)
News source(s): (NASA), (TASS), (RT), (Christian Science Monitor)
Credits: 




One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Longest serving orbital rocket with 43 years in service, 786 missions and 97.2% success rate. Jenda H. (talk) 16:16, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



  • Taken from the USS Intrepid (CV-11) - "In her second career, she served mainly in the Atlantic, but also participated in the Vietnam War" - I think if a ship can serve then a spacecraft can as well. Besides, anthropomorphism is common in vehicles, which is why a ship or shuttle is referred to as 'she'. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 12:51, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



[Closed] RD: Desmond Connell
[edit]






Older than oldest listed RD. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:36, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






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Article: Desmond Connell (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC, The Irish Times
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 —MBlaze Lightning T 05:20, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


It is much improved, and the only reference problem is ref 16 (dead link, "The lies...") which is used in the most contentious part of the article.  On the condition that this is resolved, support.128.214.163.237 (talk) 13:25, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Recovered from archive.org.  The Rambling Man (talk) 13:33, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Comment There is a single CN tagged sentence which is repeated verbatim on many other websites, but not on any RS that I can find and sounds suspiciously like OR.  There are sources for Connell and Benedict's common council meetings, so adding one of those and removing the "close to" phrasing might suffice.  The chronology in the last section is confused and some rather weighty stuff is unreferenced.  I don't think these problems are insurmountable, but I also don't think the current state is suitable or that contentious content could be simply removed for the sake of posting to RD.128.214.163.208 (talk) 08:54, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Weak oppose the article is certainly important enough that it should be featured, but I'm still seeing a number of grammatical errors, and also some weasel words and issues with sourcing. "failure to adequately address" is not something we should be saying in Wikipedia's voice. Vanamonde (talk) 07:04, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support reiterated.  I fixed a new redlink, and every assertion appears to have a suitable reference.  The language mentioned above comes directly from the legalese in this case, and given the weightiness of the matter I think its best to use that language instead of trying to come up with something else.128.214.53.104 (talk) 09:07, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


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[Posted] RD: Steve Hewlett (journalist)
[edit]




Article: Steve Hewlett (journalist) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, BBC
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 —MBlaze Lightning T 08:14, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



2017 Charsadda suicide bombing
[edit]




Article: 2017 Charsadda suicide bombing (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ An attack at a sessions court in Charsadda, Pakistan, kills 7 people and injures at least 20 others.  (Post)
News source(s): Dawn, Express Tribune
Credits: 



Nominator's comments: The attack by 3 suicide bombers was averted by LEA personnel from turning into a major catastrophe. mfarazbaig 19:00, 22 February 2017 (UTC)



February 20
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February 20, 2017 (2017-02-20) (Monday)
        

        
    

    

                
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[Posted] RD: Vitaly Churkin
[edit]




Article: Vitaly Churkin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): PTV
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Sitting UN ambassador on a high-profile (ermanent USCI) posting to die in office is pretty notable. Perhaps even blurb? Lihaas (talk) 18:10, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



Third, and it is odd. I beeive it was Greece or something.Lihaas (talk) 10:42, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Assassination of Andrei Karlov & Kyriakos Amiridis. 45.116.232.49 (talk) 03:06, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



The article has since been loaded up with material that puts an odd amount of weight on Churkin's interactions with US Rep Power. This seems myopic and UNDUE, and the phrasing is also confusing.  It seems to be referring to content not actually in the article, and it has been CN tagged to boot.128.214.163.228 (talk) 14:16, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed undue Syrian stuff by now. Brandmeistertalk   14:53, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



[Posted] Famine in South Sudan
[edit]




Article: 2017 South Sudan famine (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The United Nations declare famine in South Sudan.  (Post)
Credits: 



 Tone 16:31, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The UN has officially declared a 2017 South Sudan famine.  This is the first official famine (rather than a warning of potential famine) in six years - not Yemen, Boko Haram, nor Somalia actually were declared famines.  It emerged from a standardized process, the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification as part of its normal updating, so this is as objective and apolitical an assessment as can be had.  I understand that Wikipedia has a problem with the timing of slow events but if there is any one moment where they reach genuine newsworthiness then this is that moment.  And how can the deaths of thousands of people not be newsworthy? Wnt (talk) 15:57, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



  • I added the nomination template. Support when the article gets some more work (I see editing is ongoing). --Tone 16:31, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Comment I think the articles needs expanding more on the background. I can't believe this was just suddenly the case, and while the famine 6 years ago is mentioned, I think there needs to be more discussion of the order of the events that get from there to now. But I do think this is an ITN story once that is in place. --MASEM (t) 19:28, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Thanks!  I had a prior commitment, but I can get back to this soon.  I know there's a lot more to add to the article. Wnt (talk) 23:15, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I see expansion happening enough to get the basics down, provide an article backbone for any new editors, but room to grow. Support. --MASEM (t) 01:34, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



[Closed] Ongoing: Kasaï-Central clashes (2016–present)
[edit]






No consensus to post to ongoing, not in the news and no significant activity. Stephen 23:12, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






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Article: Kasaï-Central clashes (2016–present) (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): [1][2][3]
Credits: 



Nominator's comments: Reactions from the UN (MONUSCO) and the Pope. Zigzig20s (talk) 09:32, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


That's not true. I've added a lot. And the event is still unfolding (ongoing)...Zigzig20s (talk) 09:43, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The last event noted when i reviewed the article was 14 February.  That's six days.  Two flare-ups in six months is not really an "ongoing" issue. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:47, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The video story I've just added was published on 18 February. Also to be honest it's happening in the middle of nowhere, which probably explains the lack of instant breaking news by the hour.Zigzig20s (talk) 10:11, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well unless it's regularly updated it's no use at Ongoing. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:30, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Oppose for ongoing  The article is very short, and there's very little regularly updated information.  As noted by TRM, the last significant event happened almost a week ago, the last event of ANY kind is a reaction statement from February 16.  If the article could be greatly expanded, and if it could be shown that events were happening rapidly by daily updates to the article, I'd change to support.  --Jayron32 11:40, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose as not really being "in the news".  This is the first I'd heard of this, and the sourcing on the article itself is pretty narrow: a few Reuters sources, but then the Vatican, niche African-oriented press and RFI.  RS's sure, but this isn't the broad sampling of sources I would expect from a highly-notable event of world-wide import.128.214.163.237 (talk) 14:14, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


I don't think we should dismiss the African or francophone press. There should be no supremacy of US media at ITN.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:56, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thats 100% true.  So use the continuous reports in the Francophone press to update the article daily with ongoing information, and when the article is sufficiently in depth AND we can see that it is being updated regularly, we'll all vote support.  --Jayron32 02:26, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've added reactions from the MAEDI and the USDS.Zigzig20s (talk) 03:36, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I am not at all dismissing non-US press, and that's a very creative reading of my objection.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.214.163.249 (talk) 09:14, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


It's still not any events.  When you have continuous coverage of the conflict itself, and not just random reactions to it, you may have something.  So far, nothing in the actual conflict since February 14th has been added to the article.  That's not really a current event, ongoing or otherwise.  --Jayron32 11:32, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



The United States Department of State, the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs and International Development, and the Pope condemn the violence and use of child soldiers in the Kasaï-Central clashes?Zigzig20s (talk) 08:13, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Not newsworthy.  These organisations and individuals condemn stuff all the time.  The Rambling Man (talk) 08:18, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well, reliable third-party sources think it is newsworthy.Zigzig20s (talk) 08:21, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, of course, they have to print something.  I clearly meant not newsworthy in regard to this nomination.  The Rambling Man (talk) 08:27, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you think this is not newsworthy? I'm just curious. The US media care more about the Milo gossip; very sad.Zigzig20s (talk) 08:30, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I'm not seeing it in any news outlets today, yesterday etc that I read regularly, the major events are spread well apart and nothing actually seems to be "ongoing", the use of child soldiers is not exclusive to this conflict, the condemnations are "by numbers" (take a look at any of the suicide bombing articles, condemnations aplenty).  It's not ITN-worthy.  The Rambling Man (talk) 09:11, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The articles in Voice of America, the Catholic Herald, Le Monde and La Croix were all published yesterday.Zigzig20s (talk) 09:17, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes?  I've made my position clear, leave it now, focus on others.  The Rambling Man (talk) 09:23, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



Since you asked me to "focus on others" earlier, could you please do the same thing? We know--you don't like this nomination--we get it--please follow your own advice. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:31, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No, this was a new update, so I'm just confirming that it's not of any note.  It's not about "liking" a nomination, it's about due and careful consideration as to whether it rises to the notability level of the main page of Wikipedia.  And an office being "ransacked" does not.   The Rambling Man (talk) 19:33, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


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[Closed] Russia recognizes passports from Ukrainian separatists
[edit]






No consensus to post, consensus in favour of highlighting an article with a suitable update.  The Rambling Man (talk) 19:25, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.









Article: No article specified
Blurb: ​ Russia recognizes passports from Ukrainian separatists  (Post)
News source(s): [12] [13]
Credits: 



Nominator's comments: This is the same action that Russia used as justification for intervening in South Ossetia and Abkhazia. I think Russian military intervention in Ukraine (2014–present) is the most suitable article for this, but 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine and War in Donbass are also plausible. As of time of writing none of the articles are updated. If anyone has other suggestions for other target articles / blurb feel free to suggest. Banedon (talk) 07:12, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.




[Closed] Daniel Craig now second longest serving James Bond
[edit]






WP:SNOW. --Jayron32 19:19, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






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Article: Daniel Craig (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Daniel Craig is now the second longest serving James Bond  (Post)
News source(s): [14] [15] [16]
Credits: 



Nominator's comments: I thought that this might be worthy of a news blurb as the James Bond franchise is fairly notable as is Daniel Craig and several news agencies/websites (including CTV Television Network) have covered this development. TheSandDoctor (talk) 18:52, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


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February 19
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  • Kraft Heinz drops its bid to buy Unilever for US$143 billion. Unilever rejected the idea last Friday but Kraft Heinz still expressed interest in finding an agreement. (BBC)





                
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February 18
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[Posted] RD: Dan Vickerman
[edit]




Article: Daniel Vickerman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Telegraph,  The Guardian
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 —MBlaze Lightning T 07:21, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



[Needs attention] RD: Clyde Stubblefield
[edit]




Article: Clyde Stubblefield (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rolling Stone .com
Credits: 




Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Drummer for James Brown, article well referenced with the exception of the discography. Suggest forking that off to a separate article if that is an issue that prevents listing. Jusdafax  23:22, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



It is listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums/Sources. Brianga (talk) 06:03, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I sourced the discography section (lead sentence at top of the section). Allmusic and Discogs are reliable for basic credits. Bammesk (talk) 02:36, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Comment – If we're supposed to be judging this on article quality, here's a few things:

    • The lead section can be called an indiscriminate collection of information far more than it can be called a capsule of a biography.  Based on my experiences working in public radio and dealing with that audience face-to-face, it's entirely possible that many folks know of Stubblefield from his appearances on Whad'Ya Know? and aren't very familiar with James Brown, and would look at that lead section and consider it to be a bunch of trivia.  It's incongruous and smells of haphazardly slapping content together to have a lead which reads more like a James Brown WP:COATRACK than about anything having to do with Stubblefield, all the while the infobox photo is from a Whad'Ya Know? program but the article contains only one mention of the program and his association with it about halfway down.
      • 

    • Speaking of which, such mention is minimal to the point of being irrelevant.  Not mentioned in the article, but mentioned in the program's article is the fact that Stubblefield only appeared on the program when they did "road shows" and didn't appear on the programs recorded in Madison, which is something I never quite understood considering that he lived in Madison.
      • 

    • The career section starts with mentioning his birth and childhood, which is typically found in a separate section from one discussing a subject's career.  I know that's a common tactic on the part of editors who work on biographies in various fields.  Believing that we don't need to mention anything about a musician's life if it has to do with their life but has nothing to do with music makes us appear to be hopelessly one-dimensional.  I didn't read the comment, but noticed that someone used the term "one-trick pony" in addressing a recent concern of mine.  They ought to take a good look at content like this before casting such aspersions. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  00:56, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


