Talk:1986 Pacific hurricane season

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1986 Pacific hurricane season has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
October 27, 2011	Good article nominee	Not listed
December 15, 2011	Peer review	Reviewed
August 4, 2012	Good article nominee	Not listed
November 22, 2012	Good article nominee	Not listed
March 16, 2013	Good article nominee	Listed
Current status: Good article

Todo[edit]

It needs at least a one sentence description of every storm to be a start.--Nilfanion (talk) 09:39, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

sentences have been added and the article now looks better with the grammar and punctuations done --Flavallee:Talk 12:27, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

The lead of the article is lacking. I'm not sure this article should be elevated to C class until it is expanded some. Thegreatdr (talk) 06:44, 22 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dead link[edit]

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

http://www.prh.noaa.gov/cphc/pages/hurrclimate.php#1986
- In 1986 Pacific hurricane season on 2011-05-25 05:18:34, 404 Not Found
- In 1986 Pacific hurricane season on 2011-06-07 12:16:09, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 12:16, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dead link 2[edit]

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

http://www.thehurricanearchive.com/Viewer.aspx?img=19509862_clean&firstvisit=true&src=search&currentResult=4&currentPage=0
- In 1986 Pacific hurricane season on 2011-06-07 12:16:23, 404 Not Found
- In 1986 Pacific hurricane season on 2011-06-24 06:36:48, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 06:37, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dead link 3[edit]

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

http://www.thehurricanearchive.com/Viewer.aspx?img=22273326_clean&firstvisit=true&src=search&currentResult=1&currentPage=0
- In 1986 Pacific hurricane season on 2011-06-07 12:16:23, 404 Not Found
- In 1986 Pacific hurricane season on 2011-06-24 06:36:56, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 06:37, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:1986 Pacific hurricane season/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Hurricanehink (talk · contribs) 04:39, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It needs a more interesting opening sentence, one that actually describes the season.
- Added. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Still pretty vague. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:34, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - Meh, the 1962 Pacific hurricane season, a GA by yours, has a similar opener.
Did the season really start those dates in 1986? The source only says that it currently is defined by those dates.
- Could not find anything saying they were not these dates. Should I remove this? YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane
  - Well, I wouldn't say you should remove it, but you should have some indication that the season length is what it currently is, if you can't find a contemporaneous one. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:34, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - Added but it looks weird now. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"There were four notable storms this year." - define notable
- Removed. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - But now it's missing some kind of flow in the sentences. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:34, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - Added a sentence back in. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
" In Newton, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration conducted an environmental research in to the cyclone" - wording could be tightened
- Any suggestions? YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Well, you say "In Newton" and "into the cyclone", for starters. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:34, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"The National Weather Service Field Service Station provided the East Pacific with excellent satellite coverage" - whose description says it was "excellent"? If no one, then you should pick a not-so-biased word
- the EPHC. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - So it's a quote? --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:34, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - Sorta. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Three tropical cyclones made landfall in 1986, with the worst effects in Mexico were from Roslyn." - with is not a conjunction
