Talk:Samuel Barber/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Deleted references to sexuality

Why have all references to Samuel Barber's homosexuality been removed, including external links and categorization? The information is certainly pertinent as his same-sex relationships greatly impacted his career.--Kstern999 18:44, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree, it's pertinent, if for no other reason than his partner of many years was composer Gian-Carlo Menotti. Whoever deleted the references should have posted something on the talk page. When I have time I will try to go back and reconstruct something appropriate on the topic. Or someone else can go right ahead and give it a go. --WikkiTikkiTavi 05:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree in part. The question is whether "sexuality" is the issue or association. Here is a quote from Menotti's bio on Wikipedia: "Fellow students at Curtis included Leonard Bernstein and Samuel Barber, who became Menotti's partner in life and in work, with Menotti crafting the libretto for Barber's most famous opera, Vanessa, which premiered in 1958, at the Metropolitan Opera." There have even been(perhaps scurillous) references in many places about Bernstein's sexuality. 216.80.56.120 13:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)Hank Browne, Chicago. 26 March 2007.

Bernstein had many well documented affairs with young men, which has been written about in several articles.

I do not think Barber's homosexuality has any place in this article, and any items removed should remain out of the article. This is hardly pertinent, as Barber was first and foremost a composer, not a gay rights activist. Barber's sexuality was his own business, and claiming that his sexuality and relationships had significant bearing on his life and art is highly subjective. His relationship with Menotti should be mentioned in passing, but this obviously cannot be discerned in his music and therefore has no place in the article. -M. White, New Orleans, 6/07

The gay links and categories should either be removed or a reference to his homosexuality be added into the article. --TheSeer (TalkˑContribs) 06:07, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Of course biographical material is relevant. Barber, not simply his music, is the subject of the article. Dybryd 06:15, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

The question is, WHY is such information not relevant? There's no good reason to remove a known fact about a person from a biographical sketch of that person; it amounts to nothing more than selective censorship.--mujerado 04:54, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

M White's point is not valid and by consensus I think we can reinstate the references to his sexuality. Any one want to do it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.8.98 (talk) 15:36, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

M White here to clarify my point, 11/07. I have no problem mentioning as it is, Barber's lifetime professional and personal relationship with Menotti, as I said previously. What I objected to were previous implications (since deleted) that somehow Barber's sexuality and relationships could be discerned in his music. No encyclopedic article on Brahms would mention his madonna-whore complex, for example, or that his misogyny could be detected in his music. Likewise, saying Barber's relationships can be detected in his music is pure subjectivity. Such details, in my opinion, are best left to lengthy biographies, and have no place in an encyclopedia article. I have no issue with mentioning, in passing, Barber's sexuality; likewise, I do have issues with implying his sexuality had an influence on his music; it's akin to saying his Violin Concerto "sounds gay". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.150.5.101 (talk) 20:23, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I see Samuel Barber and Menotti presented as a gay couple, but is there indeed any evidence which proves that they were really gay?? I mean has any of their associates or friends said it publicly? Has Barber or Menotti confirmed this information publicly? If not, then how can you know that their alleged homosexuality isn't just a rumour? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.130.138.133 (talk) 02:32, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Through doing research. Hyacinth (talk) 02:31, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

So can we see this research? Where can someone find it?

Well, you're obviously online, and LeVar would suggest your find more at your local library. "Gian Carlo Menotti not only had a distinguished career, but also achieved acclaim at a time when his uncloseted homosexuality could have been a major barrier." - http://www.glbtq.com/arts/menotti_gc.html

Its easy to live in ignorance if you try. Hyacinth (talk) 00:58, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Read books about Barber - I suggest Barbara Heyman. Yes They did talk about it to colleagues, but obviously didn't publicise it since it was the 40s and 50s in the USA and not particularly socially acceptable in most circles.

This has to be one of the weakest biographical entries in Wikipedia on a major cultural figure. If other biographies include heterosexual references (wives, girlfriends, husbands, boyfriends, and lovers), there is absolutely no reason for the homosexual references to have been deleted here, and whoever did that should have explained themselves. Barber is a much more interesting person than this article lets on. I wish I had the time to work on it, not criticize it.

Please sign your posts on talk pages per Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages. Thanks! Hyacinth (talk) 01:13, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Not mentioning is evading! Hyacinth (talk) 00:48, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Opus List

Thanks for adding the dates to the complete opus list. Perhaps the 'list of notable works should now be deleted?

My suggestion would be that the list of notable works should be shortened a bit, and in due course the complete opus list should be moved to a separate page with a link on the main page. I believe this is how it is done at many of the more elaborate composer pages.

I have edited out those opus numbers which might be considered less important, and the remaining works I think would reveal a very representative and full picture of the composer. Chang things if you think it apt!

Looks very good to me. Have now moved the complete opus list to its separate page and linked it to the main page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Classickol (talk • contribs) 12:15, 21 April 2007 (UTC).

I do not think Adagio for Strings is featured in the film "A Clockwork Orange". Addendum 6/07: Confirmed that Adagio for Strings is not featured in film version of "A Clockwork Orange"; the writer obviously confused Barber's piece with the adagio from Rossini's Guillame Tell overture, which is used extensively in the film. -M. White, New Orleans, 6/07

Citations & References

See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 10:42, 31 January 2008 (UTC)