About the quality: The first sentence in each paragraph of the lead is on point. News sources are calling him James Brown's Funky Drummer and a highly sampled uncredited musician [17]. About his role in the radio program: I can't find much on it, but if you have sources then feel free to add it. The article is not GA quality, but it is well sourced, and it is a decent reflection of the sources. (disclosure: I updated the article a couple of years ago and have kept an eye on it since) Bammesk (talk) 02:44, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • I updated the article and rewrote the lead. Most of the discography and the instructional video section are sourced in the body of the article anyway, but the lead sentence in the discography section refs it entirely. I think the article is in good shape. Bammesk (talk) 01:32, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Actually this version of the article is scored GA by ores [18]. Bammesk (talk) 17:11, 25 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Support - As nominator. I second Bammesk's assement. Since article quality is supposed to be the sole factor of judgement, I will add a [Needs attention] to the top. Jusdafax  05:16, 24 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


RD: Norma McCorvey
[edit]




Article: Norma McCorvey (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Plaintiff of landmark Roe v. Wade case. EternalNomad (talk) 18:16, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Was just coming here to nominate, but needs some more sourcing at this time. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:17, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose Needs some work with an emphasis on referencing. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:51, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support - In my judgment, which is based on a very cursory review of the article, it really only needs a couple more sources here and there, as well as one to replace this opinion piece. They won't take long to be added. Kurtis (talk) 14:16, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

    Alright, so I've moved some sources around and named a couple pre-existing ones that referenced the uncited claims; I've also removed the opinion piece reference, which leaves a total of three citations where there were once four.[19] Does the article look any better? Are these changes sufficient for an RD posting? Kurtis (talk) 14:56, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support, references could use some work, but I think it's good enough for ITN. --AmaryllisGardener talk 17:09, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Some very contentious claims are unreferenced. Stephen 00:55, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

    I've been working for some time at finding reliable sources to rectify this problem, but the job is actually tougher than I had anticipated. For instance, the specific institutions to which she had allegedly been sent are extremely difficult to locate in much of the publicly available documentation regarding her life, and some of it may have be taken from Wikipedia in the first place. I'm considering changing my support to an oppose if providing adequate referencing proves to be impossible in the short-term. Kurtis (talk) 01:33, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Omar Abdel-Rahman
[edit]




Article: Omar Abdel-Rahman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Islamic militant Omar Abdel-Rahman, former leader of al-Jama'a al-Islamiyya who was convicted in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, dies in prison aged 78. 
Alternative blurb II: ​ Islamic militant Omar Abdel-Rahman, former leader of al-Jama'a al-Islamiyya who was convicted in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, dies in a United States prison aged 78. 
News source(s): BBC
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Article is B-quality, a few citation needed tabs but nothing that can't be fixed.  His group al-Jama'a al-Islamiyya was responsible for the deaths of nearly 1,000 people, and he also gave the fatwa supporting the assassination of President Anwar Sadat.  I think his notoriety and the fact that he died in a US prison may be blurb-worthy. EternalNomad (talk) 18:03, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • The mujaheddin and legacy sections are both completely unsourced, which would obviously be a prerequisite to posting. As for thoughts on a blurb, I think it's a borderline case – before about 1995 he was probably higher profile than Bin Laden, so certainly understand why this was chosen as a topic of discussion. On the other hand, the circumstances of death were unremarkable and for obvious reasons he has been somewhat overshadowed within his... field... over the past 15 years or so. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 18:21, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose blurb RD is fine once the sourcing issues that StillWaiting identified. It would be one thing if he was killed while there was a manhunt for him, but he was captured, tried, and sentenced, effectively closing the book on the attack; his death while in prison is unremarkable. --MASEM (t) 20:58, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose blurb, not called for in this case. A few more citations are needed before RD. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:40, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose blurb, support for RD only after citiation fixed - Notable Sherenk1 (talk) 10:17, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support RD; his death is unremarkable and we're not talking about someone whose baseline significance matches that of, say, Ayman al-Zawahiri or Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. A blurb would be overdoing it. But an RD mention is more than warranted, once the legacy and mujaheddin sections have adequate referencing. Kurtis (talk) 15:00, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose The article fails to explain why he was not given the death penalty. Perhaps if we can understand that, an RD would make sense. Right now it looks elliptic.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:08, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose blurb per StillWaiting; old convicted terrorist dying in prison doesn't warrant a blurb; not tops in 'field' either. 331dot (talk) 16:12, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose blurb and I don't know how possible it will be to cite the stuff in the aforementioned sections. Unless a genuine past-contemporary source is found, RS<->WP reinforcement probably means that those sections are from tweets or some armchair jihadist's synth. The Stewart conviction should have a real source, at least in the court's documentation.  Is there a possibility to get this guy's picture up when this goes to RD? Ol' Rockabilly Santa Claus looking sheik.128.214.163.237 (talk) 14:08, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


February 17
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  • British-Dutch consumer goods company Unilever rejects a US$143 billion takeover from Kraft Heinz, saying the deal had no financial or strategic merit. Nevertheless, Kraft is still interested in finding agreement; it has until March 17 to make a final bid under UK takeover rules. (Reuters)





                
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[Posted] RD: Robert H. Michel
[edit]




Article: Robert H. Michel (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Washington Post
Credits: 




Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Article has been well sourced as Michel served as House Minority Leader (setting record for serving the longest period) --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:57, 17 February 2017 (UTC) --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:57, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Looks well-referenced and balanced.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:12, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Comment – The article title appears to be yet another example of someone else's naming conventions taking precedence over our own.  I've always heard him commonly described as "Robert Michel" or usually "Bob Michel", not "Robert H. Michel". RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  06:50, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

    Was in a hurry to finish up and get out the door and wasn't quite finished.  Breaking the article into so many sections that are mostly devoid of detail makes the disparity between our coverage of certain portions of his life and coverage of certain other portions of his life all the more obvious, suggesting that we're defining "article quality" in strictly superficial terms.  One of the passages from his early life caught my attention: "From 1949 to 1956, he worked as an administrative assistant to U.S. Representative Harold Velde".  It would appear to me that we call them "congressional aides" if they worked for a member of Congress at certain points in history, but by other job titles if they served at certain other points in history.  How does that make sense?  If I made my living by panhandling on the street, but described it to a newspaper reporter in more fanciful terms and they published my description at face value, does that mean that we're obligated to follow suit if it came down to that? RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  01:23, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Posted Stephen 00:52, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


RD: Nicole Bass
[edit]




Article: Nicole Bass (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Daily Mail, USA Today
Credits: 




Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 Sterngleek (talk) 18:20, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



February 16
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February 16, 2017 (2017-02-16) (Thursday)
        

        
    

    

                
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RD: Dick Bruna
[edit]




Article: Dick Bruna (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: He created Miffy.  Say no more. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:40, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



[Withdrawn] Zealandia proposed as New (8th) Continent
[edit]






Withdrawn per WP:SNOW.Tlhslobus (talk) 16:42, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.









Article: Zealandia (continent) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Geological Society of America publishes a report stating that Zealandia is a geological continent, rather than a microcontinent or continental fragment.  (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Geological Society of America publishes a paper proposing that Zealandia is a geological continent, rather than a microcontinent or continental fragment. 
Alternative blurb II: ​ Scientists propose that Zealandia is a geological continent, rather than a microcontinent or continental fragment. 
News source(s): CNN, Guardian, Telegraph
Credits: 




Article updated
Nominator's comments: A new 8th continent seems like less-than-once-a-century news (though it's mostly submerged, except for New Zealand and New Caledonia). At first glance, the article seems in decent enough shape, though I'll let others decide that. I assume this nom's problem will be that it's still only one paper, albeit a potentially momentous one. I'll let others argue whether that's notable enough for ITN, but I think the question deserves to be at least asked, so this nom asks it. In reply to 'It's just a proposal', I agree, but the serious proposal that there is a newly discovered continent here on Earth is the biggest and most surprising news that I've heard in a very long time (far more surprising to me than Brexit or Trump's election), and something I would have called 'impossible' yesterday, whereas by the time it gets 'accepted' or 'rejected' by the rest of science, if it ever does, it will be almost boring almost non-news, at least to me. Incidentally the blurb is the wording currently in the article. The altblurb with 'paper proposing' is my 'weaker' wording, just in case the article's wording is 'too strong' (I don't know whether it is or not). Tlhslobus (talk) 14:47, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


The article is Zealandia (continent).  Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:05, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


It's been known about for years by experts. Like probably 90 to 99% of non-experts, it's complete news to me, and I want to hear more about it, because it's a proposed new continent that's in the News headlines. And I expect the same is true of many other readers. And facilitating such readers is what ITN is supposed to be about.Tlhslobus (talk) 15:25, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Wait per above. If affirmed/assigned that way, absolutely an ITN story. --MASEM (t) 15:04, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose. Zealandia is not new, and nor is the idea that it is a continent. This is just improved evidence and a proposal to adopt the name. There is no official body which rules on the use of the term 'continent'. Maybe other scientists will start using that term, maybe they won't. In the former case it will be a gradual process due to continued accumulation of data, not this one paper, in the latter case there's no story. Modest Genius talk 15:21, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



If so, we can always take GSA out of the blurb. I've added an altblurb2 to that effect. Tlhslobus (talk) 16:30, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



8th is from newspaper (Telegraph, I think) and not in blurb, partly for that reason.Tlhslobus (talk) 16:36, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.




RD: Jannis Kounellis
[edit]




Article: Jannis Kounellis (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [20][21]
Credits: 




Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Recent death, article seems reasonably well sourced already but may need some expansion and care Fram (talk) 14:00, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment There's no update reflecting his death in the article, and the list of the exhibitions that he was a part of and where his works are now needs sourcing. --MASEM (t) 14:30, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

    • I've made a minor addition regarding his death (not much to be said about it, old man dies is sad but not unexpected news), and added a lot of sourced exhibitions and sources to already mentioned ones. Many remain unsourced though, and I currently don't have the time to source these one by one. Hopefully someone else will go for it, or the unsourced ones can be removed for now (though at least a few of the Arte Povera ones need to be included and sourced). Fram (talk) 15:21, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose No awards section, no major coverage, despite "Gradually, Kounellis introduced new materials, such as propane torches, smoke, coal, meat, ground coffee, lead, and found wooden objects into his installations" no evidence of importance or influence on an ITN level.  Again, being in a local or specialist newspaper doesn't mean your passing is "in the news".  μηδείς (talk) 18:01, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]




  • Excise contentious sections and post, or close' To my eye, the sourcing does not seem to be so bad as to prevent posting.  The unsourced sections mentioned above deal with the content of Kounellis' production, which would be made obvious by a simple look at a picture.  However, the article is not significantly improved by these unsourced bits, so I wouldn't be against just excising them for the sake of getting the article up. If we're going to let a few phrases describing an exhibit prevent an RD from gracing the front page for a few days, perhaps its better to just get rid of them. I know RD no longer takes notability into account, but this person really does seem to be a large figure in his field.128.214.163.237 (talk) 14:38, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Meh?  I mean really, meh?  TRM gives sources, which is great, and mad props for that.  But meh.  And basketball coach?  WTF!?!!?  (Personal attack removed) μηδείς (talk) 20:03, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

    And I'm sure everyone takes everything you say seriously, especially the unfounded personal attacks.  Do carry on.   No, hold on, I think you're trying to assert that "Americans" is an actual "race" innit?!  Nope.  If you wish to attempt to attack me personally, do try harder.  As your "race" would say, "you don't KNOW ME".  I'm actual a Labradoodle.  Labragoogle it.  The Rambling Man (talk) 20:10, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


[Closed] Organic compounds on Ceres
[edit]






No consensus. Stephen 22:53, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.