- Re-worded slightly. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Now, Roslyn is the only storm with damage in that paragraph. I still don't get the structure. Maybe move the landfalls to where you mention Estelle and Roslyn? --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:34, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"However, only one storm formed in the Central Pacific Hurricane Center's (CPHC) area of responsibility, Tropical Depression One-C" - however isn't appropriate here, since it doesn't contradict the previous sentence.
- Removed "however". Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The impact from Estelle and Roslyn in the season summary should probably be its own paragraph. I'm not really sure what structure you're going for in that section.
- Did the first part. I'm trying to include activity and impact along with the TD's.Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"In addition to 17 named storms, there were eight system during the season" - first, verb/noun agreement, and second, you need number consistency.
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Tropical Depression Seven began as a giant area of thunderstorms near the large Hurricane Estelle" - "giant" is wonky here, and was Estelle larger?
- Not sure. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Well, giant is a pretty POV word, and why mention the size if they're not relevant? --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:34, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - Any better?
" It strengthened into Tropical Depression Seven-E on July 17." - either that should be merged with the previous sentence, or something happened that I'm confused about. How could it strengthen into a TD?
- Merged, but TD 7E went from Invest to TD probs. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Moving at about 12–13 mph (19–21 km/h), Depression Seven-E" - why is the speed relevant? And why did you call it "Depression Seven-E"?
- Made it a more general statement, and on the second part, I want some variety :) YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - But "Depression Seven-E" wasn't its name. Seven-E isn't applicable either, since a number isn't a name. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:34, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Any better? Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Tropical Depression Eight began over 81 °F (27 °C) water on July 21 1,000 mi (1,600 km) southwest of the Baja California Peninsula." - comma is needed. And why the mention of the water temperature? Is that notable somehow?
- I want to give the reader on what the environment was like for Eight and I can't find a place to squeeze a comma. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - But is that environment relevant? And, mostly "over 81 °F (27 °C) water on July 21 1,000 mi (1,600 km)" is visually annoying. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:34, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yes IMO, and revised slightly. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Initially moving west-northwest around an upper-level high, the depression peaked with winds of 35 mph (55 km/h) and slowed down after turning to the west-northwest' - you mention WNW movement twice in one sentence
- Cut the last part out. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"A tropical disturbance first formed on July 24." - was that the same as TD 8? The current wording is ambiguous
- It's not since TD 8 is dead by that time. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - No, it says TD 8 dissipated on August 24, and another disturbance formed on August 24. The current wording makes it seem like they're the same system. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:34, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Better now? Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"The cyclone remained a steady state tropical depression for about three days before moving into the CPHC's area of responsibility. Tropical Depression Ten crossed 140°W at 1000 UTC July 27." - combine these
- Done. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 05:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Good except for "at 1000 UTC July 27". I'd love an "on" in there. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:34, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yeah, I thought of that all night. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"as the depression continued to move west at velocities as high as 30 mph (45 km/h)." - what does that mean? It was moving westward at 30 mph?
I think so. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Tropical Depression One-C was tracked westward along 11 °N at a fairly rapid forward speed of 35 mph (55 km/h) on July 27." - 11N doesn't help much, that could be anywhere in a 25,000 mile vicinity.
- Removed. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"It is likely that the depression was formed from the remnants of a tropical depression that had dissipated a few days earlier well to the east of 140 °W. " - which TD? And "was formed"...?
- Removed "was". Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