Article: Ceres (dwarf planet) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Scientists report the detection of aliphatic organic compounds on dwarf planet Ceres.  (Post)
News source(s): Science, LA Times
Credits: 



 bender235 (talk) 23:04, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]




  • Support, the significant element here is that the organic compounds were formed on Ceres itself, it points to the interesting possiblity that life may have originated on proto-planets like Ceres. Count Iblis (talk) 20:16, 20 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]




  • How did the planets form?  It all started with small objects growing larger via accretion that then collided to form larger and larger objects. At the later stages of this processes there were hundreds of proto-planets that collided with each other forming the planets as we know them today. It has been argued that Earth got its water as a result of an influx of icy proto-planets from the outer solar system that ended up becoming part of the Earth's interior. It is now know that the Earth's interior does indeed contain vastly more water that in all the Earth's oceans. This water from the interior made its way to the Earth's surface via outgassing. Count Iblis (talk) 19:27, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]




  • The interior of even asteroids is known to have been molten not long after they formed due to the decay of Iron-60. So, When Ceres formed you would have had not only the heat from it's formation but also heat from radioactive decay from Iron-60 decay. Today, it's frozen, although I'm not sure about the interior. Count Iblis (talk) 22:28, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Oppose, the passage of a few days shows that this story didn't have legs. Organic compounds abound in the solar system, and nobody here or in the scientific community has made a case for why this finding is at all interesting. Abductive (reasoning) 02:22, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.




[Posted] Sehwan suicide bombing
[edit]




Article: 2017 Sehwan suicide bombing (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A suicide bombing at a shrine in Sehwan, Pakistan, kills at least 50 70 people and injures more than 100.  (Post)
News source(s): Dawn, huffingtonpost, BBC, Guardian, Reuters
Credits: 



 Saqib (talk) 16:29, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



 Sca (talk) 23:24, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



@Masem:: death toll increased to 88 and injuries to 350. Could the blurb be updated ?--Saqib (talk) 14:49, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


February 15
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February 15, 2017 (2017-02-15) (Wednesday)
        

        
    

    

                
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[Posted] RD: Stuart McLean
[edit]




Article: Stuart McLean (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Article seems to be in fair shape, but someone more knowledgeable than me should have a look. Nohomersryan (talk) 05:16, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



Where were your comments on this when George Michael was being discussed? And no -- they don't all have ISBNs or articles. In fact, none of Doris Lessing's have ISBNs on the main page, and only about a third of them have articles. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 10:31, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Other stuff exists, sure.  I can't police it all, much as I'd like to stop problematic articles getting rushed onto the main page.  Better for you to spend this time fixing the article rather than berating me for not catching all the problems on the main page.  And answer the exam question, which is rooted in core Wikipedia policy. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:43, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Just as an amusing note, I would not myself have suggested or supported Stuart McLean as an RD, and that despite knowing more about him than the name. (Nice guy btw. Nothing like me.) I only spoke up because you *did* originally speak up about the George Michael blurb, repeatedly (to strongly support the blurb, in fact, even to the point of suggesting any lack of support might be because George Michael was not American) -- so it is scarcely a matter of "police it all", but of specifically policing an article you actively supported for an ITN blurb. ("Policing" -- another interesting word for a once and would-be future administrator.) Interestingly, you never once mentioned lack of references in the discography in your multiple comments there. We can learn our own biases from our inconsistencies, or we can hide behind quoting policy. Your choice. - Tenebris 66.11.171.90 (talk) 04:12, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Just as an amusing rebuttal, as Masem points out, Michael's discog contained bluelinks and most, if not all, were covered in the prose with inline citations.  You need to try harder if you want to be actually amusing.  The Rambling Man (talk) 19:19, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


And of course, what really is amusing is that Michael's entire discog was forked out to this page which... oh... just happens to be a featured list with inline citations for every single thing he ever did as a musical artist.  Now please, try to think of something constructive to do around here as we've wasted enough time already on this baseless (and tasteless) tattle.  The Rambling Man (talk) 19:22, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


And for the avoidance of doubt, my first comment at Michael was "Support blurb unexpected death of a "pop icon", easily outweighs people like Paul Walker" which was after the blurb was posted.  Do you get that?  Subsequent posts reminded Wikipedia that we had summarily posted Paul Walker for a blurb despite him being a B-list American actor.  American users had set the bar so sufficiently low with that post, that it was super easy to promote Michael and Princess Leia and her mother to full blurbs.  The Rambling Man (talk) 23:08, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Lessing probably needs them regardless, but for Bowie and Michael, the fact that they made those albums or went on those tours are sourced in the lengthy prose section of the bio, and they are also all blue-links to notable articles. In this case, more than half the works are unlinked, and likely not notable, and there's no significant discussion of each work in the bio prose. So an ISBN or reference to affirm the book/album was made and they authored is necessary. --MASEM (t) 14:39, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



[Posted] PSLV-C37
[edit]




Article: PSLV-C37 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ With PSLV-C37, Indian Space Research Organisation successfully launches a record 104 satellites.  (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ India’s space agency launched a record 104 satellites in one go from the Satish Dhawan Space Centre at Sriharikota using a four stage PSLV-C37, nearly tripling the previous record. 
News source(s): Indian Express
Credits: 




Article updated
Nominator's comments: The highest record so far has been of 37 satellites by Russia in 2014 followed by USA's 29. I suppose the topic would be news-worthy in either of the cases of its success or failure. With success, this will be a word record of launching 104 satellites in a go which surpasses the previous record by a huge margin. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 11:15, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



LaLa Land has no implications whatsoever... Any film could win 5 awards and 5 awards is no record either. This is atleast better than the current lead blurb of a gossip magazine. Plus, this is an actual record. But yes, i agree that more expansion should happen. 117.222.8.10 (talk) 18:39, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






February 14
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February 14, 2017 (2017-02-14) (Tuesday)
        

        
    

    

                
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  • Cigna announces that it has terminated its merger with Anthem, a deal that was blocked by a U.S. federal judge last week. In addition, Cigna sues  Anthem for the $1.85 billion reverse termination fee,  and for more than $13 billion in additional damages.  Anthem says Cigna has no right to terminate the merger, a deal which in January was extended to April 30, 2017. (Bloomberg) (CNBC)
    • 

  • Aetna and Humana terminate their proposed merger that had been blocked last month by a U.S. federal judge. Aetna announces it will pay Humana  the $1 billion fee for calling off the agreement. (Forbes) (NPR)





                
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[Closed] Triangulene
[edit]






Clear consensus against posting. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:39, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.









Article: Non-Kekulé molecule (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Scientists successfully synthesize triangulene, the simplest Non-Kekulé polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbon, for the first time  (Post)
News source(s): [23] [24] [25]
Credits: 




Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: Ping @EdChem: for expert opinion on this. Banedon (talk) 03:03, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.




[Posted blurb] [Posted RD] Kim Jong-nam
[edit]




Article: Kim Jong-nam (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Assassins kill Kim Jong-nam, the son and former designated successor to North Korea's Kim Jong-il in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.  (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Kim Jong-un's half-brother Kim Jong-nam is killed in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. 
News source(s): Guardian BBC NYT
Credits: 




Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Exiled elder brother of North Korea's leader, Kim Jong-un. There are unconfirmed reports that he was assassinated by North Korean agents. Article is basic but seems okay. Nominating for RD only; even if the rumours are true I don't think there's enough in the way of implications for a blurb. Modest Genius talk 13:53, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]







  • I have tagged each section that needs work.  Especially problematic are direct quotes without citations (each direct quote must have a direct cite to where it is from) and statements like "It was verified later on..." which does not cite WHERE it was verified... --Jayron32 14:43, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]




  • Support RDblurb. Unless it's proven to be an assassination, I don't think this deserves a blurb since he never took power. From a quick glance, it looks like everything is sourced in the article except the date of Kim Jong-un's ascension, which is an uncontroversial fact and would be sourced in that article. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 16:43, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]




  • Posted with thanks to LukeSurl's work in adding references. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 16:59, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Post blurb - Assassinations are a big deal, especially when North Korea commits one outside of the country, at a public place, an airport nonetheless, on an exiled North Korean, who is a brother of the dictator Kim Jong Un II. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 18:26, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Wait for a blurb until this is more widely reported as an "assassination". Most sources I have seen indicate the situation is not entirely clear yet(although The Guardian link above claims the US and South Korean governments believe Kim to have been killed by DPRK agents). 331dot (talk) 18:32, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose blurb unless this is definitely ruled as an assassination targeting him. Yes, a duck test suggests it was, I don't question that, but they have not completed the investigation. (Was he purposely the target, and was the attack with the liquid meant to kill him or just harm him?) Let's not rush to call it an assassination and put it as a blurb until we have better confirmation. --MASEM (t) 18:33, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support blurb - reported as assassination by NYT [26], citing a South Korean news channel, and as murder by BBC [27]. -Zanhe (talk) 18:41, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Reluctantly oppose blurb more or less per Masem. On balance of probability I believe this was an assassination, however the people who would need to say this for it to be justifiable to post a blurb of some description – either the Malaysian police, or a relevant Government, to whom we could attribute the claim – are not doing so. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 22:42, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • The only reason I don't think this should be posted is because no major player has reacted (like sanctions or any declaration of support or criticism). Nergaal (talk) 22:48, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support blurb - Death section is now substantial enough to merit main page posting. Story is developing, most recent development is an arrest. --LukeSurl t c 10:02, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]





  • Mandela and Thatcher died of natural causes. The argument for posting a blurb comes from the violent circumstances of the death. A comparable case is the Murder of Jo Cox. Cox was a fairly junior politician, but the violent and sudden nature of her death meant that it was headline news and an ITN item. --LukeSurl t c 19:15, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Support blurb somewhat reluctantly. It's major news globally and it has been widely reported that Mr. Kim was being maintained by China as a potential replacement for the current N. Korean dictator should a change in leadership be required. At this point I don't think there is any reasonable doubt that this was an assassination and it is being called that by a huge number of reliable sources. -Ad Orientem (talk) 13:57, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Consider at least temporarily Pulling from RD? I don't know why, but the BBC 6 o'clock TV News this evening was strangely cautious, repeatedly referring to his 'possible body', as if they have some doubt as to whether it's actually him, in which case it just might yet turn out to be a case of Mark Twain's "Reports of my death are much exagerated". Tlhslobus (talk) 21:50, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


@Tlhslobus: - Both the Kuala Lumpur Police Department and the North Korean Embassy have confirmed that the assassinated was indeed Kim Jong-nam. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 14:22, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Comment: I've now also asked the same question at WP:ERRORS. Tlhslobus (talk) 21:56, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose blurb.  The BBC website tonight says: "North Korea has asked Malaysia for the body of a man believed to be leader Kim Jong-un's half-brother.  Kim Jong-nam is thought to have been poisoned as he waited to board a flight in the capital Kuala Lumpur on Monday. Local authorities are carrying out an autopsy to establish the exact cause of Mr Kim's death, but Pyongyang has reportedly objected... Malaysia has yet to formally confirm that the dead man, who was travelling under the name Kim Chol, is Kim Jong-nam."   (My emphasis).   So, we should wait before doing anything.  Even if it is confirmed to be him, his death, in whatever manner, is not sufficiently notable to be worthy of a blurb.    Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:58, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Thanks, Ghmyrtle. Does that mean that you support at least temporarily pulling him from RD? I note that item 2 of the criteria for inclusion at WP:ITNRD states:


2.Updated, including reliably sourced confirmation of their death.



I think it's OK to keep him as a death at present - it is reliably sourced.  But, in the circumstances, we should be cautious about giving it any more prominence.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:29, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

His death has been reported as an assassination in more RS sources than I can count. The only question seems to be coming from Pyongyang, which is not a reliable source for the current weather much less anything serious. This remains one of the top news stories globally (except in the United States where we remain convulsed in self obsession over our laughingstock of a president). That it has not been posted is simply ridiculous.  -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:33, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

More careful and cautious sources like the BBC are not saying they are certain it is him, are not saying it was murder, and are certainly not calling it an "assassination".   Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:45, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

How many sources beyond the BBC are towing Pyongyang's line? The only source for this manufactured doubt is the North Korean government. The BBC may regard Pyongyang as a reliable source, but I do not think we do. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:47, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Oppose blurb for the time being, at least unless changed to 'reported assassinated' :  Apart from the above-mentioned caution of the BBC, here from Google are just some of the sources saying 'reported assassinated' or 'suspected assassination'; admittedly most are a day old, but ABC is only 3 hours ago.