More later. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 04:39, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"An area of disturbed weather developed a circulation on August 12 and was respectively upgraded upgraded into Tropical Depression Twelve nearly 700 mi (1,100 km) south of the Baja California Peninsula." - why "respectively"?
Since the EPHC liked to declare storms when the got an LLC. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
" near 22 °N 110 °W on August 14" - TC articles generally avoid exact locations unless they're significant.
- Does not mean we can use it here :P Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane
"The final cyclone of the season formed from a tropical disturbance in the ITCZ.[1] The disturbance moved at about 10 mph (20 km/h). The disturbance was declared Tropical Depression Twenty-One at 0600 UTC September 19." - this could be combined into two sentences. Also, what direction did it move at? And 10 mph is 16 km/h, don't know where you got 20 k/h from. Also, you say it was the final cyclone of the season, but then you describe another TD after that.
- Fixed all. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"at 1800 UTC near the 140°W line" - that isn't the first time you mention 140 W, but that is the first time you link it. How come? Why didn't you mention earlier that CPHC's responsibility is between 140 and the IDL?
- It is now since I fixed the above. the CHPC's boundaries IMO is beyond the scope of this article. :P
"A low pressure trough extended a large area, making further development very unlikely." - I don't get what this means. I thought low-pressure trough were just areas of low pressures, so how would that preclude development?
- Re-wrote. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"The stationary storm had dissipated within 30 hours of formation" - does that refer to the trough or the TD? Wording is ambiguous.
- I think this issues fixed itself :P Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Even though no more official systems developed, the National Hurricane Center remarked that an unnamed tropical storm may have formed in November." - the NHC did not say that. It was one person, not the entire agency.
- Added that it was a forcaster. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane
As a blanket comment, make sure all units are properly formatted. Make sure if the first one is rounded, the second one is too. For miles, they should be rounded to the nearest 10, ditto km.
- Disagree with the second part, but most of them should be okay, It's worth nothing that the EPHC does not like to round units. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"the system was upgraded into Tropical Storm Agatha" - is "into" appropriate here?
- I guess. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane
Any impact from Agatha aside from rainfall?
- Nah. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"The rest of Mexico was hit by 1–3 in (25–76 mm) of rainfall." - it becomes redundant by this point. Any impact from the TD?
Meh, that's a problem with EPAC storms. No real impact, but I did find something that there was a aldslide in Mexico City that damaged 50 homes, but I have no proof it was from TD 2E. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"strengthening into the third tropical depression of the 1986 season" - is that appropriate? Systems don't generally strengthen into TD's in the EPAC
- Re-worded. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Winds reached 40 mph (60 km/h) on June 18, indicating that the depression intensified into Tropical Storm Blas." - winds reached, based on what?
- Removed the first part. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
" Later that day, its circulation had became well-defined enough to upgrade the disturbance into Tropical Depression Four-E." - the circulation upgraded itself?
- The EPHC did :P Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Winds reached 40 mph (65 km/h), upgrading the system into Tropical Storm Celia on June 26." - poor wording, same problem as Celia. The winds were likely estimated, so once they reached 40 mph the EPHC upgraded the TD to TS.
- Cela? You mean Blas :P but it's been fixed. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"The fifth tropical cyclone of the season, formed as a tropical disturbance on July 2" - why, the comma?
- Removed. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Moving at about 13 mph (21 km/h), the disturbance entered warmer water and strengthening rapidly. " - grammar, what direction was it moving, and how can a disturbance intensify rapidly?
- - It moved NW, of course, a disturbance can undergo RI. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane
"While clouds spread northward over the US states of Arizona and southern California on July 6; the cyclone dissipated on July 7" - while is inappropriate connector (since while implies it happened at the same time), and the semicolon is inappropriate since the first part is not a complete clause.
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"During the afternoon of July 16, a tropical depression formed, and within 12 hours it strengthened into a tropical storm" - where?
- In the middle of nowhere. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
" On July 18, Estelle intensified into a hurricane, and located in a favorable environment, Estelle continued strengthening to become the first major hurricane of the season on July 20." - avoid saying Estelle twice
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Source for 2012 USD in Estelle's section?
- It's a template. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"However, the only deaths reported were two drownings in Oahu that occurred on July 23 because of rough surf caused by Estelle" - only? Those were two of the only deaths in the season
- No, from the storm. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
" The storm quickly developed a well-defined eye and three hours later"... three hours after developing an eye?
- Yea. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't overlink. And watch where you're linking things. Frank's section has the second linkage of "sea surface temperatures", but you mentioned that several times previously.
- Fixed. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You sure Frank became extratropical?
- Yea. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You should include some of the WPAC history of Georgette, to be consistent with other basin crossers and including at least some of their whole history.
- Added a little more. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"A tropical wave crossed Southwestern Mexico and Belize in mid-August. A tropical disturbance developed about 52 mi (84 km) south of Acapulco on August 15" - was the disturbance the TW? And note the distance. How is it "about 52"? Such a random approximation.
- Removed "about". Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Rainfall along the southern coast reached 1 in (25 mm) in some places, with totals in excess of 5 in (130 mm) in isolated locations. Further north, rainfall was more scattered. The maximum rainfall was 9.25 in (235 mm) in Reforma, near the southern part of the country. In all, rainfall totals were recorded in over 2,000 locations." - first, why mention the "excess of 5 in", since you also mention the peak total? Also, what does the last sentence even mean?
- I'm sorry, but I don't see anything wrong here. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
" Satellite imagery began to show signs of developing a circulation, and the disturbance became a tropical depression." - when?
- on August 19. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 15:10, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Steadily moved towards the west over 85 °F (29 °C) ocean temperatures, the depression intensified into Tropical Storm Javier hours later" - bad grammar in the first clause, and hours later from when?
- Fixed. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 23:47, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Despite an increase in forward speed, Tropical Storm Javier underwent rapid intensification, reaching hurricane intensity at 0900 UTC August 21." - what does forward speed have to do with RI?
- Foast-moving storms are hard to undergo RI. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 23:47, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"A major hurricane is Category 3 or higher on the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale" - why would you mention this in the second MH of the season? And, before you even mentioned the storm became a C3!
- Removed. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 23:47, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Meanwhile, the storm's motions slowed and sharply turned towards the north and eventually towards the northwest" - poor start to a paragraph, what are "motions", and when was this happening?
- Re-worded. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 23:47, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You never say that Javier was a C4 the first time around
- Huh? Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 23:47, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Hurricane Javier had weakened directly into a Category 2 hurricane" - it weakened from C4 to C2?
- Yea, but it will likely be fixed in a few years. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 23:47, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There's no need to keep mentioning the exact water temperatures. It gets old.
- Removed one example. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 23:47, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Due to the former, 600,000 people went to the beaches" - what happened to the 600,000 people?
- Idk. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 23:47, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to stop here, since there clearly many issues with the article. It looks like it was rushed through to get to GAN. Just, a lot of the wordings in the article are confusing, and that is from someone who knows hurricanes pretty well. Try getting someone to copyedit it (GAN isn't meant for copyediting). Again, check wikilinks, redundancies, and stop worrying so much about what the EPHC said in their report :P There's no need to keep saying a disturbance formed on X day, since that'd be like mentioning every time in an Atlantic article when a storm was invested. Sometimes, you can just say "A tropical wave spawned a tropical depression on August X". Also, cut down on the water temps. Sorry, but I'm going to fail it. There are a lot of problems. It shouldn't take too long to fix though. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:34, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Its hardly rushed IMO, I made 100+ edits, sent it to a GAN and PR. On the disturbance part, I could see mentioning that for the ATl, all season articles should have a mention of origins IMO. I put the water temps in so the sections are not stubby short. After all, the ideal length for the season section is about the length of the infobox IMO. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 23:47, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