    • Kim Jong-un's Half Brother Is Reported Assassinated in Malaysia - New York Times · 1 day ago
      • 

    • Kim Jong Un's half-brother apparently assassinated in Malaysian airport - USA TODAY · 1 day ago
      • 

    • Kim Jong-nam death: Woman arrested over suspected assassination in Kuala Lumpur - ABC Online · 3 hours ago
      • 

    • Kim Jong Un's half brother is reported assassinated in Malaysia - The ... https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/...reported-assassinated.../story.html - 1 day ago -
      • 

    • Kim Jong Un's half-brother apparently assassinated in Malaysian airport - www.usatoday.com/story/news/...reported-assassinated.../97886974/ - 1 day ago -
      • 

    • Kim Jong Un's half brother is reported assassinated in Malaysia - The ... www.ocregister.com/articles/kim-743969-jong-north.html - 1 day ago -
      • 

    • Kim Jong Un's half brother is reported assassinated in Malaysia | The ... www.reformer.com/.../kim-jong-uns-half-brother-is-reported-assassinate... 1 day ago -
      • 

    • Kim Jong-un's Half Brother Is Reported Assassinated in Malaysia - www.msn.com/en-in/news/...reported-assassinated.../ar-AAmVAUr?... - 1 day ago


It is not 'rubbish' to suggest that the BBC, ABC, USA Today, the New York Times, the Boston Globe, etc, are NOT all just dupes or mouthpieces of North Korea. (And meanwhile we are still awaiting official Malaysian confirmation that he is in fact dead. Malaysia is NOT just a puppet of North Korea either.)


If it's changed to 'reported assassinated', then I'm at worst neutral, and tending towards weak support for a blurb, on the basis that there's no doubt that he has been reported assassinated, and this is 'all over the news'. But I prefer to leave it to others to argue over whether we should be posting such 'highly credible but still unconfirmed reports'. Tlhslobus (talk) 01:39, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]





[Closed] Pakistan bans Valentine's Day
[edit]






WP:SNOW.  --Jayron32 13:26, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






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Article: Valentine's Day (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Following a ruling by the High Court, Pakistan bans the celebration of Valentine's Day nationwide.  (Post)
News source(s): [28] [29]
Credits: 




Article updated
Nominator's comments: Kind of an oddball nomination, but just putting it out there. Compare precedent [30]. One difference is that Valentine's Day is not a religious holiday; another is that there were protests this time round (according to the photos in the news articles). Banedon (talk) 07:36, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


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February 13
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February 13, 2017 (2017-02-13) (Monday)
        

        
    

    

                
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[Posted] RD: Ricardo Arias Calderón
[edit]




Article: Ricardo Arias Calderón (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): La Estrella
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Ex-VP of Panama.  Article is GA quality. EternalNomad (talk) 17:18, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



[Closed] Michael T. Flynn resigns
[edit]






No consensus. ITN don't post resignation of governmental advisor. -- KTC (talk) 10:02, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






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Article: Michael T. Flynn (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Michael T. Flynn resigns his position as national security advisor to President of the United States Donald Trump after it was revealed that he misled other top U.S. government officials about his communications with Sergey Ivanovich Kislyak, the Russian ambassador to the United States.  (Post)
News source(s): [31] [32] [33] [34]
Credits: 




Article updated
Nominator's comments: Very big deal in that Flynn was an important official in Trump's administration, as one of the president's senior advisors; lots of media attention. The blurb may well be too long, in which case the second part ("after...") should probably be removed. Everymorning (talk) 04:39, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


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[Posted] 2017 Lahore suicide bombing
[edit]




Article: 2017 Lahore suicide bombing (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 13 people are killed and 85 injured during a suicide bombing at a protest rally in Lahore, Pakistan.  (Post)
News source(s): New York Times, Dawn
Credits: 




Article updated
Nominator's comments: First attack inside a major Pakistani city in a long while. Mar4d (talk) 18:06, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



[Closed] Oroville Dam
[edit]






No consensus, non-event.  Stephen 08:02, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






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Article: Oroville Dam (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Damages to the Oroville Dam in California force more than 180,000 people to evacuate.  (Post)
News source(s): KCRA, (Washington Post)
Nominator's comments: Quite a few people contributed to the updating of this article. PFHLai (talk) 12:33, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


As I understand it(and unless the situation has changed) the dam itself is not in danger, just the spillway- and once the lake water level drops below the spillway, the danger will be reduced.  I'm still willing to wait and see what happens. 331dot (talk) 20:04, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Right, it's the spillway that "broke" but it's a huuuuuge mess. Tens of thousands of people evacuated and the cost to repair is very large and is shedding light on California's infrastructure problem. I would use 2017_Oroville_Dam_crisis instead of Oroville Dam. Sir Joseph (talk) 20:12, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's okay, I'm sure the Mexicans will pay for it.  It's not really an actual story, more of an "almost story".  Perhaps DYK is the best venue. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:59, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Oppose as long as are not casualties. - EugεnS¡m¡on 21:31, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support - People, the dam doesn't have to collapse for it to be notable. Almost a quarter of a million people are being evacuated and for a dam collapse nonetheless. I'd say it's extremely newsworthy as it is a historic dam, a historic evacuation and a historic event. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 22:31, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

    Nothing to see here.  Lots of inconvenience, but nothing more. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:48, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Weak support - seeing just about enough international coverage to support this. Prefer different link regardless per Sir Joseph. Banedon (talk) 01:26, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support This news story has been covered enough that I think it should be posted. The comments about an evacuation being an "inconvenience" are hard to fathom. Getting stuck in traffic is an "inconvenience". Being evacuated is a big deal. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:19, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose Nothing major happened there, just evacuations. Don't think that only for this to post on the main page. Rambling Man has right. - 2A02:2F0B:B0D0:17C2:FD0E:360A:C664:861B (talk) 07:03, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose unless upcoming storms result in significant material damages. SpencerT♦C 09:58, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Wait. If the dam bursts, this could be a big deal. If it doesn't, this isn't. Modest Genius talk 12:58, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose - I agree with TRM's assessment that this is an "almost story." The evacuations have been a precautionary measure, not a direct response to imminent dam/spillway failure. As it stands, the only story here is the evacuation order, and in the realm of natural disaster preparedness, 180,000 affected people is not an especially large evacuation. There's no way we would post a blurb about evacuations for a hurricane until the storm actually struck land, and I don't think this is much different. – Juliancolton | Talk 14:39, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support - hopefully the dam will not collapse, but the evacuation of 180,000 people in itself is ITN-worthy. This has been widely reported all over the world. -Zanhe (talk) 18:44, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Comment. I reiterate that the dam itself is not in danger of collapse; the problem here is the spillways, which if they collapse, will only release part of the lake(certainly still very bad, but not as bad as the whole thing going) More rain is expected in the area in the coming days, so this may worsen, but not yet. 331dot (talk) 18:47, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

    • That is true. We shall see if the coming rain is enough to cause the crisis they're thinking may happen. The way I see it, even without the worst possible scenario, this is already worthy of posting because of the (1) 180,000+ evacuations which are incredibly disruptive to their personal lives and the local economy and (2) the light being shown on the crumbling infrastructure of the United States. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:19, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

      • But 'crumbling infrastructure of the US' is surely grounds for opposing posting, as it could be used by Trump supporters to criticize the Obama administration, and to support Trump's stated plans for more spending on infrastructure, and the first rule of ITN currently seems to be that we only post anti-Trump stories :) Tlhslobus (talk) 02:45, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose per TRM. By the standards of typical evacuations, both in the US and elsewhere, 180,000 is not unusual. The root cause is somewhat unusual, but in that case the root cause itself would be the story should this evacuation have proven to be lifesaving (as opposed to the appropriate precaution it currently seems to be). StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 22:47, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Update: Evacuation order has been rescinded; downgraded to "Evacuation Warning" status. [35] SpencerT♦C 00:07, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


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February 12
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February 12, 2017 (2017-02-12) (Sunday)
        

        
    

    

                
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[Closed] Turkmenistan presidential election
[edit]






Stale. Stephen 01:56, 17 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






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Article: Turkmenistani presidential election, 2017 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Incumbent Gurbanguly Berdimuhamedow is re-elected as president of Turkmenistan.  (Post)
Credits: 




The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Article needs a prose updae. Lihaas (talk) 06:16, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Indeed; the readers who read the article are fully capable of determining which elections are rigged or otherwise unfair. 331dot (talk) 21:33, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



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[Posted] RD: Ren Xinmin
[edit]




Article: Ren Xinmin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): China Daily
Credits: 




Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Centenarian aerospace engineer Zanhe (talk) 17:52, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



@LukeSurl: I've added a citation for the statement. -Zanhe (talk) 18:25, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thumbs up icon Looks ready to post now. --LukeSurl t c 18:37, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



RD: Al Jarreau
[edit]




Article: Al Jarreau (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): USA Today, Ebony Magazine, New York Times
Credits: 




Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Al Jarreau, singer who spanned jazz, pop and R&B worlds, seven-time Grammy winner, dies at 76 109.144.218.198 (talk) 19:29, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



Grammy Awards
[edit]




Article: 59th Annual Grammy Awards (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ 25 wins Album of the Year and "Hello" wins Record of the Year at the Grammy Awards.  (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Adele wins five Grammy Awards, including Album of the Year (25) and Record of the Year ("Hello"). 
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits: 




The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Show is nearing the end, the two usual awards we use for the ITNR are not yet announced but should be soon. That said, Adele may need a different highlight blurb if that happens. I do note that we did not post last year due to lack of prose, and the current article is suffering the same. MASEM (t) 02:03, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



[Posted] 70th British Academy Film Awards
[edit]




Article: 70th British Academy Film Awards (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ La La Land wins five awards, including Best Film, at the 70th British Academy Film Awards.  (Post)
News source(s): BBC News, The Guardian
Credits: 




Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
 JuneGloom07  Talk 21:16, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]









[Posted] German presidential election, 2017
[edit]








Proposed image


Article: German presidential election, 2017 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Frank-Walter Steinmeier is elected President of Germany.  (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits: 




Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: I do note that in Germany, the executive head is the Chancellor, the President has some power so I don't know if this really does qualify for the ITNR and/or coverage for ITN (only just saw it pass on a headline when checking for a source elsewhere). There's some sourcing problems in the election format. MASEM (t) 14:35, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • I know far more about pre-WWII German politics than I do about the present day, but my understanding is that essentially the structure is the same as it was from 1919-1934? The President holds significant constitutional power, and has more discretion in how they use it than say, the British Monarch, but effectively they're a figurehead except for times of constitutional crisis? StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 16:04, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


The German presidency is a titular, symbolic office, the main function of which is to represent Germany at formal events, such as greeting visiting national leaders, or at international commemorative observances. While formally head of state, the president has no political power of his own, which on the national level is wielded by the chancellor of Germany, head of government in Germany's parliamentary system. Sca (talk) 16:28, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. The office of President in Germany is more or less the same as the position held by Queen Elizabeth II in the UK, less the glamor of the monarchy. It is a figurehead position intended to relieve the Chancellor of the ceremonial duties normally associated with a head of state. I do however believe it is ITNR. So assuming article quality is up to scratch (I haven't looked) I'd support it. 17:00, 12 February 2017 (UTC) -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:35, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


(edit conflict)



Yeah, the president is basically a 'goodwill ambassador,' at which President Gauck has excelled. The president may allude to national policy positions established by the political leadership, but does not devise or advocate policy on his (or her) own. Sca (talk)


  • Oppose on current article quality - article is written from the perspective of before the election took place, and there are less than a dozen words in the body on the actual outcome. But I acknowledge that this definitely qualifies as ITN/R as, ceremonial or not (indeed, elected or not) heads of state are on the list. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 16:51, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


The selection of Steinmeier, the obvious candidate, was worked out well in advance; his election by the Bundesversammlung was pro forma. Sca (talk) 17:07, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



Just a note that as a new head of state, this election ITNR regardless of how important the position is. This has been hashed out before and did not really go anywhere. Mamyles (talk) 15:21, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



For the umpteenth time, been there, done that. Sca (talk) 23:45, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

And it got fixed.  Do it properly and you'll get results, as long as there's an admin working... The Rambling Man (talk) 23:48, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


RD: Raymond Smullyan
[edit]




Article: Raymond Smullyan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: "Exapand" tag on Philosophy section. Would be nice to expand, but not entirely clear if this section needs expansion prior to posting. LukeSurl t c 12:22, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



February 11
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February 11, 2017 (2017-02-11) (Saturday)
        

        
    

    

                
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[Posted] RD: Fab Melo
[edit]




Article: Fab Melo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Daily News
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: NBA player who died tragically young. EternalNomad (talk) 03:04, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



Actually, it's in the lede. There should be a section or text in the body (particularly given that there's question of how he died, and that he had gone back to Brazil), but that's the only thing that I see that needs fixing. --MASEM (t) 03:45, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



Statistics are referenced through external links, which is how things are done in featured biographies like Tim Duncan, Michael Jordan and Yao Ming. Morningstar1814 (talk) 22:20, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



That still doesn't seem to be enough information to warrant posting. Check the other posted RDs and you'll see. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 21:11, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've written other RDs that have been posted. Please be more specific because I don't see a problem here. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:41, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, it's fine. UNSC Luke 1021 don't tell regulars what is needed, that's too patronising for words.  As for this item, good updates, my support.  The Rambling Man (talk) 21:54, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



February 10
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February 10, 2017 (2017-02-10) (Friday)
        

        
    

    

                
Armed conflicts and attacks


  • French police arrest three men and a 16-year-old girl found with bomb-making materials in a Montpellier flat. The female suspect had been spotted online saying she wanted to either leave for the Syria-Iraq conflict or mount an attack in France, and recorded a video in which she pledged allegiance to ISIL. (BBC)
    • 

  • In Hong Kong,  over 16 were injured, and an incoherent man  was charged with arson after an alleged firebomb attack on a rush hour Hong Kong metro commuter train. The man set fire to himself and others with a flammable liquid for an unspecified personal reason, but officials found no evidence of a terrorist motive. (Independent)





                
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  • European Union–The Gambia relations






                
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[Closed] The Daily Mail criticizes Wikipedia ban
[edit]






Consensus will not develop. Stephen 09:33, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






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Article: Daily Mail (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Daily Mail calls its Wikipedia ban a 'cynical politically motivated attempt to stifle the free press'.  (Post)
News source(s): PressGazette
Credits: 




Article updated
 Count Iblis (talk) 22:56, 11 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


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RD: Mike Ilitch
[edit]




Article: Mike Ilitch (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [36],[37],[38]
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Still needs more sourcing – Muboshgu (talk) 02:34, 11 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



February 9
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February 9, 2017 (2017-02-09) (Thursday)
        

        
    

    

                
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[Posted] RD: Tom Raworth
[edit]




Article: Tom Raworth (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Telegraph
Credits: 




Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Died on February 8, but his obit notices are just showing up on the web today. Christian Roess (talk) 22:57, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Sourcing is good,sufficient on impact, looks ready to go. While the death is only just being reported, 2 days isnt that long of a time, and by my judgment, putting this as the 8th is not going to impact its own time on the RD list as it currently stands whether it was listed at the 8th or the 10th). --MASEM (t) 23:56, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Comment: This should be moved to the 8th if he died on the 8th. Isn't that the rule?Zigzig20s (talk) 23:58, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]







It was posted to the 8th.




The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.






Yes, it should be moved to the 8th. The death was reported then, obituaries always take a day or so for less well known individuals. As Masem says above, it won't make a difference to his time on the main page. Stephen 00:03, 11 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No, it should not be moved to the 8th. No, there is no rule Zigzig20s. No, the death was not reported then on the 8th of February Stephen. The first acceptable (reliable) obituary notice appeared on 9 February. The death was listed on Wikipedia (Deaths in 2017 page) by editor Racklever on 10 February, Therefore, I will be bold and move this to 9 February: that is not an unreasonable compromise. Also, I'm moving this to 9 February due to my experience with posting RD's in the past. Because, in fact, the date the RD is posted does make a significant difference to the time it spends on the main page. Christian Roess (talk) 11:53, 11 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The only reason that we generally allow an RD to be cataloged on a different day if there is a severe amount of time between the death and actual reporting in the news, usually due to family privacy/respect issues. This is usually something on the order of 5 or more days. This is not the case here; it was picked up the next day, and the reason why is not clear (The fact that this has gained very little news coverage is a bit weird despite him being notable before). If the death was late on the 8th, the Telegraph may not have had a chance to report until the 9th. Irregardless, that one day difference is not reason to post on a different day of death. Now, as for the impact, there is only 5 open RDs, and none earlier than the 8th. That means for all purposes regardless of what day you think this could be categorized on, it will still be considered on the 8th and will move off without any unusual treatment, and outside of one placement (listed on the 9th) wouldn't really change if you put it on the 9th or 10th. So the concern that the time it spends is really not a major issue here. (I do note that it helps that the article is effectively ready to go for posting outside a few more !votes so it will get up sooner than some of the other later noms). --MASEM (t) 14:17, 11 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Respectfully, Masem, you are incorrect. You appear to be a hardworking & a reliable editor, so let me try to be cordial. But I've been posting here at ITN since last March, and that's not my impression at all of how things work around here. First off, is there a rule establishing when and where an RD nomination is posted? No. And in fact, an RD nomination is not necessarily posted under the date of death. But only as long as the nominator provides a reasonable and reliable explanation that is verifiable (backed up by facts) as to the time lag. And that's what I did. Secondly, it's been my experience, repeatedly, that the specific date an RD candidate is posted under really does make a significant difference. Because it effects both the order and the placement on the ITN/main page. And that, in turn, effects the length of time it spends there. But let me say this: in the past here at ITN, and on most occasions, let me tell you: I've spent literally days revising an RD nomination to insure its quality, only to have it rejected as "stale." Especially during a busy time, with a heavy RD turnover rate. Frankly, I've been burned too many times, not to be very cautious and wary. Christian Roess (talk) 16:57, 11 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Our process has RD noms filed on the day the person died, not the day that the press first reported on it, even if the press don't pick up on it a day or two later; it eliminates this subjectivity of "well, this person's death was only reported here, so it should be treated as here." We only make allowances for when the person's death was purposely withheld by the press, nearly always likely due to request of the relatives of the person, and even then, we're looking for a gap large enough that it would significant affect timing on the RD list - that normally is on the order of 4-5 days or more. There's no indication that Raworth's death was withheld by relatives (in fact, it's very wary that no one really picked up on his death save for the Telegraph, but that's neither here nor there now), so we have no other way to judge beyond that the Telegraph, by the 9th, was reporting his death on the 8th. This always would fall back to the 8th simply because there normally is little difference that one day's placement would affect the RD list (and specifically in the current situation too, we're talking one or two placements). It is unfortunate that so many RDs go stale because the BLP before the RD are in terrible shape, but now that we accept any notable person's RD, we have to be a stickler on the quality issues so many RDs do expire out, but in most cases, that's rarely due to the RD date posting, but lack of effort by those that nominate. --MASEM (t) 18:49, 11 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This forum is called In the News, and Raworth's death was first "in the news" on February 9-10, not on the day he died. That's how we stay relevant around here. Now, according to sources I've cited in the Raworth article (but are not directly quoted in his wiki article) Raworth's death was reported on February 8 via Facebook when Raworth's wife, Val, sent an email to poet Charles Bernstein, informing him of her husband's death. In turn, Bernstein posted this info on his Facebook page. Well, Facebook is not an acceptable source here on Wikipedia (obviously), so no way to post this to RD/ITN on the day of his death. Next, Raworth's death was reported on by The Poetry Foundation website with only this info: Tom Raworth (1938-2017), but nothing about the specific day of his death, (ie. Feb 8th). Again, not acceptable by Wikipedia standards (and btw, is the Poetry Foundation considered an acceptable source for reporting a death?). Finally, the Poetry Foundation did update its reporting, along with The Telegraph, and both did their obituaries late in the day on February 9. And these, along with his other obit notices, were not showing up in web searches until February 10. And that's my point: in my opinion, I've provided a reasonable and verifiable explanation for posting this RD when I did. Let me make another important point here, too. We do not necessarily (there are exceptions) figure in a notability criteria in our determination regarding which RD candidate is, ultimately, posted to the main page. However, those media sources which we rely on (because they're deemed acceptable and reliable according to the Wikipedia community at large) really do, in fact, use a notability criteria when they post their obituary. That means that these same notable figures, who have their deaths reported almost immediately, have a considerable head start in the nomination process here at ITN. I can think of many examples, but my comment is getting too long. So quickly here's one example: the RD nominations of Arnold Palmer (d. 25 Sept 2016) and Bill Mollison (d. 24 Sept 2016) who both died one day apart. Needless to say, and without going into details, Palmer is the more notable figure and, indeed, his nomination took precedence, even though Palmer's death happened the day after Mollison's. Palmer's death was reported immediately. It took many days until Mollison's death was reported by a "reliable" source. Christian Roess (talk) 20:32, 11 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]





[Posted] RD: André Salvat
[edit]




Article: André Salvat (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): "Le Compagnon de la Libération André Salvat est mort". La Croix. February 10, 2017. Retrieved February 10, 2017.; "Communiqué de Jean-Marc Todeschini, secrétaire d'Etat chargé des Anciens combattants et de la Mémoire: Décès d'André Salvat". French Ministry of Defense. February 9, 2017. Retrieved February 10, 2017.
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Highly decorated French veteran of World War II, the Indochinese War, the Algerian War; also served in the DRC... Zigzig20s (talk) 15:53, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



Thanks. Shall we make a rule so that the process becomes less arbitrary?Zigzig20s (talk) 14:50, 11 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No.  The Rambling Man (talk) 20:33, 11 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Why not?Zigzig20s (talk) 22:14, 11 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

We don't count votes.  Or at least, good admins don't.  The Rambling Man (talk) 22:19, 11 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Posted Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 14:40, 11 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose/pull. I don' see what makes this guy notable, he was low-level officer in a war where millions served at the same level. His main claim to fame appears to be his later service in the Algerian War as Delange's aide-de-camp, but that is far below the treshold required for ITN. The article is in a horrible stub-like shape, it heaps very generalized and non-specific praise on him from a politician concerned with veterans affairs, but what he is most notable for is only mentioned with a short sentence with no details. The Algerian War was a highly brutal and controversial war where the French committed numerous war crimes[39], and for someone who served in his position in the Algerian War for many years, when hundreds of thousands of Algerians were killed and many were tortured, raped etc., we would expect the article to elaborate somewhat on his actual role during that war. --Tataral (talk) 13:42, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


He was highly decorated. I'm afraid your opinion on the Algerian War is irrelevant. If you can find more reliable third-party sources about his time in that war, do expand that section; but WP:Work in progress.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:30, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That is completely irrelevant; ITN is based on newsworthiness, not on whether someone had received a couple of medals noone outside their country has heard of (and the sheer number of people said to be "highly decorated," whatever that means... we are talking millions for each world war alone, and vast numbers from other wars in the following decades, so it's clearly not sufficient by itself, particularly when he had a more noteworthy military career at a much higher level in the Algerian War which the article completely fails to adequately address). There is nothing in the article that supports posting him in RD; also please note that it is the nominator's responsibility that the article is in decent shape, not the editors opposing the item here. --Tataral (talk) 14:04, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

RDs on ITN are no longer evaluated on importance. As long as the person has a standalone article (thus presuming they are notable) they get an RD as long as the quality is there. You're free to debate if the person's really notable at the article or at AFD, but we no longer use that here. --MASEM (t) 14:28, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As pointed out above, there are serious problems with the quality of this article. His main claim to fame, a several year-long service in a reasonably high position in the Algerian War, is mentioned with a single sentence and no details except stating that he was there. --Tataral (talk) 14:43, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No, Wikipedia is based on reliable third-party sources and they all highlight his WWII service. That is "his main claim to fame" (or rather, what makes him notable) according to those sources. When you can find more sources about his role in the Algerian War, feel free to expand the article; but his obituaries only mentioned it in passing and we cannot do original research.Zigzig20s (talk) 14:47, 14 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


[Closed] Discovery of 12th Dead Sea Scrolls cave
[edit]






No consensus. Stephen 22:30, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.