But every storm had the same origins, and almost every storm mentions the same water temperature. It becomes quite repetitive. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 12:55, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:1986 Pacific hurricane season/GA3. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk · contribs) 23:34, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It has been a while since I've reviewed an article, so I'm taking this one.

The opening sentence in the lede is extremely boring. Were there any interesting statistics or records set in the season to make it less bland?
- Nah, typical 1980's EPAC season. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 03:47, 11 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - But "moderately active" has no comparison, so the sentence means nothing. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:18, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - Well, this season was nothing. What do you suggest? Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Why the "As of 2012..." in the second sentence?
- Because that's the start date of a modern PHS. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 03:47, 11 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Can you find out when the season began under the EPHC tenure? --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:18, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - No. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Instead of saying "almost all" replace it with "most".
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 03:47, 11 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Several storms this year affect land." – The "this year" makes it sound more current. I'd revise to say, "Several of the tropical cyclones that developed during the season affected land." Also, instead of "For example", I'd list the month of when Estelle hit Mexico: "In [Month]..."
- Decline your suggestion, but fixed "this year". YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 03:50, 11 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - I disagree, TA's suggestion is a much more natural way to start the paragraph. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:18, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - There were more than several tropical cyclones in 1986, so theorefore, it is factually inaccurate. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"one short of the record set in 1982, which had 26 depressions." – Remove the original research.
- Not OR, it is scoured. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 03:47, 11 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Why not mention this record in the lede? --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:18, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Too trival IMO because this applies the only half the basin. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Hurricane Hunters also flew into three storms, Newton, Roslyn, and Estelle." – Replace the comma with a colon.
- Done. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 03:47, 11 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - He said colon, not semicolon. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:18, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
" Another storm, Hurricane Paine was described as one of the worst floods in Oklahoma history." – Add a comma after the storm's name.
- Why? Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 03:47, 11 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
" In addition, Hurricane Estelle came close enough to Hawaii to require a hurricane watch." – I would reword to read, "In addition, Hurricane Estelle passed within such close range of the island of Hawaii that a hurricane watch was eventually required"...or something like that.
- No, that makes it much worse. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 03:47, 11 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"The first, Tropical Depression Seven began as a large area of thunderstorms near Hurricane Estelle on July 17." – Same as above...add a comma after the depression's number.
- Why? Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 03:47, 11 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

More to come later. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 23:34, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am formally withdrawing this GAN. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 06:11, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am going to pass this review to Hurricanehink for completion. TropicalAnalystwx13 (talk) 16:17, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