Article: Dead Sea Scrolls (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A new 12th cave was discovered, the first cave in over 60 years. This is a tremendous archaeological find.  (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Archaeologists discover a 12th cave used to store the Dead Sea Scrolls, the first such find in 60 years. 
News source(s): http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Hebrew-University-archaeologists-find-12th-Dead-Sea-Scrolls-cave-480966, CNN
Credits: 




Article needs updating





  • Support alt blurb.  The update is rather light and does not convey the significance of this find, or even tell what was found within the cave (unlike the treatment that the other 11 caves get in the article).  However, the details will probably make their way into the article in the next few days, and the obvious encyclopedic nature of the subject and the otherwise very good quality of the article leads me to support this.128.214.163.204 (talk) 08:24, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose target article has been tagged since 2012 at least, and has at least three separate orange-level tags.  Not good enough. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:52, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


I don't have the knowledge to know for certain, but the tags seem to have been addressed and simply not removed: there's a "needs expansion" tag within an already quite expansive section and a "needs update" on a section that has been updated multiple times since 2012.  The only tag that makes any sense is the "external links" tag.128.214.163.204 (talk) 09:09, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


And the "legal expert needed" tag, didn't see that.128.214.163.204 (talk) 09:11, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Comment while the article needs to be updated to reflect more of the new findings, the article itself should be enough to warrant a read based on the finding of a new cave. This might even be a great way to get someone interested and edit about the new cave and improve the article. Sir Joseph (talk) 20:20, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose, this is not a "tremendous archeological find". What nonsense. The cave was thoroughly looted and will contribute nothing to scholarship. Israeli archeologists are some of the worst hypesters of all time. Do not trust their bullhockey. Abductive (reasoning) 04:48, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]









The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.




February 8
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February 8, 2017 (2017-02-08) (Wednesday)
        

        
    

    

                
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RD: Peter Mansfield
[edit]




Article: Peter Mansfield (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits: 




Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Nobel prize winner Andrew D. (talk) 14:15, 11 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



RD: Nicolai Gedda
[edit]




Article: Nicolai Gedda (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Pizzicato
Credits: 




Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
 --BabbaQ (talk) 08:49, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



[Posted] 2017 Somali presidential election
[edit]




Articles: Somali presidential election, 2017 (talk · history · tag) and Mohamed Abdullahi Mohamed (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Mohamed Abdullahi Mohamed, a Somali-US dual citizen, becomes the new president of Somalia.  (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Mohamed Abdullahi Mohamed becomes the new president of Somalia. 
News source(s): "Former PM and dual-US citizen wins Somali presidential election", The Guardian, 8 Feb 2017
Credits: 




One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
 Zigzig20s (talk) 18:20, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



Why not? That seems significant to me.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:13, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


But I suppose the altblurb is fine.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:49, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



Yes, the BBC article explains that the airport was the safest place to hold the election. 10 candidates in the first round, two in the second round, which is when he won.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:30, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


It was an indirect election - only parliamentarians could vote. --LukeSurl t c

The campaign article looks much better now!Zigzig20s (talk) 22:17, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]





  • Another Comment - I've added a {{expand section}} template in the '2017 election' section. Once again, will not support until this is done. This is my final problem. I have no more side quests for you. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 02:08, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


User:UNSC Luke 1021: I've expanded the section a little. How much more do you want please? We are running out of time now. There will not be as much content out there than for Western elections.Zigzig20s (talk) 07:05, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is fine, I have voted support. Thank you for cleaning up an article on an important election in Somalia. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 16:20, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


I have tentatively removed the "expand section" tag after it's come up five lines. I hope that's OK.Zigzig20s (talk) 07:20, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Support alt blurb Article is fine for posting. Yogwi21 (talk) 07:51, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support per ITNR and article quality.  Were it not for ITNR, I would oppose this because it doesn't seem to be an election at all.  A foreign-government funded congress of a subset of parliament, locked in a warehouse on a tiny strip of land that enjoys the security provided by foreign militaries, chooses from a slate of candidates of ambiguous names, a president of a government which is not even in control of the country.  I'm not even sure what this should be called.  A government-in-exile domestically?128.214.163.204 (talk) 08:41, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Well, it is not our job as Wikipedia editors to pass judgements on the electoral systems of foreign nations. We simply relay sourced content; we don't make history. Thanks for the 'support'.Zigzig20s (talk) 08:49, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

To the IP user, ITNR events do not require support on the merits; we are only evaluating article quality.  As Zigzig indicates, that's how they conduct their election for head of state.  It isn't for us to pass judgement on it.  I believe there are several nations where the head of state is chosen by the parliament/legislature(President of Israel is one).  This position seems to be the generally recognized leader of the country(even if protected by foreign armies) 331dot (talk) 12:06, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. And do we have consensus to post this yet please?Zigzig20s (talk) 12:31, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In an earlier age, such an arrangement would be called a "protectorate" and the insistence that this government rules all of Somalia would greatly offend the actual indigenous governments (Rep. Somaliland, Puntland, etc.) who are able to conduct their business without such "protection", but who would otherwise be poor foils for foreign patrons.  R. Somaliland even issues their own passports.  Procedurally, there's no room to oppose this, I just want to make clear that my objection had nothing to do with the mechanics of the election as such.128.214.163.199 (talk) 14:51, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Oppose, at least for now Quality remains a problem. We are told there were 24 candidates based on a Tweet (Twitter is not normally considered a reliable source). Several of these are listed as notable, without any supporting citation, and the others are unlisted. We are then only given the votes for the top 4 candidates in the 1st round. And these are only the most immediately obvious quality issues - there may well be other less obvious ones. I appreciate that Reliable Sources are hard to come by for this election, and that there is at least arguably a WP:BIAS problem in not posting an African election, hence my qualifier 'at least for now'. But I think people here need at least to be aware of these serious quality issues before we decide to post in ignorance of them.Tlhslobus (talk) 14:01, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • I've done a little bit more work on the article. As far as I can tell, there is nowhere that is reporting online the full results of the 1st round of voting. Regarding the candidates list, copying out all 24 candidates from this list is an option, but instead I've reduced the listing in the "candidates" section to the 4 persons who got past the first round of voting - each of which is WP:notable (being an incumbent or former PM or President). Realistically, the level of sourcing we have here probably as good as it's going to get for Somalia. --LukeSurl t c 15:00, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


I don't see Twitter being used as a reference. Was this removed? Can we please agree this is as good as it gets and reach consensus now? He was elected yesterday and it is ludicrous to drag this on...Zigzig20s (talk) 21:43, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No, Zigzig20s, the Twitter reference is still there, but it is now only found as reference [1] (with Twitter now invisible except in the URL) within footnote 1, where it's just the source for the claim of 24 candidates, with another source being given for the claim of 23 candidates, and the main text saying "23 or 24". It used to be the sole citation for the candidates section (see here), but that is no longer the case. The changes (for which thanks, LukeSurl), may well be as good as it's ever going to get. In any case it's now academic unless somebody calls for the item to be pulled on quality grounds, which I won't be doing. Tlhslobus (talk) 14:16, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The female candidate left the race--that's in one of the sources. I'm doing two RDs right now and then I need to do real "work" outside WP. I think this is as good as it gets for now and we've all done a phenomenal job.Zigzig20s (talk) 14:24, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



Thanks. Can you please add his picture instead of the football player's?Zigzig20s (talk) 22:39, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think you need to choose the picture you want to include. Just go to Wikimedia Commons, search up his name and pick one that you like. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 22:41, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you to the admin who did it!Zigzig20s (talk) 08:55, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Support - I prefer the alt-blurb because his being a dual US-Somali citizen seems irrelevant. Otherwise, the article has plenty of references and is well-written for the moment being. Kurtis (talk) 04:16, 10 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


[Posted] RD: Tara Palmer-Tomkinson
[edit]




Article: Tara Palmer-Tomkinson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The GuardianBBC
Credits: 




Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
  — Amakuru (talk) 16:07, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



Huh? The article is almost entirely referenced, as far as I can see. What do you feel is lacking?  — Amakuru (talk) 22:05, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Mjroots left his comment four hours ago so it's safe to assume he was reviewing a different version from the current one.  The Rambling Man (talk) 22:08, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's still lacking in places, all of which are tagged. Mjroots (talk) 06:39, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Almost there, just the lede to sort and the books to reference and it'll be good to go. Mjroots (talk) 20:57, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



Sorry, I was always more of a Tiggy man myself. And she's still alive and kicking. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:12, 9 February 2017 (UTC) [reply]



[Posted] RD: Alan Simpson
[edit]




Article: Alan Simpson (scriptwriter) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Guardian, ITV, Telegraph, Huff Po, New York Times
Credits: 




Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Rather short article Martinevans123 (talk) 13:20, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]





  • I have just trimmed it down (remember, we have a main article for the pair, so we don't need all the details, just enough to establish importance) to make it ITN ready. --MASEM (t) 00:30, 11 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






 Done. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:29, 11 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



February 7
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February 7, 2017 (2017-02-07) (Tuesday)
        

        
    

    

                
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[Posted] RD Richard Hatch
[edit]




Article: Richard Hatch (actor) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): USA Today
Credits: 




Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Significant sourcing problems needed to be fixed before posting. MASEM (t) 01:54, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






[Posted to RD]: Hans Rosling
[edit]




Article: Hans Rosling (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.svd.se/just-nu-hans-rosling-dod
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Prominent global health, data visualization guru, TED speaker. Missing references all fixed. Fuzheado | Talk 16:55, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



February 6
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February 6, 2017 (2017-02-06) (Monday)
        

        
    

    

                
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[Posted] RD: Inge Keller
[edit]




Article: Inge Keller (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Spiegel DW
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: A well known German stage actress and has been called "one of the most prominent performers in the former German Democratic Republic". --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 01:25, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






Pull - I am not voting pull for the nomination itself but rather the rapidness of posting. Can I ask why this was posted so soon? There was little to no discussion and no votes as far as I can tell. I think we should pull this to generate a clear consensus. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk) 16:10, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






  • - That was the issue; I thought we needed community consensus as well. When I was informed that we didn't, I struck my vote. UNSC Luke 1021 (talk)


  • There should be consensus about the quality/sourcing, or at least some comment towards that. My statement above, plus TDKR's affirmation they fixed and added, are part of that. I would presume Stephen doublechecked before posting. I personally would have liked to see a couple more but I doubt they would have commented about any problems, so it's not really harmful. --MASEM (t) 14:53, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


[Posted] RD: Joost van der Westhuizen
[edit]




Article: Joost van der Westhuizen (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [4]
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: South African former rugby union player who actively campaigned for issues relating to Motor Neurone Disease. Drchriswilliams (talk) 13:13, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]





  • It's very valid to question if for an RD nom if person is truly notable to have a standalone article, since there is no guarenteed process to check that an article topic is notable when a standalone article is created. Certainly not the case here, but questioning notability if there's been no AFD process and sources fails WP:N is perfectly in line. --MASEM (t) 14:50, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]




  • Except I would hope that as part of the quality check of the article , looking at the sources and finding, say, all primary sources, would be called out. We've yet to actually have a case of some truly non-notable person posted here, but we need to have that exceptional allowance that if someone managed to push through an RD that absolutely fails all notability guidelines, that fails our quality guidelines, and that should be rejected. Now, there would be the case where the person may be borderline (say, one RS and several primary) on notability, but I would agree that here at ITN is not the place to debate that, outside of how that affects quality issues. --MASEM (t) 15:06, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • If when doing a quality check you find a serious problem like that then either fix it, tag it, prod it or nominate it for deletion (and preferably note here that you've done it). Any article currently nominated for deletion is automatically ineligible for the main page, a red tag will never get a consensus to post and an orange tag almost never. Thryduulf (talk) 16:27, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



[Posted] RD: Irwin Corey
[edit]




Article: Irwin Corey (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes
Credits: 




Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Should the filmography be sourced? Dat GuyTalkContribs 21:18, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



February 5
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[Posted] Super Bowl LI
[edit]




Article: Super Bowl LI (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In American football, the New England Patriots defeat the Atlanta Falcons to win Super Bowl LI.  (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In American football, the New England Patriots defeat the Atlanta Falcons 34–28 to win Super Bowl LI, the first to go into overtime. 
Credits: 




Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Preparatory nom to have eyes to make sure the game's article is in shape prior to the game. Obviously, a recap of the game, its stats and other events of the broadcast need to be added after it is completed, but this is usually done on the fly.  Also I note that we generally include the MVP once this is determined (if anything, as an image with the blurb "MVP (name) pictured"). MASEM (t) 23:13, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • This wasn't necessary. The article has lots of eyes on it. I added a bunch of {{cn}} tags yesterday and most have been resolved. The article should be fine soon after the game ends, but it hasn't started yet. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:33, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

    • For ITNRs like these sporting events, the more attention from ITNC reviewers (not necessary editors) to make sure they're happy with the article just prior to the actual event, it significantly helps smooth the posting process. I did look at it before posting this, and I didn't see anything, but I'm just one voice. --MASEM (t) 23:40, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

      • It's always a tricky one. Vote-counting mop holders have been known to post ITNRs due to the extent of support, completely ignoring the fact that an article is crap. The issue being that the larger pool of admins who do the right thing and wait for issues to be ironed out do not hold a veto on posting.
        If however anyone is looking for things to do while enjoying the final 17 minutes of pretzelfest, sourcing is a little bit thin in the teams' sections. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 02:08, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Cool trivia: Another fact we can add to the blurb is that this is the first Super Bowl ever to go to overtime.Canuck89 (chat with me) 03:19, February 6, 2017 (UTC)
    • 

  • Alt blurb added to mention OT. SounderBruce 03:28, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support once summary is added. I suggest no score mention, just overtime. Nergaal (talk) 03:30, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support alt blurb, major event. --AmaryllisGardener talk 03:33, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Oppose as a sports event of very little interest outside the country in which it is played. Vanamonde (talk) 03:41, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


@Vanamonde93:  That's blatantly false- and even if true, single-country objections are not considered valid(see "please do not" above) as very little would be posted otherwise.  Furthermore, this event is on ITNR and will be posted upon a quality update; if you wish to see it removed, you are free to propose it. 331dot (talk) 04:10, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Muboshgu: Don't be too quick to accuse somebody of trolling. I'm striking my oppose as this is not the place to discuss the ITN/R criteria, but my opinion has not changed; has anybody taken a look at how dominant events from Western Europe/the U.S. are in that list? Vanamonde (talk) 04:49, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Vanamonde93: If not trolling, it seems WP:POINTY, since it's ITN/R and even TRM knows its significance. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:26, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I missed the bit about ITN/R the first time. You are misunderstanding what WP:POINT means, too: I was not disrupting Wikipedia to make a point: I was saying exactly what I thought, in a situation where it was (unbeknownst to me at the time) not applicable. That's all. I'm not really interested in discussing this further. Vanamonde (talk) 17:34, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I can understand if you missed the ITN/R bit, even though ITN/R noms are a different color to show they are ITN/R. I'll finish by quoting the above: "Please do not oppose an item because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. This applies to a high percentage of the content we post and is unproductive." – Muboshgu (talk) 18:13, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Muboshgu: even TRM knows its significance!  Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.  The Rambling Man (talk) 19:54, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

That "stopped clock" reference goes for me too. But when we agree on a U.S. sporting event, I'm shocked anyone disagrees. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:14, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



Why not the FIFA World Cup Final uh, Final? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 09:59, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I said "probably".  The Rambling Man (talk) 10:09, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


And for the record, we would post the results of the FIFA World Cup if it were happening right now, as we have always done before. Kurtis (talk) 10:57, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]










  • Comment I've uploaded an image to Commons which shows Tom Brady with the Vince Lombardi Trophy after the game. The image is rather busy and might not be a suitable replacement for the one already posted. However, it is more relevant to the blurb than the generic picture of Tom Brady. FallingGravity 01:35, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

    No.  It's barely bigger than a thumbnail and badly focused. Stephen 01:44, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Comment there seemed to be greater consensus for mentioning OT than there was for highlighting the MVP (who, as is the case more often than not, was the winning team's QB). If we're doing the latter we should certainly be doing the former. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 10:49, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

    Overtime is trivia.  MVP is the usual way to add a picture to the item. Stephen 11:30, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

    As far as your latter point is concerned... why? There was a picture from an article on the same day, and as far as I can see zero discussion here calling for that to be changed. There was by contrast consensus that the first ever Super Bowl to go into OT was worthy of mentioning, to demonstrate the closeness of the contest without sensationalising. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 12:05, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

    Our longstanding practice is to update the image when feasible (with variety in mind), with or without a discussion calling for such a change.  In this instance, I purposely delayed the replacement to prevent the MVP image's chronological collision with other photographs of American sportsmen and allow the previous image to remain up for about 1 ½ days.
    If there's consensus to mention the overtime (or even if there isn't), the image swap certainly can be reversed.  —David Levy 12:31, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

    It wasn't a complaint about the image addition per se. I have no strong feelings on that, certainly not strong enough to warrant a reversion. It was more of a comparative point – that of the changes to our usual formulaic blurb for this ITNR were discussed, the one which was barely mentioned happened whilst the one discussed in multiple places in this section with broad support hasn't. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 13:19, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

    It wasn't a complaint about the image addition per se. I have no strong feelings on that, certainly not strong enough to warrant a reversion.
    I mean that we can switch back to the protest photograph to accommodate an overtime mention without creating an excessively long blurb (or, regardless, simply for the sake of variety).
    It was more of a comparative point – that of the changes to our usual formulaic blurb for this ITNR were discussed, the one which was barely mentioned happened whilst the one discussed in multiple places in this section with broad support hasn't.
    As Stephen noted, the MVP (or equivalent) mention is part of our standard format for applicable sport items when a suitable photograph is available.  Consensus is longstanding and valid unless and until a new discussion shows otherwise.
    I'm unsure of whether consensus for an overtime mention exists in this instance (and I'm not arguing that it does or doesn't).  Given my ignorance of Superb Owls and their handeggs (and sports in general), I prefer to remain on the sidelines.  (That's a footballing term, right?)  —David Levy 18:24, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    

    (ec) The overtime is not trivia. It was the first one in the SB, making it historically notable. 331dot (talk) 12:07, 8 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


[Posted] 2017 Africa Cup of Nations
[edit]




Article: 2017 Africa Cup of Nations (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In association football, the Africa Cup of Nations concludes with Cameroon defeating Egypt in the final.  (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In association football, the Africa Cup of Nations concludes with Cameroon defeating Egypt in the final. 
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits: 




The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
 Yogwi21 (talk) 23:04, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



"Subjective coverage"? Can we assume you actually meant to write something like "substantive coverage"? Tlhslobus (talk) 11:18, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]







  • Support The good prose summary mentioned above by LukeSur1 seems to meet our quality requirements, and we link to that from the main article. If somebody wants to duplicate or partly duplicate that summary in the main article, I won't object, but I don't see much sense in using such lack of unnecessary duplication as grounds for not posting. (Indeed it would actually be quadruplication since the result is also shown without prose, and given in prose in the lead. I've added a nameref to the citation in the lead just in case anybody wants to copy the lead sentence into the section on the final). Failure to post this African item based on such debatable technicalities is arguably also liable to be seen as yet more WP:BIAS.  Tlhslobus (talk) 11:42, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support - major sport event. The article is good. - EugεnS¡m¡on 20:23, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Posted Stephen 23:42, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


[Posted] 2017 Romanian protests
[edit]




Article: 2017 Romanian protests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ More than 500,000 Romanians protest against attempts by Romanian Government to undo several anti-corruption safeguards  (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ More than 500,000 people protest in Romania following the transition of power to PM Sorin Grindeanu and amendment of the country's penal code 
Alternative blurb II: ​ Following protest of more than 500,000 people, Romanian Government reverses its plans to undo anti-corruption safeguards 
Alternative blurb III: ​ Following large protests, the Romanian government rescinds an emergency decree commuting sentences of some nonviolent criminals and decriminalizing certain corruption cases. 
News source(s): CNN, BBC
Credits: 



 Zigzig20s (talk) 12:51, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support maybe add blurb. --Jenda H. (talk) 15:03, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Comment I do think we should post something about this, but do we need this ongoing? Yes, the protests are going, but the individual daily events of the protest seem calm in that there's little violence, just larger crowds. I would suggest an ITNC, "More than 300,000 people protest over four days in Romania following the transition of power to PM Sorin Grindeanu and amendment of the country's penal code" (or something like that). I would not have an issue with it being on the 4th even though the event was in January, simply because the protests have only started growing to a point of gaining more international coverage. I just don't see ongoing as necessary here, though. (eg: there are still protests against Trump's immigration ban, and its still making news, but for ITN purposes it was the one acknowledgement that happened that is why it was a ITNC blurb and not an ongoing). --MASEM (t) 15:11, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support blurb then ongoing. Today, began protests against the president Klaus Iohannis, people asking his resignation.  It is a conflict between Romanians. - EugεnS¡m¡on 15:47, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Comment: Sure, we could do a blurb. I followed the advice I was given there, but Masem's blurb seems OK.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:56, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support in principle over half a million people have been reported, but little-to-no reports of violent incidents. Nergaal (talk) 19:44, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • EC. The blurb seems a bit POV (not that I don't believe what it is saying), but isn't there a way to phrase it more accurately, such as, "undo anti-corruption safeguards" or something? (I see that somebody was on it.) Abductive (reasoning) 19:52, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support, but only with a modified blurb noting the government's intent to rescind the measure. Mélencron (talk) 19:58, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Please help me with the triple negation. Nergaal (talk) 20:18, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm concerned about wording this as neutrally as possible. See alt blurb 3 for my suggestion; the degree isn't explicitly one to reverse anti-corruption efforts in Romania, but it's widely been interpreted as such because of its obvious implications (freeing politicians, mostly of the PSD, suspected of corruption). See if you can cut it down a bit? Mélencron (talk) 20:26, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Seems fine, but I changed the linked article to a non-stub. Nergaal (talk) 21:14, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


  • Comment. The article should be protected, because some people are trying to add propaganda. Also they are deleting information about protests against President. - EugεnS¡m¡on 21:45, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support altblurb 3 but I note several Reaction sections are not sourced, and needs to be for this to be posted. --MASEM (t) 23:17, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support alt 3. Large-scale protests, dominates local news, etc. Banedon (talk) 00:50, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Support alt 2 or 3. Mass protests causing a complete 180 on government policy without violently removing said government. A rarity. Furthermore the level of international coverage is significant, despite the initial lack of interest. For Eastern Europe a rarity indeed. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 02:21, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Comment on the 500,000 mentioned in the blurb. Where is the number 500,000 from? I didn't see that in the linked BBC and CNN references. The article mentions "600,000" but it's linked to a foreign-language website. Someone needs to double-verify that the source does explicitly report such a high number and if the source is an RS. Accurate crowd counting is extremely hard, and we shouldn't just believe extremely large number just because people said so and there are a lot of people in the photos. HaEr48 (talk) 03:00, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Another BBC article backs up the figure, as does Euronews. Smurrayinchester 08:30, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



February 4
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February 4, 2017 (2017-02-04) (Saturday)
        

        
    

    

                
Armed conflicts and attacks


                
International relations






                
Politics and elections


                
Science and nature


  • The cave squeaker (Arthroleptis troglodytes), a critically endangered species of frog, is located and captured for the first time since 1962. Scientists announce plans to breed. (The New York Times)






[Posted] RD: Bano Qudsia
[edit]




Article: Bano Qudsia (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Dawn, The Tribune
Credits: 




Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Acclaimed author from Pakistan having won various government awards. Unfortunately not much info is available about her and her works. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 16:55, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



February 3
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February 3, 2017 (2017-02-03) (Friday)
        

        
    

    

                
Armed conflicts and attacks






                
Disasters and accidents






                
International relations






                
Law and crime








[Closed] EU Malta Declaration
[edit]






No consensus. Stephen 05:09, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.