He's already reviewed it the second time around and why did you remove my comment? Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 17:12, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm allowed to review more than once. And you shouldn't withdraw the GAN and then put up another GAN, without this failing. I'm reviewing this now. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:18, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Why not? Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Why don't you say how many hurricanes formed in the first paragraph of the lede? Saying "17 tropical storms and hurricanes" is unusual. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:18, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You should probably mention in the lede that Roslyn was the strongest storm.
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Can any of the season summary be put into the lede? Namely that first paragraph. You're allowed to put some material in the lede, if it summarizes the whole article and it's sourced.
- Most of the SS is a bit too indepth to go in the lead. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Also, the advisory time stuff is too trivial to go in the lead, and if the Eastern Pacific Hurricane Center article ever got expanded, it would be removed IMO. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 22:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The tropical depression section in the summary should probably be under a ===Tropical depressions=== at the bottom of the "storms" section. Also, why does TD 2E have a section but none of the others do?
- Same reason why some TD's have a section in the 2012 Pacific typhoon season and others don't. Therefore, a ===Tropical depressions=== section would not be accurate. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Activity in the Eastern Pacific Hurricane Center's (EPHC) area of responsibility was above average" - again, compared to what?
- Average. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Added a not of average in the lead. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 22:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"There were 25 tropical depressions, one short of the record set in 1982, which had 26 depressions" - remove the second "depressions"
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 22:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"The season began with the formation of Hurricane Agatha on May 22 and the dissipation of Tropical Depression Twenty Five-E on October 25" - you realize that means that the season began on May 22 and October 25, which implies two separate beginnings?
- I do. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
" it was six days longer than the long term average" - can you rewrite to avoid "longer/long"?
- I can, but is that the best option? No, the best is removed the words "long term":P Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"at a regular base 0000, 0600, 1200, 1800 UTC" - what do you mean "regular base"?
- Removed that part. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"A normal number of major hurricanes was also reported" - how many were there?
- Added. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"During the first two months of the hurricane season" - does that mean from May 15 to July 15?
- Better? Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
" Five storms formed in August, though only two of them impacted any land." - why the "though"? That implies something semi-contradictory, but I don't see what.
2 out of 5 is less than half, which while by ATL folks (who are most likely reading this article) is unusual. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
" $2 million (1986 US$; $4.24 million 2012 USD)." - why the inflation, and why the "US$"? You didn't mention it in a previous damage total.
- That's because the Paine damage total is in the lead, while Estelle's is not as it is not one of the costliest EPAC systems. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane
"Tropical Depression Eight began over 81 °F (27 °C) water" - why do you mention the water? What is the significance?
- Removed. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"on 1000 UTC July 27" - you should use "on" for a specific UTC time. "at" works fine.
- I do use "on". Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"continued to move west at velocities as high" - why do you mention (and link) "velocity" here?
- I think given that it was moving at a very fast pace, it's speed is important. Velocity is not that common of a term. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"It is likely that the depression was formed from the remnants of a Tropical Depression Eight-E that had dissipated a few days earlier well to the east of 140 °W." - remove the "was" and "had"
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"It passed well south of the Hawaiian Islands on July 28 with no noticeable effects on the island's weather" - you need to fix the noun agreement. "Hawaiian Islands" are plural, but "island's" is not.
- Removed. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"On July 29 at 0000 UTC, it had dissipated to the southwest of the Hawaiian Islands and the final advisory was issued." - remove "had", and either switch to dissipation, or mention somewhere that CPHC did advisories, since otherwise it's unclear who made the advisories.
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 22:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"An area of disturbed weather developed a circulation on August 12 and was respectively upgraded upgraded into Tropical Depression Twelve nearly 700 mi (1,100 km) south of the Baja California Peninsula." - please simply. Just say "Tropical Depression Twelve developed from an area of disturbed weather on August 12, about 700 mi (1,100 km) south of the Baja California Peninsula."
- No, but I did remove a word. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 22:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"north-west" - why the dash?
- It should not be in there anymore. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 22:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"near 22 °N 110 °W " - why the exact coordinates?
- Why not? Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 22:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Peak maximum sustained winds were estimated at 35 mph (56 km/h)" - why the lack of rounding?
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane
"Tropical Depression Seventeen formed on September 8 30 km (19 mi) east of Socorro Island " - the 8 and 30 next to each other is weird, and please round.
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane
"from a westward-moving tropical disturbance in the ITCZ." - link and explain what ITCZ is here, not in Blas's section. (unless you move the TD's to the bottom of the storm summary)
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 22:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"However the depression lasted a short time, only six hours, when it dissipated, likely due to the close distance between it and Tropical Storm Madeline" - simply
- Huh? Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
All around, please make sure units are properly rounded.
- Should be better now. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 22:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
" the circulation began to come together" - can you make that little more encyclopediac?
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 22:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Shortly thereafter, the cyclone made an abrupt change in direction, turning towards the north." - you should have mentioned beforehand that the system was moving to the southeast.
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane
Why did Agatha change directions twice?
- Idk. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
" but regained tropical storm strength on May 28 and again on May 29" - according to BT, Agatha only regained TS status once.
- I'm trusting myself here and that HURDAT is wrong. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 22:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Rainfall spread around both the Mexican coasts" - kinda weird, maybe clarify and say Atlantic and Pacific coasts?
"Xicotepec de Juarez" - where is this?
- Does not have an article. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"The disturbance became close to being stationary" - poorly written. Was it stationary or not?
- Re-worked. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 22:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Don't mention so much rainfall with TD 2E. Also, any impact from it? For that matter, any impact for Agatha?
- See the 2nd GAN. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 00:03, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"The depression intensified into Tropical Storm Blas the next dayt" - watch out for typos
- Should be okay now. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 22:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"becoming into the third tropical depression of the 1986 season" - remove "into"
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane
Watch for overlinking. " Gulf of Tehuantepec", "Socorro Island", "circulation" among others are linked too many times.
- Better? Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane
"Winds reached 40 mph (65 km/h), enough to the system into Tropical Storm Celia on June 26." - missing word
- Fixed. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane
"Hurricane Celia moved into much cooler water, weakening the storm rapidly" - weird writing
- Revised. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane

More later. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:18, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review, but as I said, this GAN is closed now (withdrawing). Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 17:26, 22 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:1986 Pacific hurricane season/GA4. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: 12george1 (talk · contribs) 23:16, 5 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Hurricane Estelle passed south of Hawaii, resulting in $2 million in damage and two deaths.[nb 1] Hurricanes Newton, Paine and Roslyn also struck Mexico." - Remove the word "also", since Hurricane Estelle did not strike Mexico.
- Good call, done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What was the total amount of damage and number of fatalities in the 1986 Pacific hurricane season?
- It is in the infobox. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"17 systems formed, two storms above normal" - You should probably add "which was" between the comma and "two".
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane
"during this time period;.[7] modern estimates place" - Why is there a period after the semi-colon?
- Fixed. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"1986 at 0.55 °C (32.99 °F) above normal." - Can you just round that up to 33°F?
- Blame the convert template. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - First of all, you could just removed the template and copy and paste that stuff, then change the 32.99 to 33. Second, there is something else really wrong with this. When that sentence is read, one could come to this conclusion: the SST's were almost 33°F above normal? So what, they were like 120°F?!?--12george1 (talk) 17:26, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    - Yea, not sure what to do here. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 17:54, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      - I think I took care of this. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:16, 7 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Just curious, why is there no timeline graphic? I will not hold it against this article if you chose not to make one.
- I think it is an option thing, especially with the WP:ACCESS debate still ongoing. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Rainfall spread around both the Atlantic and Pacific Mexican coasts, peaking at 10.75 in (273 mm) at Xicotepec de Juarez." - Last time your excuse was that no article existed for Xicotepec de Juarez. However, there is an article now. So, which state of Mexico is Xicotepec de Juarez in?
- The wikilink should say so. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"The worst rain was in Central Mexico, where over 15 in (380 mm) rain fell, peaking at 18.63 in (473 mm) in Tenosique." Two problems here. First, avoid saying "rain" twice in one sentence. Maybe substitute one of them with "precipitation"? Second, link "Tenosique" to Tenosique, Tabasco. Please leave the name of the state, too.
- This should be done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 17:54, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"becoming the third tropical depression of the 1986 season." - When did Blas develop? Was it later that day (referring to June 17) or December 2?
- XD. Fixed. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"a depression again as it moved into cooler waters." - Link "cooler waters" to sea surface temperatures.
- IIRC it is linked below. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Five days after Tropical Storm Blas dissipated, a tropical disturbance developed south of the Gulf of Tehuantepec. Later that day, its circulation had became well-defined enough for the EPHC to upgrade the disturbance into Tropical Depression Four." - Make sure you include a date in here somewhere, too.
- Added. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"the disturbance entered warmer water and strengthening rapidly." - "the disturbance entered warmer waters and strengthened rapidly."
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"the cyclone dissipated on July 7." - Capital "T" needed for the word "the".
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"On July 18, Estelle intensified into a hurricane, and located in a favorable environment, Hurricane Estelle continued strengthening to become the first major hurricane of the season on July 20 (Category 3 or higher on the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale)." - "On July 18, Estelle intensified into a hurricane. Located in a favorable environment, Estelle continued strengthening to become the first major hurricane of the season on July 20, which is Category 3 or higher on the Saffir–Simpson hurricane wind scale."
- Done. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - No, not done.--12george1 (talk) 17:26, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    - Should be now. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 17:54, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"began monitoring a tropical disturbance located 315 km (196 mi)" - Why isn't miles first? Also, round 196 to 195.
Made miles first, but did not do the second since the EPHC does not like to round units. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"southwest of San Salvador on 1800 UTC July 23." San Salvador, isn't that in The Bahamas?
- It's the capital of El Salvador. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Georgette could not maintain a closed circulation, and Georgette degenerated into a non-cyclonic disturbance." - "Georgette could not maintain a closed circulation and degenerated into a non-cyclonic disturbance on August 4."
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"where it reformed and reached its peak intensity as Typhoon Georgette.[2][3] Georgette merged with another system on August 16." - It is redundant to use "Georgette. Georgette". Maybe change the second sentence to "By August 16, Georgette merged with another system" or something similar?
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"A tropical wave crossed Southwestern Mexico and Belize in mid-August. A tropical disturbance developed 52 mi (84 km) south of Acapulco on August 15," - Wait, is this an accident, or did the tropical wave merge with tropical disturbance or vice versa? Or did the tropical wave become a tropical disturbance?
- Clarified. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 04:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Why is Javier's section in four paragraphs? You can easily condense it down to 2 paragraphs.
- Combined two. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 04:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"One of the few storms in 1986 to have major effect on the land, a tropical disturbance became the twentieth depression of the season on September 18." - That's kinda subjective to say "major effect", when the storm really didn't do any severe damage, not even the flooding in the United States. I think you should just ditch the first part of that sentence.
- Agreed. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 04:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Can you expand on impact from Newton a little? Maybe add the Mexico and U.S. peak rainfall total.
- It's impact is quite short. YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 04:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - FYI, I will add impact to Newton's article later today. I re-found links I lost when I wrote the article a few years back (yes, this GT has taken nearly two years). YE ^Pacific ^Hurricane 17:54, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    - Added some more. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:16, 7 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Tropical Depression Twenty-Four originated as a tropical disturbance which moved westward offshore Nicaragua." - What day did Roslyn develop?
- Added. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane
"Eric S. Blake, Ethan J. Gibney1, Daniel P. Brown, Michelle Mainelli" - What's which the "1" there?
- Removed. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 04:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Reference #35 is a deadlink.
Fixed. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 04:00, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