Article: Malta Declaration (EU) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Amid the European migrant crisis leaders of the European Union agree upon the Malta Declaration that focuses on measures to stem the flow of immigration from unstable Libya to Italy and the EU.  (Post)
Credits: 



Nominator's comments: Not sure how notable it is but I do think that it's far more notable and newsworthy than about 1/3 of the other items that make it into the "In the news" section. Fixuture (talk) 22:34, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak oppose Seems to be more about a commitment to take action rather than any binding steps to help to stem the flow, but I may be misintepreting from the article (which thus implies the article needs improvements). --MASEM (t) 00:00, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

    • @Masem: Well it's a commitment in the form of a declaration of outlined specific steps. One could argue to what extend that would be "binding" but I'd say such a joint declaration is pretty binding. Either way I find this declaration way more notable than a large share of other items that make it into the In the news-section. --Fixuture (talk) 19:51, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
    • 

  • Weak oppose per Masem. The sources in the article that I read are silent on actual actions as well. Banedon (talk) 00:59, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

    • 

  • Oppose It seems that nothing at all has come of this, and the article is rather poor as well.  I'm not even sure this should have its own article, as everything in it could be added to any one of the other articles detailing the immigration crisis.128.214.53.104 (talk) 11:32, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

    • @128.214.53.104: True, however: a) the article is relatively poor (still sufficient imo) mainly due to not much information being available for it / useful here as of right now and b) of course nothing has come out of it yet - it's just the declaration not the implementation of it but I do think that the declaration is notable and that there's probably no specific action that could warrant an In the news-section inclusion except the declaration made prior to said. Also I don't think we should cram stuff into other articles for no reason - this deserves its own article; it could/should be linked / shortly mentioned from other ones though. --Fixuture (talk) 19:51, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.




[Posted] 2016–17 Rohingya persecution in Myanmar
[edit]




Article: 2016–17 Rohingya persecution in Myanmar (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The United Nations releases a report stating that the Myanmar Army has committed serious human rights violations, including mass killings, systemic sexual violence, and the killing of children, during the ongoing persecution of Rohingya people in the country  (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The United Nations releases a report stating that the Myanmar Army has committed serious  human rights violations against the Rohingya people, including mass killings, systemic sexual violence, and the killing of children 
Alternative blurb II: ​ The United Nations releases a report about the ongoing persecution of Rohingya people, stating that it has included mass killings, systemic sexual violence, and the killing of children 
Alternative blurb III: ​ A United Nations report about the ongoing persecution of Rohingya people states that it has included mass killings, systemic sexual violence, and the killing of children 
News source(s): [5][6][7]
Credits: 




Article updated
Nominator's comments: The scale of this persecution is such that it is worth featuring: this report has brought it into the headlines again. Vanamonde (talk) 09:21, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]





I'm on mobile so post it as my proxy. Stephen 06:02, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



[Posted] RD: Rob Stewart
[edit]




Article: Rob Stewart (filmmaker) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety, The Hollywood Reporter
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Shark activist and documentary filmmaker, vanished and drowned while filming his third movie. Note that he vanished on January 31 and likely died then, but his body was only discovered today. Nohomersryan (talk) 03:21, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



[Posted] RD: Gordon Aikman
[edit]




Article: Gordon Aikman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits: 




Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: British ALS campaigner, a really sad story about a cruel disease. EternalNomad (talk) 17:15, 3 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



Are you saying that as a matter of article quality, the POV is a problem? 331dot (talk) 00:40, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No, I am concerned that Scotland is considering leaving the UK to stay in the EU at the moment, and his lede suggests he played a critical role in the "Better Together" campaign. So it's tangential POV (although on the other hand, we can't help that he died when this is happening). The article looks fine otherwise, except one reference is a youtube link, which seems unusual, doesn't it?Zigzig20s (talk) 01:11, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The lede says he was Director of Research for Better Together, which is sourced in the body. That doesn't necessary say he played a "critical role", simple the position he held while in that group. It's a completely neutral statement. --MASEM (t) 01:19, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it's not Better Off Out. My point is that the timing is unfortunate. I would rather we did not promote politically charged articles on the main page.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:23, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


I really think its a extreme stretch that putting on RD a person that was in a named position of an politically-slanted organization (which is an objective and sourced fact) while that political situation is going on is "promoting" the political position. Especially under the current RD stance that any notable individual with a quality article is appropriate. Unfortunate timing, yes, but in no way does that make us look like we're supporting an effort, since if a person associated on the other side of the issue died, and was notable, we'd still post their RD too under the current stance (barring quality articles). --MASEM (t) 01:30, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and actually we've had a number of politically charged articles in the news recently. Perhaps that is inevitable in such a polerized era.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:33, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


I could be swayed to support this if the youtube link and layout issues were fixed.Zigzig20s (talk) 02:08, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


Also, perhaps the layout could be streamlined. There appears to be too many small subsections.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:13, 4 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



February 2
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February 2, 2017 (2017-02-02) (Thursday)
        

        
    

    

                
International relations






                
Law and crime


  • Former HBOS manager Lynden Scourfield and other bankers and consultants are found guilty of corruption and abuse of power in stealing £245 million from the bank and small businesses in a loans scam, which was spent on personal luxuries. Scourfield was sentenced to 11 years in prison. (The Guardian)





                
Politics and elections








February 1
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February 1, 2017 (2017-02-01) (Wednesday)
        

        
    

    

                
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Business and economy






                
Disasters and accidents


  • According to a report released by Malegapuru William Makgoba, 94 mentally ill patients in South Africa died from starvation, dehydration and diarrhea between March and December 2016 because of a "reckless" government attempt to save money by transferring the patients from a specialized institution to care centres with "invalid licenses". (BBC)





                
International relations






                
Law and crime






                
Politics and elections








[Pulled] Vaquita
[edit]




Article: Vaquita (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The International Committee for Recovery of the Vaquita announces (on 1 February 2017) that the population of the vaquita, a porpoise endemic to the northern Gulf of California, has dropped to the brink of extinction at about 30 individuals.  (Post)
News source(s): CIRVA-8 report, Science article
Credits: 



Nominator's comments: It would become only the second recognized cetacean species in history (along with the baiji in about 2006) to go extinct due to human agency, and only the second "megafaunal" vertebrate to go extinct in the last 40 years (since the Japanese sea lion in the 1970s and the Caribbean monk seal in the 1950s). WolfmanSF (talk) 09:27, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



It does now.  There are definitely a large number of smaller mammals, as well as birds, reptiles, amphibians, etc. that are at or heading towards the brink of extinction. What makes this example more unusual and notable is the size of the animal, and the taxonomic category (Cetacea). WolfmanSF (talk) 19:27, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



The report was released on Feb. 1. WolfmanSF (talk) 18:22, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



It is recent news. The report was only published and the numbers were only released on February 1. In 2007 the population was in the hundreds. "Numbers less than 50 MI" is only one of a number of possible criteria for declaring a species critically endangered, and obviously, one that was not applicable for the vaquita in 2007. So, would it be better to not post any news about this situation until it finally does go extinct? Now is its last chance. WolfmanSF (talk) 07:14, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see what relevance the report has, the IUCN has already said (and has done for a decade) that this species is at "high risk of extinction".  The Rambling Man (talk) 07:16, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Do you understand, or care, about the difference between "at high risk of extinction" and "about to go extinct"? WolfmanSF (talk) 07:21, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, thanks, but let's not personalise this.  The Rambling Man (talk) 07:39, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It's nothing personal. My point is, all the arguments used to oppose the posting, or reverse it, were based on confusion or incorrect facts. WolfmanSF (talk) 11:02, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well certainly not from my perspective.  This was declared critically endangered in 2007 by IUCN.  Since then numbers have depleted.  Another report has come out saying they're still on their way down.  There has been no change in official status.  Nothing other than an update to the number.  I don't see that as news at all.  So yes, I think the answer is that if it was declared officially extinct in the wild, that may be newsworthy.  Another entry on the already huge List of extinct cetaceans I suppose? The Rambling Man (talk) 11:11, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

List of extinct cetaceans includes only fossil species. As the intro to the list points out, only two species (not on the list) have gone extinct in historic times (in the last 400 years). The vaquita was declared "critically endangered" in 1996 when it's population stood around 600. Now it's at 30 and is at the last point where this decline could conceivably be reversed. A change in official status is not the point. Sorry, it does seem to me you are being deliberately obtuse. You formed an opinion without understanding the facts, and you can't admit you were wrong. Other newsworthy aspects of the situation include the declaration that recovery efforts on which Mexico and a variety of NGOs have spent tens of millions of dollars have been a failure, and the unprecedented nature of the proposed capture/captive breeding program. WolfmanSF (talk) 17:30, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I was only wrong about the year the IUCN declared it to be critically endangered.  Now we're at somebody's idea of a point of no return.  I'm not being deliberately obtuse, any obtuseness is purely accidental, but thanks for your lack of good faith.  Incidentally, I was far from the only person who didn't see the point of the posting in the first place.  When it goes extinct, then yes, we can post it, especially as you seem so convinced that's now 100% inevitable.  The Rambling Man (talk) 15:59, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Inevitable UNLESS drastic action is taken now. Which, of course, publicity might facilitate. WolfmanSF (talk) 21:18, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS.  What you've said has underpinned the fact that nothing, really, has changed.  The species is at high risk of extinction, and has been since 1996 and it's been getting worse rather than better.  The Rambling Man (talk) 21:22, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Let it be known that TRM supports animal extinction.</sarc> --WaltCip (talk) 21:28, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


[Posted] RD: Desmond Carrington
[edit]




Article: Desmond Carrington (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits: 




Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Veteran radio broadcaster, 35-year career at BBC. Mjroots (talk) 07:37, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]



[Withdrawn] ZeniMax/Oculus VR lawsuit
[edit]






Self-withdrawing, good enough reasons give in the !votes below --MASEM (t) 18:33, 2 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.









Article: Oculus VR (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A jury awards ZeniMax Media $500 million in damages over intellectual property concerns on its virtual reality technology from Oculus VR.  (Post)
News source(s): CNN, BBC
Credits: 



Nominator's comments: The obvious: the decision will be appealed, $500M is small change in the world of business, etc - I recognize this has a ways to go for posting consensus. However, this is a big lawsuit in the growing area of VR technology, and that given that Oculus is owned by Facebook and was to purposely help drive its VR efforts, this does impact how it will approach. I have just spent a bit of time getting this updated about the lawsuit at least. Please note the bold link is to the trial section of the Oculus article, since that's where this case is best detailed on WP. MASEM (t) 23:38, 1 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.




[Closed] QE Prize for Engineering
[edit]






Unimproved. Stephen 05:08, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]






The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.









Article: Queen Elizabeth Prize for Engineering (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Michael Tompsett, Nobukazu Teranishi, Eric Fossum and George Smith are awarded the Queen Elizabeth Prize for Engineering for the invention and improvement of digital cameras  (Post)
News source(s): BBC TIME
Credits: 




Article needs updating
Nominator's comments: This is a relatively new prize (biannual and created in 2013, so the third time it has been awarded) but does seem to be top of the field of engineering. The topic is certainly important and digital cameras are of widespread utility and interest. One of current winners also received a share of the Nobel Prize in Physics a few years ago for the same breakthrough, but for the other three this appears to be the biggest prize they've won. The article needs tidying up and updating (I don't have time now but will take a look this evening) whilst those of each of the winners will also need attention. Modest Genius talk 15:23, 1 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]


The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.




    

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