More: I respect the fact that you do not want to rubber-stamp this article. In addition to the comments below, I copyedited the article quite a bit. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 01:16, 7 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Eh, Blas' section is somewhat poorly worded and a little confusing. "Tropical Storm Blas formed on June 17 from a tropical disturbance that ..." "The depression intensified into Tropical Storm Blas the next day." So Blas became a tropical storm on both June 17 and June 18? Didn't think so. Reading on: "The EPHC ceased advisories on June 19 after Blas's convection dissipated[2] roughly 600 mi (970 km) south of Cabo San Lucas." Advisories were ceased after Blas's convection dissipated. That's sorta like a dangling modifier. I suggest re-wording it to "After convection dissipated, the EPHC ceased advisories on Blas by June 19, while situated roughly 600 mi (970 km) south of Cabo San Lucas." or something similar.
- did most of your suggestions and fixed the sentence. I have long thout for a year and a half to get some of this wording strait. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 17:54, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"During its duration, Celia had passed by Socorro Island." - You should probably put this closer to when Celia actually passed by Socorro Island, since there is no mention of impact.
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 17:54, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"During the afternoon of July 16, a tropical depression formed well away from land, and within 12 hours it strengthened into a tropical storm." - Hmm, "well away from land". Was this southwest of Mexico or the in the middle of the Indian Ocean?
- Added. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 17:54, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Satellite imagery began to show signs of developing a circulation, and the disturbance became a tropical depression and intensified into Tropical Storm Javier hours later." - What day(s) did all this happen?
- Added. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 17:54, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"This created a hazard for swimming, but excellent surfing conditions. High surf advisories were issued.[19] Some waves were as high as 15 ft (4.6 m). The increased swells coincided with an international surfing event and Labor Day Weekend.[20] Due to the former, 600,000 people went to the beaches.[21]" - You should re-order those sentences so it keeps the swimming and surfing portion together. A few of them can be merged together, too. Re-write it to this or something similar: "High surf advisories were issued due to waves as high as 15 ft (4.6 m) in some areas.[19][20] This created hazardous swimming during an international surfing event and Labor Day Weekend.[20] Due to the former, 600,000 people went to the beaches.[21]"
- I sorta did what you said. Couldn't not use your exact wording as it would mess up the refs. Your wording was good though. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 17:54, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I hope this won't be a Paine (pun intended), but it that storm's section, you use the word "Paine" in almost every sentence of the first paragraph. Additionally, there is three consecutive sentences starting with the word "Paine". Maybe you could cut down on that by alternative with "it", "the storm", or "the hurricane".
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 17:54, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Tropical Depression Twenty-Four originated as a tropical disturbance which moved westward offshore Nicaragua and was declared a depression on October 15." - Can you tighten this so it doesn't state that the storm developed twice and cut down on the uses of the words "tropical" and "depression"? Maybe you could instead say "A tropical disturbance moved westward offshore Nicaragua and was declared Tropical Depression Twenty-Four on October 15."
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 17:54, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
On second thought, ditch reference #35. It is unofficial and does not include all the 1986 names. I will let you use the list of names from 1992, 1998, 2004, or 2010 if you have to, as long as you also cite the retired named storms (this is to prove that the list is unchanged).
- Unofficial does not mean unreliable. Neither of those articles you named have sources for their names. I would add a list form a GN article, but I have not found a list of all the names thus far. What should I do? Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 17:54, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
On reference #1, change "Dorst Neal" to "Neal Dorst"
- Good call. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 17:54, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Why is there no link for the Eastern North Pacific Tropical Cyclones of 1986 source?
- None on WP:MWR, it's technically not needed, but I added it anyway. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 22:47, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Biondi, Franco; Gershunov, Alexander; Cayan, Daniel R." ----> "Franco Biondi, Alexander Gershunov, and Daniel R. Cayan"
- Done. Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 17:54, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
After you addressed most of the issues and I made a few edits myself, I will now pass with article and list it as a GA.--12george1 (talk) 04:18, 16 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Proposed merge of Hurricane Newton (1986) into 1986 Pacific hurricane season[edit]

While there is some impact here that makes Newton a bit notable, there isn't a lot of coverage here. I'd argue the season section would benefit from having this article's content merged into it since it seems to be a bit lacking currently. Noah, AA^Talk 14:33, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I believe this is expandable (IIRC) but the season section is short because there's a storm article :P Y E ^Pacific ^Hurricane 16:32, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support - if the article was expanded, I'd support keeping it, but there didn't seem to be much damage. The article even admits that damage was minor. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:57, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support merge – Though the hurricane meets the notability threshold, the article is rather thin. Its story could be fully told in the season article. Drdpw (talk) 20:32, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral While there certainly is a lot of impacts, I couldn’t find that much sustained coverage and even with the information I added there is a very good chance it could fit comfortably in the section. 108.58.37.250 (talk) 21:35, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Damage was only minimal, and the article is rather relatively bare. It could be easily summarized more in the season section. ~ Sandy 14156 (Talk ✉️) 20:30, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]